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Posted: 10/26/2011 5:00 PM
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CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (571)
Joined: 11/8/2010
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
AKheon wrote:
By the way, I noticed something small in this game the last time I played that might save time. If you go to the menu at the same time you enter a cutscene that starts with Mario walking to a certain spot (like the first cutscene after gaining control, meeting Goombella), after closing the menu Mario just appears at the spot, skipping walking there. Also, here's a vid of some small glitches me and Kazooie found. None of it has been tested in a frame-precise environment, so who knows if something good could still come out of 'em. Buffering entering a pipe was something especially interesting to us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZi-Rak9qUY
Thanks! That angled ledge trick might be useful somewhere else where you have to climb up (maybe to get to Bobbery's chimney faster). The paper effect glitch and walk backwards glitches would be nice if I were going for entertainment, but they don't appear to save time. That's a cool cutscene trick. I tested for about an hour on every one of those cutscenes to try and get Mario as close to Goombella as possible, but now I don't have to. I also tried pausing before I talk to Zess T. for the first time, but I can't skip her text boxes (I didn't try pausing before the contact lens though).
Posted: 10/27/2011 4:15 PM
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C13
Joined: 3/10/2011
Posts: 21
Awesome! It's very nice to see someone doing a TAS of this game. @CoolKirby: Have you set up a goal time for your run yet? Or you're just getting there.
Posted: 10/27/2011 4:53 PM
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CoolKirby
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
C13 wrote:
@CoolKirby: Have you set up a goal time for your run yet?
Miles said in the SDA forum for this game that a real-time speedrun would take about 6:20 for in-game time. My goal, with perfect luck manipulation and precise movements, is under 6 hours. I really hope it's possible. I really want to run this game, so I am going to try my best to finish. I can't wait to see the final product. It's a fairly easy 3D game to run, but it's still a very long game. Thanks for everyone's support! If anyone has any helpful glitches that could save time, please post them here. I'll post an encode of the Prologue once I've finished it.
Posted: 10/27/2011 8:06 PM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
How is it fairly easy?
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 10/27/2011 11:15 PM
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CoolKirby
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Joined: 11/8/2010
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
N. Harmonik wrote:
How is it fairly easy?
Easier than Super Mario Sunshine, in my opinion. Or any game like it.
Posted: 10/29/2011 1:23 PM
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jlun2
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Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4986
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Im not sure if you know this already, but during the first time the Shadow Queen becomes invincible, you have to attack her at least once, right? Well, you can save a turn if the audience, or a stage prop manages to attack her. It'll do no damage, but at least it counts as an attempt to attack her.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 10/29/2011 7:32 PM
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CoolKirby
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Joined: 11/8/2010
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
That's a good idea, jlun2. I should be able to manipulate that when I get to the Shadow Queen. AKheon, I managed to pause right as I step onto a space that triggers a cutscene (saving Goombella cutscene, Zess T.'s "Freeze!") but it doesn't seem to skip any part of the cutscene. Once I unpause, the cutscene plays out in full. Is there something I'm not doing right?
Posted: 10/29/2011 10:56 PM
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AKheon
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Location: Finland
(replayed from the start a bit) Sorry, it was the second cutscene after gaining control that I meant after all (where first fight begins). You can see that Mario automatically takes a few steps closer to the center if you run into the cutscene from the upper or lower edge of the pathway. That walk is skipped if you visit the menu at a correct moment. Since going to the menu is so slow, this trick likely won't save time by itself. But if in some point in the game you are forced to enter the menu (because of having to switch character for an upcoming fight for example), it'd be most convenient if you could leave the menu opening for a situation like this where you also skip a little bit of walking for example.
Posted: 11/16/2011 6:04 PM
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CoolKirby
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
Sorry this has been taking so long. I've been trying to manipulate Lord Crump's "PUNISH HIM!" message to appear quicker (for some reason, it comes up faster if you wait a few frames, jump a certain number of times, etc.). It's the only thing so far (from the beginning of the game to entering Rogueport Sewers for the first time) that changes from attempt to attempt (no idea why). Manipulating it is pretty annoying, but I will not give up (my conscience wouldn't let me submit something I know is suboptimal). I'll post an encode of the Prologue when I finish it.
Posted: 11/16/2011 6:50 PM
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TheKDX7
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Location: Switzerland
Good luck CoolKirby! :)
Posted: 11/16/2011 7:20 PM
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CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (571)
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
TheKDX7 wrote:
Good luck CoolKirby! :)
Thanks! I'll finish the Prologue (and the game, for that matter) as soon as I can so everyone isn't waiting too long. :)
Posted: 11/17/2011 5:38 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
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Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
CoolKirby wrote:
Sorry this has been taking so long. I've been trying to manipulate Lord Crump's "PUNISH HIM!" message to appear quicker (for some reason, it comes up faster if you wait a few frames, jump a certain number of times, etc.). It's the only thing so far (from the beginning of the game to entering Rogueport Sewers for the first time) that changes from attempt to attempt (no idea why). Manipulating it is pretty annoying, but I will not give up (my conscience wouldn't let me submit something I know is suboptimal). I'll post an encode of the Prologue when I finish it.
