Post by BigBoct

Posted: 2/10/2011 8:00 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

ZakkyDraggy wrote:

As for Griffin, is waiting for a full charge shot the best strategy?

Here's some proof that it isn't (3"66, and I think I wasted 10 frames or so charging unnecessarily for wing joint shots).

Posted: 2/13/2011 1:52 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

Hie guyz, here is an improvment over nitsuja time on griffin... 3"40, thanks to nit for show the ways Download.

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 2/14/2011 1:24 AM

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ZakkyDraggy

Player (75)

Joined: 1/21/2011
Posts: 43

Hmmm...I played the movie, but it looks like the input ended before Griffin had been finished off.

Posted: 2/14/2011 2:35 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

ZakkyDraggy wrote:

Hmmm...I played the movie, but it looks like the input ended before Griffin had been finished off.

Strange, why should it happen? I finished input on Viscount screen... maybe its that desync thing?

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 2/14/2011 3:52 PM

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I don't really know enough about the technical aspects here to really come to any conclusion, but I can say that it looks fine to me at least all the way through to the 'adjust aim' on Griffin. And even after that it seems to look fine, but for some reason the movie ends before the battle does.

Posted: 2/17/2011 11:25 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

Hiae guyz, just to make sure I'm surely still working on the project, will post WIP with Viscount time on saturday , I'm analizing somes strategies I found on him, just to make sure I get a great time, so I just ask a bit of pacience until saturday and dont worry guyz, I'm not going to give up this project until its done! thankies!

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 2/27/2011 1:35 AM

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BigBoct

He/Him

Editor, Former player

Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH

I've been doing a lot of messing around with Falcon in Normal Mode, and I posted some pretty good times recently. Here's what I have from my last playthrough. Garam: 22.70 Siamang: 13.63 Wong: 7.70 Griffin: 20.25 Viscount: 33.16 Thanatos: 30.10 Arachnus: 29.83 Cobra: 39.26 Groken: 30.95 Vivirus 1: 44.81 Vivirus 2: 46.58 Giga-Desp 1: 19.45 Giga-Desp 2: 20.76 without sacrificing Rola I can't find a list of times anywhere online, but if these turn out to be any good, I'll give some thought to a Normal Mode ST Falcon run. I know laranja is using Real Mode to access the highest difficulty, but that deprives you of the story, and I don't like that.

Previous Name: boct1584

Posted: 2/27/2011 4:38 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

Hie guyz, long time no post, sorry for the delay... here is da Viscount WIP... I tried to shot his antennas, which are his parts with less life before legs, it take long to destroi it and didnt help to much to reach the armor... so the best way I found is just to destroy the armor immediately... also LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1037985032/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Falcon%27s%20Revenge.smv

boct1584 wrote:

I can't find a list of times anywhere online, but if these turn out to be any good, I'll give some thought to a Normal Mode ST Falcon run. I know laranja is using Real Mode to access the highest difficulty, but that deprives you of the story, and I don't like that.

Hie dear, hmm on youtube there are few videos showing few good times, most times there are from sloopy gameplay, no one tased or tried a speedrun overthere...

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 2/27/2011 5:24 PM

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BigBoct

He/Him

Editor, Former player

Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH

The one you just linked stops halfway through Griffin. Did you link the wrong one?

Previous Name: boct1584

Posted: 2/27/2011 6:05 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

boct1584 wrote:

The one you just linked stops halfway through Griffin. Did you link the wrong one?

I think its a emulator desync, it happened with me too, I tought I had lost my progress but it was only the emulator... my emulator is 1.51 v7 svn147... EDIT: after taking a deeper look I found the prob, My mistake really I was choossing from the wrong file, here is the right one http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/933376113/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Falcon%27s%20Revenge.smv

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 3/1/2011 12:53 PM

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ZakkyDraggy

Player (75)

Joined: 1/21/2011
Posts: 43

boct1584 wrote:

I've been doing a lot of messing around with Falcon in Normal Mode, and I posted some pretty good times recently. Here's what I have from my last playthrough. Garam: 22.70 Siamang: 13.63 Wong: 7.70 Griffin: 20.25 Viscount: 33.16 Thanatos: 30.10 Arachnus: 29.83 Cobra: 39.26 Groken: 30.95 Vivirus 1: 44.81 Vivirus 2: 46.58 Giga-Desp 1: 19.45 Giga-Desp 2: 20.76 without sacrificing Rola I can't find a list of times anywhere online, but if these turn out to be any good, I'll give some thought to a Normal Mode ST Falcon run. I know laranja is using Real Mode to access the highest difficulty, but that deprives you of the story, and I don't like that.

