Posted: 3/20/2011 3:58 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
Post subject: Policy on cracked games
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Phallosvogel
Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 334
Since PC tasing adds a whole new spectrum of games to this community, there should be a discussion about cracked games, especially in terms for DOS games. Back then because of the lack of technical possibilitys for proper copy protection, many games resulted to code books. The game would ask for a certain code on a certain page and you wouldnt have been able to play the game unless you entered correctly. So these cracks removed the copy protection portion of the game or made the game accept whatever you would enter. As we face PC tasing nowadays we should state, what point of view this site has on these cracks. The problem as I see it: PRO: - Many games are hard to come by these days, some only on eBay for expensive prices. Even if you get an uncracked version it probably might not be the version you are looking for. And even if you manage to get your hands on a expensive floppy or whatever copy of the game, you cant expect the viewers to go through the same trouble you did to get the movie to run, can you? - These codesheets are probably gone by now, unless you kept yours back then which is highly unlikely. Using cracked games you wouldnt have to deal with this. CON: - Apart from the obvious copyright infringement, the crack would skip a part of the game the programmers inteded you to do. So a cracked version will always be faster then an original one. - It aint the original version of the game, which could count as a hack in ROM terms. I really think we need a well thought decision on this one, because as time passes PC TASing sure will evolve. Also beacuse the crack-problem is mostly PC only, console games didnt seem to need that kind of protection.
Posted: 3/20/2011 4:05 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
Or we could hack apart the game that needs TASing to find the codes needed to unlock the game. What better way to pirate something then to feed it the code it very much asks.
Posted: 3/20/2011 4:27 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I remember Kabuto raised concerns about this and a few other issues regarding Commodore 64 games. Crackers can make you have to wait through an obnoxious intro and clear a cheat menu, and even beyond that might possibly introduce or remove bugs or change some timing ever so slightly so that a barely-impossible trick becomes possible. Plus with tape-loading games you have variances in how much loading delay was transferred... But in the interest of getting as many good games on the TAS scene as possible, I think we could consider relaxing the "ROM must be good" rule in cases where it would be practically impossible to locate a non-cracked non-degraded copy of the original game. Perhaps the community could examine all the available copies before starting a TAS and come to an agreement on the cleanest one. It may not be 100% authentic, but what is?
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Posted: 3/20/2011 4:38 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Rather than have a big discussion full of hypotheticals, why not wait until we get our first example game where someone wants to use a cracked version, so we have something concrete to base our arguments on? Not that I would ever try to prevent this forum from having an argument, mind you.
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Posted: 3/20/2011 5:52 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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True
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 1/18/2008
Posts: 663
Does the hypothetical crack add entertainment? This is the absolute most important question.
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Posted: 4/15/2011 5:44 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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Xarthok
Joined: 4/2/2007
Posts: 68
Location: Latvia
I have an example - Prehistorik 2. I haven't been able to find a version without the Hybrid crack intro.
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Posted: 4/15/2011 11:55 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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Warepire
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Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I'd say we should consider the uncracked games the same way we treat verified good dumps of roms. (The [!] marked roms incase someone don't know)
Posted: 8/29/2011 3:27 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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henke37
Editor
Joined: 3/10/2010
Posts: 899
Location: Sweden
There is little point in worrying about removing code entry screens. That just isn't needed since we are capable of providing the correct code.
Posted: 8/30/2011 8:25 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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Phallosvogel
Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 334
We sure are, but it would still require at least a few frames to actually enter the code. So it would be impossible to reproduce on a "clean" system
Posted: 8/30/2011 8:59 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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Saethori
Joined: 6/26/2011
Posts: 167
Yeah, it'd take a few frames to input a required "owner verification" code. But for the purposes of game accuracy, it's required, and nevertheless a better option than the alternative: using a crack that risks introducing unknown bugs and variances into the game. At the very least, we'd need to make sure that, if we use a cracked version, that the same inputs result in the same actions for given situations regardless of version, and that the only actual difference is the lack of copy protection.
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats. Yay, favoritism.
Posted: 8/30/2011 9:46 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:57 PM)
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amaurea
Former player
Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 424
Location: UK
We had a discussion about something similar some time ago, and there the input of codes like these were identified as one of the possible obstacles for windows game TASing, since distribution of these codes may be problematic. This is especially relevant if you are TASing the installation process of the game itself. But if you can assume that the game has been installed and activated already this issue would mostly disappear.