1 2
Posted: 9/30/2009 2:13 PM
Post subject: Cool Spot: Shameless self-advertising at its coolest
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Cool Spot, for those of you lucky enough not to have experienced the "cola-wars" of the 80s and 90s, is the mascot of 7-up, the response to cola drinks (they referred to lemon-lime flavored sodas as "uncola"). The definition of "cool" in the 90s was subject to interpretation, despite no one actually BEING cool back then. Someone decided that this little red guy named Spot would attract the kids to the soda. I never drank it but I actually liked this game a lot. And hey, Spot is at least cooler than Bubsy. Anyway, I've done about four revisions of the first level, each time improving and realizing that this game might actually be a good candidate for TASing. This happened when I figured out how to preserve Spot's speed, which is actually fairly fast. HERE is the WIP of the first level, still improvable (especially after the death). I did go for 100% cool, which isn't actually necessary. There's three possible runs: A) 100% cool on each level + "Best" ending B) any% cool on each level + "Best" ending C) Just save the spots and beat the game The "Best" ending comes when you collect all the bonus letters (U-N-C-O-L-A) which are obtained from the bonus game. To get into the bonus game, I need to attain at least 99% "cool" on any given level, meaning I would choose the six fastest levels to do this on, one for each letter. Getting 100% cool on each level doesn't give you anything extra, I don't think, other than the satisfaction. To get the normal ending, I just have to meet the "cool" quota in each level and then rescue my buddy at the end. A vast number of the game's levels are actually quite different from each other, especially from a TASing point of view. This first level kinda sucked, due to the somewhat slower balloon parts. Some of the later levels will most likely be done faster, and some slower (there are many vertical levels with ropes and such, and there's even a level where Spot is sliding down rails very fast and the player doesn't have too much control). Anyway, what do people think?
My Backloggery
Posted: 9/30/2009 2:18 PM
Quote
funnyhair
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
Isnt just save the spots and beat the game the same thing as any%? if not , what is the difference?
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Posted: 9/30/2009 2:24 PM
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
You're talking about option B vs. C right? I guess I should clarify a little: Option C has me skipping all bonus levels. In this way I would only get the normal ending. Another factor: the differences between the endings are minimal. The "Best" ending is merely an extra screen that tells you you've won a contest. You're supposed to take your picture next to this screen and send it in or something. I wish I still had my instruction book with the contest details because I would TOTALLY do it.
My Backloggery
Posted: 9/30/2009 2:27 PM
Quote
funnyhair
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
Hm.... this looks interesting, when im done with the Maui Mallard improvement I may look into it. It also seems like you used tow players at the same time? or was that the second controller?
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Posted: 9/30/2009 7:00 PM
Quote
Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
I suggest going for the best ending, for no other reason than to see you optimize the bonus levels, which are a nontrivial amount of additional content. I'm not convinced that 100% is a worthwhile goal though. I say get enough cool points to get each bonus level, and then in the bonus levels themselves, try to get the letter and then suicide as quickly as possible.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 9/30/2009 8:17 PM
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Heh, it counts if you suicide out of the level? I'd never tried that. On that note I guess this is only possible in the later bonus levels that have the spike bubbles. In the early ones I'd have to collect all the cool points to end the bonus early.
My Backloggery
Posted: 9/30/2009 9:07 PM
Quote
Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Um...actually, I don't remember if it counts. I'd guess so, though, since the alternative is "dying" by running out of time. Still worth checking, of course.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 9/30/2009 10:12 PM
Quote
MezzoDragon
He/Him
Joined: 5/27/2007
Posts: 120
100% runs are always fun to watch. At least I consider them fun to watch.
Posted: 9/30/2009 11:15 PM
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
As far as the any% run vs. 100% run debate goes, there's a few things running through my mind: - You have to get at least 90% cool points on each level either way, and 99% on six of the eleven levels for the bonuses. This probably means that the time difference in the main level between these two movies would be about a minute, I'd say. - The major time saver in the any % would be suiciding out of the bonus levels. - The any% run would require some tedious planning. You'd have to figure out which six levels to get 99% cool points in (not too hard), but then you'd have to figure out in the remaining levels which of the cool points (10% worth) could be skipped (which might be a terror in some of the more non-linear levels).
My Backloggery
Posted: 9/30/2009 11:39 PM
Quote
Noob_Irdoh
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
100% is more better. I always like 100%. And this is 90% or 99% or 100%. Make it more fun. I shall vote yes.