Here are the times from a segmented speed run with the Falcon that I did for SDA. Garam2: 0'06"13 Siamang: 0'08"31 Wong: 0'05"95 Griffin: 0'13"13 Viscount: 0'18"85 Thanatos: 0'21"11 Arachnus: 0'19"36 Cobra: 0'21"05 Groken: 0'30"38 Virvius 1: 0'18"58 Virvius2: 0'08"23 Giga-Desp 1: 0'17"66 Giga-Desp 2: 0'12"70 (I killed Rola here, though) I know the Thanatos time, though, can be reduced to at least 0'13"08 and the Viscount to at least 0'12"51. Wong can also be faster than 5 seconds, though for me on the console it required the use of a bomb. In order to get these faster Viscount times, I would need to sacrifice using a bomb on Wong since it is the only battle I would not lose a lot of time on as a result. However, for a TAS, it's more than likely possible to compensate for that, as well as surpass the console times I've listed above. Hopefully, however, that does provide a guideline. When I have a moment, I'll put together some demos of my strategies.

Posted: 3/1/2011 1:14 PM

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BigBoct

He/Him

Editor, Former player

Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH

When I have a moment, I'll put together some demos of my strategies.

Please do. I enjoy playing Metal Combat immensely, and I imagine doing a TAS would be fun too; plus, laranja has already proved (to me) that it's fun to watch.

Previous Name: boct1584

Posted: 3/1/2011 3:54 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

ZakkyDraggy wrote:

boct1584 wrote:
When I have a moment, I'll put together some demos of my strategies.
Oh ya, if you can provide that please would be nice to watch it, are you going to use Falcon?
boct1584 wrote:
Please do. I enjoy playing Metal Combat immensely, and I imagine doing a TAS would be fun too; plus, laranja has already proved (to me) that it's fun to watch.
Hia , thankies, hope its worth entertaining and technicaly good to make it worth a TAS... EDIT: forgot to say, I'm already on progress with anubis now, probably will use same strategy as my first attemp, shoulders seem to be the weakest parts which also allow to break the armor faster... legs seem to be vulnerable too but damage less to armor...and will need to adjust aim too if im going to hit his shoulders because the aim is desynced due to Griffin fight but since I'm aiming for In-game time its not a big problem

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 3/1/2011 4:32 PM

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ZakkyDraggy

Player (75)

Joined: 1/21/2011
Posts: 43

boct1584 wrote:

When I have a moment, I'll put together some demos of my strategies.
Please do. I enjoy playing Metal Combat immensely, and I imagine doing a TAS would be fun too; plus, laranja has already proved (to me) that it's fun to watch.

Metal Combat is definitely a lot of fun. And it certainly is fun to watch. I'm absolutely sure that there have to be improvements on what I've done or ways to defeat the opponents faster, but hopefully this will provide a good starting point.

laranja wrote:

Oh ya, if you can provide that please would be nice to watch it, are you going to use Falcon?

Yes, using the Falcon on normal mode. I'll see if I can't get them up by later today.

Posted: 3/1/2011 9:49 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

Zakky I noticed your time at groken, are you using save states? if so, try a strategy that I know please, I still not tested on TAS but will test when I reach her, in the moment you destroy her second arm try always to let the energy gauge low , dont let any bar complet, it maybe can be a luck manipulation to make her not to shot her machine gun, and then when the tentacle comes out just shot it and try the same strategy to try make her skip her machine gun atack once again and open her body already, if this works maybe you will get a time around 20~25 seconds, will depends ALOT about luck manipulation... Oh perhaps, dont need to rush to post you work.

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 3/1/2011 10:17 PM

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ZakkyDraggy

Player (75)

Joined: 1/21/2011
Posts: 43

Those times are my console speed run times. I'm actually currently working on the demos right now. So far I've finished through Thanatos and am going to be starting Arachnus soon. Here are my times so far: Garam2 - 0'06"01 Siamang - 0'08"28 Wong (using a bomb) - 0'04"53 Griffin - 0'12"11 Viscount (2-bomb strategy) - 0'10"45 Thanatos (2-bomb strategy) - 0'12"06 And I am using save states. What I'm trying to do is just provide a demo of what my console strategies are (although the Viscount one would probably be fairly difficult to pull off on the console) as a starting point. Also, I didn't use the "adjust aim" glitch anywhere because I don't know how it works, so I didn't know where, if anywhere it could be used. I also haven't experimented too much with partially powered shots, so there's probably a whole realm of further possibilities. One other thing is that you wouldn't be able to use the Wong, Viscount, and Thanatos strategies in the same run following my plan because you'd end up one bomb short of what you'd need. I'm short on time right now so I though I'd like to look into this more in-depth I can't. But I at least want to offer up what I do know in case it will help.

Posted: 3/1/2011 11:31 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

ZakkyDraggy wrote:

Wong (using a bomb) - 0'04"53 Viscount (2-bomb strategy) - 0'10"45 .

Woa, pretty impresive times, about Viscount I didnt use bombs but if I use it can help save time but increases lag a lot but maybe not In-game time ,since his legs were both destroied it increases lag plus bomb will give a great lag , should I use bombs on Viscount then? Wong time is impressive too.

