My intention is not to start a fight, but to share information. I know that many people have misconceptions about these issues, and correcting misinformation is a positive thing. Why someone would get upset by this is beyond my comprehension.
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Warp, nobody claimed that having no OS was a good idea. MinuetOS is an OS. It aims to achieve your described optimizations with manual assembly programming (which, if done cleverly, is more efficient than compiler-generated machine code) and minimal extra software layering. I'm not sure if MinuetOS achieves this, but it is a nice goal with definite possibility.
Yes, your avatar contributes to the image of fierce analysis. However, you consistently underestimate your audience by explaining simple things with great verbosity, causing your posts to be time-wasting searches for the point. We don't want to read a page of text about the same thing only to find out you weren't really saying anything new or that you were arguing a different point than what was presented.
", as I already commented." is a really obnoxious thing to say. Your comments aren't necessarily always the truth. Your comment was read and it was disputed. It wasn't simply skipped.
Warp, nobody claimed that having no OS was a good idea. MinuetOS is an OS. It aims to achieve your described optimizations with manual assembly programming (which, if done cleverly, is more efficient than compiler-generated machine code) and minimal extra software layering. I'm not sure if MinuetOS achieves this, but it is a nice goal with definite possibility.
You see, that's where I think there's the misconception. There is a relatively widespread notion that writing in asm using "clever tricks" will make the system more efficient. This may be true in a limited way, on small things, on a specific platform, but it isn't true on the grand scale and especially on subsequent platforms (as asm cannot be "auto-upgraded" to the new optimizations of new platforms).
", as I already commented." is a really obnoxious thing to say.
It has never even crossed my mind that the expression "as I already commented" could be interpreted as obnoxious. I have always thought it to be simply a reference to a previous post (as in "for more details, see my previous posts, there's no need for me to repeat them again").
Your comments aren't necessarily always the truth.
That should be a given, a self-evident fact. I don't think it's crucial to litter one's posts with abundant instances of "AFAIK", "in my experience", "I think", "I believe" and other such weasel words to make sure that the reader understands that I'm writing about what I think is the case, not a claim of "this is the absolute truth, bow before my masterful knowledge".
Murphy's law of online forums: If something can be interpreted in more than one way, somebody will interpret in the worst possible way and get offended. No exceptions.
Corollary: If something cannot possibly be interpreted in a negative way, someone nevertheless will.
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Warp wrote:
", as I already commented." is a really obnoxious thing to say.
It has never even crossed my mind that the expression "as I already commented" could be interpreted as obnoxious. I have always thought it to be simply a reference to a previous post (as in "for more details, see my previous posts, there's no need for me to repeat them again").
Your comments aren't necessarily always the truth.
That should be a given, a self-evident fact. I don't think it's crucial to litter one's posts with abundant instances of "AFAIK", "in my experience", "I think", "I believe" and other such weasel words to make sure that the reader understands that I'm writing about what I think is the case, not a claim of "this is the absolute truth, bow before my masterful knowledge".
Murphy's law of online forums: If something can be interpreted in more than one way, somebody will interpret in the worst possible way and get offended. No exceptions.
Corollary: If something cannot possibly be interpreted in a negative way, someone nevertheless will.
You missed the point again. You separated my two sentences in the same paragraph as if they were unrelated. "', as I already commented.' is a really obnoxious thing to say." is directly related to "Your comments aren't necessarily always the truth.". Using ", as I already commented." was clearly meant to explain to the reader that they should read the comment you repeated (!) from your previous post because they must have missed it, since their dispute against your comment couldn't possibly hold any weight or meaning.
Using ", as I already commented." was clearly meant to explain to the reader that they should read the comment you repeated (!) from your previous post because they must have missed it, since their dispute against your comment couldn't possibly hold any weight or meaning.
I honestly can't understand where you are getting this from. I really, honestly meant just exactly what I said, ie. "see my previous post". Nothing more, nothing less. Rereading my own post which contains the expression in question, I still can't see anything "obnoxious" or derogatory. It was by no means meant to be condescending or anything (and no, I'm not trying to lie myself out of a pinch here, I'm being completely honest.)
