You make me happy, alden :)
It's not just ponies that come to TASvideos after all!
I just love how all mainstream media here is completely silent about these protests (it has mentioned them some rare times, but in a derogatory way). It's in moments like this that we see the hypocrisy of the idealism of our modern world, who screams for their free speech yet try to impose their stupid pragmatic view on everyone else, while they can keep everything the way they want it. Congratulations, I never expected such a big leftist protest in the US!
I'd love to be there, but I can't :( All I can do is change the location on my profile, sorry :(
I'm aware of that (didn't see the video, I'm in a rush now). I've almost been arrested in one protest I've attended here for no reason also (hid just in time lol). Didn't stop me from attending others :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Can one hope that this movement is something that will lead into greatness and something that mankind needed for the past 100 years?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
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Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Corruption in the United States, basically.
Banks traded bad loans with each other, leading to the housing collapse and recession. Bankers got bailouts and pay bonuses while the majority of Americans suffered. Politicians are getting campaign contributions from corporations, so they pass legislation that will let the same thing happen again.
Occupy Wall Street wants accountability for the dodgy trading that led to the recession, and might lead to another one.
It's essentially a protest against the current economic policy of the US and the influence that big companies have on politics, the issues are likely related. Many news vehicles have tried to label the protests as anti-capitalist or say that they have no goal whatsoever.
They are basically protesting that in 2008 the government spent a lot of public money to save banks that lost huge amounts of capital because of market speculation and has a huge debt now. The congress has failed to take fast action and pass laws to attack the problem because of political rivalries, and has refused to change its external policy, that drains a lot of money daily (troops are still in Iraq, the intervention of NATO in Lybia, etc) and instead wants to cut money from areas like health care and public transport.
That may be a little inaccurate, because I heard from friends, I'd like to link to something more reliable, but media is ignoring these protests, and articles are hard to find.
Simplifying even more, it's the lower middle class getting angry at being forced to pay lots of taxes to support corporate interests and getting little in return. Something similar to what we're facing here in Brazil, FODA? :D
P.S.: And since I mentioned anti-capitalism, as much as I hate Karl Marx's historical materialism ideas, it seems he has a good point, if you complain about something when the economy is strong, nobody cares, but when things start getting ugly, it's a different story...
I can absolutely sympathize with the protesters frustration, but I've heard some really scary stuff coming out from some of them. Perhaps this is just media spin, but I will not support a group that by and large want to get Obama re-elected, pass his jobs bill, or propel the "Buffett Rule." The current administration is the epitome of Wall Street, and anyone there who supports it is clearly misguided.
Capitalism is not the problem; corporatism is. If the group wants to discuss the real issue, they should talk about the Federal Reserve, but the only video I've seen talk about it ends with a couple naysayers. This could easily be attributed to ignorance, but my man Alex Jones claims its been co-opted, which wouldn't surprise me. In any case, Michael Moore's comments at the protest disgust me.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Well then, I've fallen prey to the media tactic of labeling the protest simply as anti-capitalism. There are people in wall street holding signs that say "capitalism doesn't work", which helps support that. Also, people are posting anti-capitalism stuff on my facebook page. Imagine my rage, now they're gone too far.
I'm all about capitalism. People have to work and it's the best way to make them work without simply forcing them. It also matches best how the world has worked since life began. It's a freedom based model. Anything other than that sounds utopic and not practical to me... Ipads don't fall from heaven. If the corporate jerk with 3 trillion dollars on his bank account has that much money it is because he delivered something people were willing to pay for. People have forgotten that money doesn't create goods, it simply represents value on a trade system. A trade system based on people creating value. You can't have everyone sitting on their butts at home eating and watching tv, they have to work to earn the goods. The beauty is that if you don't want to be a part of capitalism you can go live in the country without an ipad, growing your vegetables and have no electricity.
Of course, the model has its imperfections and it's not always fair. What I'm saying is that anarchy is not a solution, and whining also isn't.
Protesting against some corporation or the government running over people's rights is something that has to be done. If that's what they're doing in wall street, there's noone in their right mind that would be against it. Just don't mix "we demand justice" with "the system is the problem". Not everyone agrees with that.