You may want to check out if it's a frame rule. (only shows up every multiple of x frames)
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 11/17/2011 5:55 AM
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CoolKirby
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Whatever it takes to manipulate it, it's really strange. The weird thing is, everything up to the X-Nauts surrounding me always takes the same amount of time, except for Lord Crump's speech bubble after the X-Nauts stop moving. If I waste 0 frames before I enter the battle (Lord Crump stops in front of me on earliest frame possible, 9889), I can dismiss the "PUNISH HIM!" speech bubble on frame 11997 (with everything else being optimal until that point). If I jump next to Goombella with a method that is 2 frames slower before I enter the battle (Crump stops on frame 9891), I can dismiss the message on frame 11988. And from my previous attempt in which I was 3 frames slower, Lord Crump stopped in front of me on frame 9892 and I could press A to dismiss "PUNISH HIM" on 11985 (best so far). I'm not sure why this is, but I'm still testing waiting different numbers of frames before battling and entering the battle different (slightly slower) ways.
Posted: 11/17/2011 7:21 PM
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2373)
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Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
【TAS】ペーパーマリオRPG WIP 【Part1】 (Uploaded by NoRee) Account | Account2 | Free He didn't add duplicate frames so the audio desyncs. (Sometimes there are frames that take longer than 1/60th of a second but those frames will only last for the duration of 1/60th in a recorded AVI. You have to add duplicate frames.) And he didn't use precise angles so he moves only horizontally, vertically and diagonally. He said in his description that he got a desync.
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Posted: 11/17/2011 8:37 PM
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CoolKirby
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
Looks like there are still some slight graphical glitches with the Japanese version of the game (Rogueport appearing before Mario opens his eyes). I don't know why the TASer didn't even press Start as early as possible at 0:07 or speed through the text boxes. A desync doesn't excuse the suboptimal walking in the harbor.
Posted: 11/18/2011 12:22 AM
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C13
Joined: 3/10/2011
Posts: 21
Is there any chance you could upload it to Youtube also? I really love the progress. :)
Posted: 11/18/2011 12:43 AM
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CoolKirby
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
C13 wrote:
Is there any chance you could upload it to Youtube also? I really love the progress. :)
That is exactly what I plan to do. My encode will be audio-synced and 480p, too. I plan to post the Prologue and at least the first two chapters on YouTube before I finish and submit.
Posted: 11/18/2011 8:22 AM
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MUGG
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Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
Part1 has been uploaded here: http://www.youtube.com/user/0Jwn The emulation errors and desyncs may be caused because he used an older version of Dolphin.
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Posted: 11/18/2011 5:58 PM
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CoolKirby
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
I think it's just because the US version is emulated better. I'm guessing it's because most emulation fixes were for the US version, except the Bounding Box bugfix. If anyone knows of any helpful glitches in the Prologue, please let me know through a post in this thread. EDIT: I think I figured out the speech bubble problem. Like what OmnipotentEntity suggested, it does appear to be on a kind of frame rule. If a certain action (first gaining control of Mario, walking up to Goombella, etc.) is one frame faster or slower, the game will add a certain number of lag frames to keep times consistent (though a saved frame is usually met with a few frames of extra lag). I saved 1 frame over my previous attempt from r7719 before Lord Crump's "PUNISH HIM!" bubble, but though I use the same route for running from the X-Nauts, I still enter Rogueport's main courtyard on the same frame. I don't think I can save any more frames, so now I'm free to move on to the rest of the game!
Posted: 11/21/2011 8:47 PM
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NMeade
Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 7
Excellent. Definitely a run I've been dying to see done for such a long time (along with others probably). For overall routing, a good place to start could probably come from the routes players have made who have run the game on SDA. Hopefully emulation problems/errors won't prevent you from completing the whole run. Good luck.
Posted: 11/21/2011 10:35 PM
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CoolKirby
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Joined: 11/8/2010
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Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
NMeade wrote:
For overall routing, a good place to start could probably come from the routes players have made who have run the game on SDA.
Miles was nice enough to link me to his route (which was planned for a real-time speedrun, but it works for a TAS too). It's an almost perfect route (I haven't found anything improvable yet) and I will definitely be using it. It's really great that TASers and speedrunners get along so well now, or else I might not have ever seen this route.
NMeade wrote:
Hopefully emulation problems/errors won't prevent you from completing the whole run. Good luck.
Thanks! I think all of the emulation glitches have been fixed, including the graphical ones, so I should be able to complete it.
Posted: 12/4/2011 10:34 PM
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Michael_mario1
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 33
Location: Australia
The run is looking good. it's great to see the progress being made on this game. I can't wait to see the finished product
Posted: 12/8/2011 6:26 PM
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CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (571)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
I hate to keep everyone waiting longer, but I'm currently waiting for someone (probably Toad King) to fix the read-only toggle in Dolphin so that production of my movie will take significantly less time (not having to play my eventually 5+ hour TAS every 2 minutes to check for desyncs at 45% speed). I paused the TAS after beating the three Goombas ("Goomba Gang"?) in Rogueport Sewers, so the Prologue should be about 3/8 done, if I've estimated correctly.
Posted: 12/8/2011 7:48 PM
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Wak017
Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 128
Location: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada
The read-only mode will significantly help any GCN TASes in the future, as I looked around and no interesting game can be done in less than an hour for now.
Taming Dolphin, one frame at a time
Posted: 12/8/2011 9:00 PM
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CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (571)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
Wak017 wrote:
The read-only mode will significantly help any GCN TASes in the future, as I looked around and no interesting game can be done in less than an hour for now.
Well, a 1+ hour TAS without read-only mode can be done, but given how desync-prone Dolphin is and how often you have to check for desyncs, I don't know what sane person would. It just takes WAY too long.
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