This is way off-topic in this thread. If you don't want to believe me, then don't.
Using ", as I already commented." was clearly meant to explain to the reader that they should read the comment you repeated (!) from your previous post because they must have missed it, since their dispute against your comment couldn't possibly hold any weight or meaning.
Hold on. Since an argument was claimed but not stated, he was free to make a guess (within reason) as to what must have comprised the argument. The most likely argument was shown not to address his original statement. So, you can't really claim that he has acted condescendingly by ignoring an argument, when it was in fact demonstrated that there was no argument.
Can do!
It seems whenever someone finds something interesting, whether useful or not, you feel the need to tear it apart and write reasons why it does not deserve to live. That is great for some professions, but annoying for hobbyists. Can't something just be cool?
Long story short, I have finally discovered that I can laugh at your over-thought posts and then ignore them because ---------- I don't care! (The '---' leads to tension for my dramatic reveal)
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
It seems whenever someone finds something interesting, whether useful or not, you feel the need to tear it apart and write reasons why it does not deserve to live. That is great for some professions, but annoying for hobbyists. Can't something just be cool?
I find that remark pretty ironic, taking into account it's posted right after I linked to something I consider cool.
Seriously, why do people always assume the worst? Just because I overanalyze and write in length about something I find interesting doesn't mean I'm bashing it.
I sincerely hope you don't laugh at your friends if they explain something to you in detail, even if you didn't ask for it. They wouldn't be your friends for long.
This is the best thread.
Hey, Warp, we should swap avatars for a while and see if people read your posts differently! I have often posited that people think I am more friendly and happy than I actually am.
Also, Murphy's law killed my father and I was offended by your referencing it in such a lighthearted manner. Pretty sure you did that on purpose.
lol@Sticky
Oh, and, uh... operating systems are pretty nifty I guess?
Hey, Warp, we should swap avatars for a while and see if people read your posts differently! I have often posited that people think I am more friendly and happy than I actually am.
That could be pretty confusing because at first glance it would look like all of your posts would be mine and all of my posts yours (AFAIK if you change your avatar it will change in all of your existing posts). But perhaps I could some day try just changing my avatar(s) to something else completely (something lighter and happier), just to see if the average reaction to my posts changes in any way... :)
Yes, this next line is TOTALLY not bashing it.
Warp wrote:
Writing an OS in asm makes absolutely no sense.
That is a really positive compliment to the people who wrote it! Go you.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
You are correct. Written text does not always convey tone of voice.
Does writing a PC emulator in javascript and running linux on it make any sense? No. Can it be cool and interesting? Yes.
Is jslinux a toy project with little practical application? Yes. Is saying that bashing the project? If you really want to interpret it like that, I can't stop you.
This menuetOS can be an interesting toy project, but you should understand why in practice it can be much less useful than it might sound. That's just like it is. If you want to interpret this as bashing, then go ahead.
I don't even understand what you are talking about. I'm suspecting you are not being serious. Haha, good joke, whatever. Can we get back to the topic?
(I suppose I'll just have to stop responding to attempts to troll me, or else this derailment will go forever. I have to admit that I get trolled easily, a personality trait that is difficult to overcome.)
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
We're seriously not trolling you. We're trying to make you understand how annoying you are so we can help you fix your posting habits. Sticky's post on this page is the best post in this thread. It's only humorous because it's satisfyingly accurate. I couldn't have said it better myself.
We're seriously not trolling you. We're trying to make you understand how annoying you are so we can help you fix your posting habits. Sticky's post on this page is the best post in this thread. It's only humorous because it's satisfyingly accurate. I couldn't have said it better myself.
If you (plural) disagree to an actual point I made then feel free to do so. We can discuss that. If you simply find my style of writing annoying and enjoy engaging in personal attacks, why don't you go and create a topic, or heck, a group, named "why warp is annoying" or whatever and engage in your little group masturbation there. You can then "seriously not troll" me how much you like there.