Sorry about the rant, I like my system and clean facebook page :P
Of course some of the protesters are protesting against capitalism as a whole. A protest is hardly ever a homogeneous mass though, so you can't just look at some signs and listen to some interviews and decide that's what the protest is about. For those people it may be about that, but everybody has their own reasons. I'd just say the general level of unhappiness with the US government's past decisions is pretty high. And that's a good thing, as it surely has been a long time since it has last acted in the interest of the average citizen when it comes to big decisions. Almost exclusively in corporate interest as far as I can tell.
Link to video
Just to clarify, by "The democratic system is just not functioning" he most certainly specifically means the system in the US and I'd agree with him on that.
Just to clarify, by "The democratic system is just not functioning" he most likely specifically means the system in the US and I'd agree with him on that.
Probably not, since it's Noam Chomsky talking, arguably the most influential leftist intellectual in the world and a self-proclaimed anarchist and libertarian socialist, so he's possibly referring to the democratic system as the act of attributing the power to the majority's decision, since he opposes any form of state power in general.
Oh, and thanks for the video btw.
The vibe I get from him is that he thinks that democratic systems can indeed function, but only if there are strong regulations and public participation. I've even heard him saying that purely capitalist systems could probably function, such a system just has never been implemented. It's true that he's a leftist, a self-proclaimed anarchist and in his ideal world there'd be no forms of concentrated power at all, but that doesn't mean he thinks that other systems couldn't function properly as well. Btw, in his proposed version of anarchy there'd be pretty high levels of public organization, just so that nobody gets the wrong idea. It'd be a mistake to just mark him down as a random lunatic. (that's what the media likes to do with anybody who has some leftist ideas, and that's why i'm getting so overly defensive)
Edit:
I sadly couldn't find any relevant quote regarding his views on democracy by browsing his homepage (I only did a very quick search), but if you just listen to the first minute of [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OP2YXKIFs]this[/URL] speech (disregard the rest), and to [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBC_XICK7i0#t=0m20s]this interview[/URL], I guess it makes it hard to imagine that Chomsky would be against absolutely every kind of democratic system in the world.
Fair enough, I have difficulties understanding how he could think that two completely divergent systems could work, especially reading some stuff from him years ago regarding means of production and things like that. Perhaps he has softened throughout the years, I don't know...
And after reading my post again, if anyone got the impression that I said that he was a leftist and anarchist to try to invalidate what Chomsky said, it's wrong. I don't consider those terms offensive nor have anything against people who think like him. I just said it to justify why I interpreted what he said like I did.
Your credibility went just down the toilet with that comment.
FODA wrote:
Well then, I've fallen prey to the media tactic of labeling the protest simply as anti-capitalism. There are people in wall street holding signs that say "capitalism doesn't work", which helps support that. Also, people are posting anti-capitalism stuff on my facebook page. Imagine my rage, now they're gone too far.
I'm all about capitalism.
Perhaps they oppose the form of capitalism that is enacted in the US. You know, the form of capitalism where big corporations basically get to decide who gets into congress, and in turn congress gives all kinds of irrational benefits to big corporations while at the same time discriminating workers and depriving them of basic rights (I think it's a travesty that there are some states where labor unions are illegal; what kind of banana republic totalitarian dictatorships are they? Workers also lack all kinds of other forms of protection; for instance, employers can fire employees at a whim, at any time, for any reason, without notice, effective immediately, and there's nothing the employee can do about it.)
Your credibility went just down the toilet with that comment.
Your ad hominem is a valid argument.
Alex Jones Facebook Page wrote:
Does this website (http://occupywallst.org/) really represent OWS activists?
The front page announces its "solidarity" with MoveOn.org, an Obama campaign front group.
Obama's 2008 campaign was financed by Wall Street (Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citigroup). His 2012 campaign is even more reliant on Wall Street.
AFL-CIO and SEIU have also aggressively lobbied for the (Wall Street-financed) Obama campaign, and yet this website also announces its support for them.
Why is a website that claims to represent anti-Wall Street demonstrators siding with groups that have aggressively supported the Wall Street-backed Obama administration?
I am really keen to find out if genuine OWS activists are also Obama supporters, and whether or not they are pleased about this website making alliances with Obama front groups.
And no, I am not a Republican. Wall Street has thrown its weight behind Mitt Romney too. I am genuinely interested in how people feel about this.