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 3/2/2011 4:28 PM

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ZakkyDraggy

Player (75)

Joined: 1/21/2011
Posts: 43

Ah right, lag. That's a good point. You're right about the lag increase, but that probably helps with in-game time, which is what I've been focusing on. Anyway, since it may be a few days before I get through the rest of the opponents, here are the ones for Garam2 - Viscount. Apologies for the individual segments, but I didn't think to record it all in one movie at the time. Garam 2: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1229482514/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Garam2-Falcon-Normal.smv Siamang: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1662596164/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Siamang-Falcon-Normal.smv Wong: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1085231570/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Wong-Falcon-Normal.smv Griffin: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/675383679/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Griffin-Falcon-Normal.smv Viscount: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/227903590/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Viscount-Falcon-Normal.smv EDIT: By the way, just watched your WIP. Awesome work. The Viscount battle was pretty excellent. If your Wong and Viscount strategies can translate to normal (I don't see why they shouldn't) you may have given me ideas on how to improve on my speed run.

Posted: 3/2/2011 7:21 PM

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BigBoct

He/Him

Editor, Former player

Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH

DAMN, man. Putting me to shame here.

Previous Name: boct1584

Posted: 3/2/2011 10:05 PM

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laranja

Player (184)

Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil

I did watched your Wips, very nice work, most of them you got the best strategy but maybe you could have manipulated Garam for jump immediately? on Wong you did a impressive time, but just asking, using a bomb earlier should have damaged him during the battle? but I think there is not much difference on using earlier... on Griffin I noticed your last shot was on his leg, wow I didnt know he should get damaged heavily there, and on Viscount I think he died somehow from the same glitch like Arachnus? his life wasn´t empty then suddenly it keeps going down then he died, nice one there too ;p Also I made my decision about Viscount battle, I'm going to use bomb on him, if my calculation are right I will not even need to shot on his legs if I use 2 bombs, bombs may take it out while already giving great damage to him, IF I'm right maybe its possible to save 3~4 seconds In-game time.

boct1584 wrote:

DAMN, man. Putting me to shame here.

Why man ? :P

My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!

Posted: 3/2/2011 10:17 PM

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ZakkyDraggy

Player (75)

Joined: 1/21/2011
Posts: 43

Garam2 - I've actually never seen him lead with a jump in normal difficulty. If that is one of his possible patterns, then it would definitely save a few seconds. Wong - I almost never use bombs to do damage. They're much better for delaying opponents or softening up parts. The bomb here was used mostly to hold Wong in place so the final shot could be charged. I forget if it was necessary to use the bomb in order to do enough damage to Wong for the final shot to kill. Also, I need to lead off the battle by taking out the shoulder joint and then need to quickly take out his head while it's vulnerable. I don't think the bomb would do enough damage to destroy the joint. I think he also turns and faces you when you hit with a bomb. As for using a bomb as the second move, trying to launch a bomb at his head first wouldn't work because the bomb would take too long to detonate and his head would no longer be vulnerable when it hits. Griffin - Yeah, his legs are pretty vulnerable, but the bomb probably softened them up too. Viscount - Here the bombs were used strictly to delay his moves. Keep me posted on what you come up with. If you can cut this time down further, that would be awesome.

Posted: 3/2/2011 11:57 PM

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ZakkyDraggy

Player (75)

Joined: 1/21/2011
Posts: 43

Okay, finished up Thanatos - Giga Desp 1. Left Giga-Desp 2 out because I only have a strategy that requires killing Rola at the moment. Times: Thanatos: 0'12"06 Arachnus: 0'18"06 Cobra: 0'19"97 Groken: 0'29"73 Virvius 1: 0'17"50 Virvius 2: 0'07"48 Giga-Desp 1: 0'17"23 Thanatos: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/993085251/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Thanatos%20-%20Falcon%20-%20Normal.smv Arachnus - Giga-Desp 1: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1686853019/Metal%20Combat%20-%20Normal%20-%20Falcon.smv There's input leading up to the Arachnus battle after Thanatos because I'd stopped intending to continue later, but then couldn't figure out how to resume the file. Groken: I'm very sure this battle can be improved. I don't think you need to use treble shots at all in this battle and not using them will cut down on lag. It will require discharging shots, but if that's done properly it won't cause lag. I only learned how to manage this better on Giga-Desp 1 and was past here at that point. Timing was hard here because firing causes lag and results in her attacks ending up a few frames further than where they'd be if you didn't fire. This is probably the case for all opponents, but I only began noticing it here. Virvius 2: In normal you get the V-System no matter how fast or well you do in the game. I put it to good use here. Giga-Desp 1: It may be faster to actually pick off each orb one by one. Of course, the stage is dark, so it would take a little trial and error to figure out which ones are open and vulnerable and will get destroyed when you fire at them. I really wanted to just be done at this point, so I went with tossing a bomb instead. If you could, however, pick all the eyes off without a bomb it would: - Be really awesome because I don't think that's a feasible strategy for a console run - Save you a bomb which would mean using one on Wong earlier would still allow you to use two each on Viscount and Thanatos (though I guess if you save Rola in the end on a normal run, you'd still have a bomb to spare if you're following my bomb usage plan). Also, it's very important to discharge shots after destroying the eyes. If you do not have an empty energy gauge, Giga-Desp will take forever to expose his weak point. This is why you see me discharging four shots and then rapid firing.