It seems this topic is dead.
why don't you go and create a topic, or heck, a group, named "why warp is annoying" or whatever
Because nobody (I hope so) on this forum takes pleasure in "masturbating" over someone's negative traits.
For this once (and not just this once), please do believe it that people are trying to help you into seeing what exactly is it that causes your posts to be perceived in a manner that puts your very personality into very negative light, so that you might learn from it.
From what I see, you seem to be much more motivated in defending your own position than in learning that people do not, really, intentionally, get offended and upset for no reason over what you write, and that you do have room for change and learning of communication. From what I've talked with you for who knows how many years, your position has always been basically "if someone doesn't understand me the way I intended to be perceived, so be it, it's their fault" (paraphrase). And you're not even from Savo. You reap what you sow: one sided communication and misunderstandings. Do you want to continue reaping the same fruit?
P.S. jslinux is indeed very cool. Thanks for the find! I made a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gu6bdKDjoE
Joined: 4/18/2007
Posts: 88
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Warp, trust me when I say this, just let it go and grow.
I was in your situation years ago and all you can do from that situation is look back and think about how idiotic you were.
There is no reason for you to repeat the mistake that I and so many before me have made.
L. Spiro
For this once (and not just this once), please do believe it that people are trying to help you into seeing what exactly is it that causes your posts to be perceived in a manner that puts your very personality into very negative light, so that you might learn from it.
Could you please explain to me exactly how I should have known that one person in this forum would find an expression like "as I commented earlier" and question-talking (whatever that means) "obnoxious" and offensive, and how I could have avoided offending this one person? Because I have no idea, honestly. I still don't understand what's so "obnoxious" about them. (Heck, I still don't even know what this "question-talking" is, and why it's offensive.) Let's start there.
Please also explain to me why the length of my posts is an issue. This is the umpteenth time that very thing has been brought up (it was mentioned in this thread). I have asked this very thing several times, and I don't remember anybody actually explaining it to me. Apparently people have a strange aversion to long posts, yet seem to be unable to explain why. It would be nice to know.
Being talkative and explaining things in detail is a personality trait, and I have never heard of it being considered offensive. If you have a friend who likes to talk in length and go into detail about things, do you go and tell him "you talk too much, that's annoying"? I don't think that person would be your friend for long.
From what I've talked with you for who knows how many years, your position has always been basically "if someone doesn't understand me the way I intended to be perceived, so be it, it's their fault" (paraphrase).
You are oversimplifying. If someone doesn't want to understand what I meant even when I explain it, and they stubborningly just keep attacking me on how I "offended" them and whatever, completely ignoring my explanation that I did not mean it like that, what else can I do?
Please also explain to me why the length of my posts is an issue. This is the umpteenth time that very thing has been brought up (it was mentioned in this thread). I have asked this very thing several times, and I don't remember anybody actually explaining it to me. Apparently people have a strange aversion to long posts, yet seem to be unable to explain why. It would be nice to know.
I considered answering this, as I'm one of those people who has commented in the past. However, you tend to meet criticism by entrenching yourself deeper in your defenses.
You say "I want to know," but I already know the response to anything I post. #1, a staunch defense of your posting behavior. #2, no inner-reflection or introspection on whether or not I'm full of shit, or have a point. #3, no change in behavior. So, why should I bother?
Warp wrote:
Being talkative and explaining things in detail is a personality trait, and I have never heard of it being considered offensive. If you have a friend who likes to talk in length and go into detail about things, do you go and tell him "you talk too much, that's annoying"? I don't think that person would be your friend for long.
LOL, No, but that person tends not to get invited to parties, or people find an excuse to walk away from them. Generally, you don't need to tell them not to talk too much, because if they annoy you, you probably aren't hankering to be their friend. I don't know about you, but I try not to be friends with people who irritate me.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