Posted: 10/1/2009 10:10 AM
Quote
Kumquat
Player (122)
Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 73
Location: Texas
ElectroSpecter wrote:
The "Best" ending is merely an extra screen that tells you you've won a contest. You're supposed to take your picture next to this screen and send it in or something. I wish I still had my instruction book with the contest details because I would TOTALLY do it.
I remember that contest! I also remember being upset that it ended before I got the game... According to this thread, it ended at the end of 1993 and the prize was a small Cool Spot figure.
Posted: 10/1/2009 11:52 AM
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Kumquat wrote:
According to this thread, it ended at the end of 1993 and the prize was a small Cool Spot figure.
I wonder if that was the grand prize or if that guy was just a runner up. Thanks for posting this though, as I couldn't find any information on it myself!
My Backloggery
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:31 AM
Quote
Zeupar
Joined: 5/14/2007
Posts: 525
Location: Pisces-Cetus filament
I would enjoy a good TAS of this game. The first option of your list would be preferable.
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!
Posted: 8/18/2011 9:47 PM
(Edited: 8/19/2011 1:28 AM)
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Here is what I've been working on. It's a really rough run at this point, I basically was doing it for route planning purposes. There are some glaring errors that I'm well aware of, as well as parts that I played in real-time because I got frustrated with health management. I'm having issues deciding between which version to TAS, however (SNES vs. Genesis): Genesis pros: - Spot's max speed is 50% 66.66% faster than the SNES version - You can keep your speed when changing direction, which is a HUGE advantage over the SNES - ... and I prefer the music of the Genesis version. SNES pros: - Graphics - Can shoot 4 bubbles instead of 3. Many enemies have 4 HP, and in the Genesis version you have to shoot these enemies 3 times and wait a considerable amount of time to shoot the final bubble. In most cases this means you'll get damaged before being able to kill the enemy, which totally sucks, making the SNES version far superior in this aspect. - Spot moves 50% faster when jumping off a rope (or shoelace or whatever) - In Toying Around, certain floors don't randomly kill your speed like in the Genesis version I feel that in the end it might be a good idea to do a rough TAS of both once routes are solidified and see which one is actually faster and / or more entertaining. EDIT: Changed max speed
My Backloggery
Posted: 8/19/2011 12:16 AM
Quote
Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Given those pros/cons, I'd lean towards the Genesis version; faster max speed and instant turning seem like they'd make up for the occasional necessary damage or slowdown to dodge. Are you going to go 100%? I always liked the bonus stage music in this game. <3
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 8/19/2011 1:22 AM
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Yes, 100% is the plan, even though 100% on every level isn't necessary for the best ending. Also, here's a crappy encode of the WIP: Link to video
My Backloggery
Posted: 8/19/2011 1:29 AM
Quote
erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
I can't view that video because it is private to me. "This video is private."
Posted: 8/19/2011 12:55 PM
Quote
Espyo
Joined: 6/7/2008
Posts: 124
Location: Portugal
I love the WIP. I'd rather you TAS the Genesis version because... it's the one I grew up with... Hehe. I don't remember much of the speed tricks I used to do when I used to play this, but the ones I do remember are already used in the current WIP. The only info I can give is that in the PAL version, "UNCOLA" is "VIRGIN", not that that's helpful. Also, in the 4th special stage, I think it's faster to collect the final 7 points (in that 7-up pickup) right away. And just what is wrong after you die in Toying Around (at 91% cool)? You walk slowly, you stop to kill enemies... What, did you just stop the WIP there and decided to goof around, or...?
I'm Espyo from the SRB2 Forums. Current project: A Pikmin fan engine, Pikifen
Posted: 8/19/2011 2:09 PM
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Espyo wrote:
Also, in the 4th special stage, I think it's faster to collect the final 7 points (in that 7-up pickup) right away.
Definitely agreed. I actually forgot about it at the beginning and just picked it up at the end. There are all sorts of errors of this sort in the WIP, but again this is a really rough draft.
Espyo wrote:
And just what is wrong after you die in Toying Around (at 91% cool)? You walk slowly, you stop to kill enemies... What, did you just stop the WIP there and decided to goof around, or...?
Yes, that was real-time. This level was hard to plan a route for and right at the end I realized that it would have been faster to take the top-most route, die, and then take the route right under that one, starting from the flag pole but I was too lazy to fix it before posting it.
My Backloggery
Posted: 8/20/2011 4:20 AM
Quote
Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (931)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Awesome, another game from my childhood, I enjoyed the WIP so far. I also thought the same thing at the end of the vid. I thought the run desynced at first, but I realized it didn't. I won't comment on improvements as you said it was a rough draft of sorts, but I will say I'm happy to see this game being TASed!
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 8/20/2011 11:01 AM
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Well, I wouldn't want to shrug away any suggestions. I'll quickly try to sum up the major mistakes that I know of: First bonus level: - Near the beginning I jump at two bubbles for apparently no reason. I did this to remind myself later that I should slightly change the route - Soon after this there's another minor route change needed Pier Pressure: - There can definitely be better health management, meaning I can run through some of the later enemies and save some time - I can pick up those final spots a bit differently at the end near the cage and save some time Second bonus level: - It might be faster to change the route up a little, specifically, picking up the bottom right spot first, or changing things up a little up at the top Off the Wall - This is easily the worst level I've TASed so far, and I'm not looking forward to polishing it up or doing the second wall level; there's some obvious real-time play at the end because of poor health management. I may end up just killing Spot halfway through and see if that saves time. There's not much to say of the route, it's pretty linear. Fourth bonus level: - This has already been mentioned, but it most likely saves time to grab the 7up in the bottom left as soon as the level begins Toying Around - I feel the route is pretty solid up until the flagpole near the ribbon and the stupid little ball thing. I'm planning on taking the very top route as soon as I reach this ribbon and then I'll kill off Spot to return to the flagpole and take the slightly lower route which leads to the cage. Also, to increase speed in this game, you have to make Spot walk a bit first, which is slow. You can jump immediately without walking to gain speed and you'll immediately go as fast as his fastest walking speed. This chart should make a little more sense: 
   GROUND    JUMP
    256       768
    512      1024
    768      1280
There are countless times in the run where I walk a tiny bit before jumping. Plenty of these can be omitted, I'm sure, but I haven't tested any yet. So basically, if there's anything else anyone feels worth mentioning, please let me know! It would be appreciated.
My Backloggery
Posted: 8/20/2011 5:15 PM
Quote
funnyhair
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
This game is interesting. I took a look at the SNES version, and judging by what you said, some levels will be faster than the genesis one, and some levels will be slower. However, this version seems to have its own things going for it, so keep using this. I watched the WIP and it is pretty good other than the mistakes you made. Ill take a look at the genesis game soon, but keep up the good work.
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Posted: 8/27/2011 5:40 PM
Quote
SaxxonPike
Any
Emulator Coder
Joined: 6/8/2005
Posts: 236
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
I'd have to go with Genesis. But that's based on the sound alone, because Tommy Tallarico can freakin' wail on FM. "Off The Wall" is a pretty good benchmark for comparing the two versions (it is a pretty tight level), and I think a test would help determine which version to use speed-wise. The WIP looks good, I did notice some backtracking in the bonus levels, decent routes otherwise. Do you happen to have large maps for this game?
Music - https://www.sanxion7.com Code - https://github.com/SaxxonPike
Posted: 8/27/2011 6:04 PM
Quote
funnyhair
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
I looked through the SNES one, and I could not find anything significant, other than jumping and shooting the bubbles shoots faster than on the ground? does this work in the genesis one as well? anyay, keep up the good work!
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Posted: 8/27/2011 9:02 PM
Quote
ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
SaxxonPike wrote:
"Off The Wall" is a pretty good benchmark for comparing the two versions (it is a pretty tight level), and I think a test would help determine which version to use speed-wise.
Yeah, this was hands-down the worst part of the WIP; it needs a lot of work. I would bet heavily on the SNES version being faster. Jumping off ropes is faster and you can shoot four bubbles instead of three. If the mice still have four HP in the SNES version (something I haven't checked), the SNES version should be faster. However, I can think of only four levels that would be faster on SNES: The two "wall" levels and the two "pier" levels. The Genesis time saved in the rest of the levels should make up for that... I think.
SaxxonPike wrote:
The WIP looks good, I did notice some backtracking in the bonus levels, decent routes otherwise. Do you happen to have large maps for this game?
I make maps of the level before completing them. I would eventually like to upload them in full-quality, but I'm not sure how I would do that. I have a photobucket account, but I'm sure that it's not worth it to even try uploading them to that.
funnyhair wrote:
I looked through the SNES one, and I could not find anything significant, other than jumping and shooting the bubbles shoots faster than on the ground? does this work in the genesis one as well? anyay, keep up the good work!
In the Genesis version, you can only ever shoot three bubbles at a time, and there's a considerable and unfortunate waiting period even after the bubbles are gone before you can shoot again. And thanks to both of you for the encouragement!
My Backloggery
1 2