Hi how's it going? SDA member here. We're so scared!!! So scared I offered to help out with this console verification thing. Granted, I would be more afraid if I were andrewg, but I don't have any nes runs so yay!
If you think there's never been a case where someone tried to submit a TAS to us as a console run, you would be sadly mistaken my friend. I'm not sure why some of you are so anti-SDA. :(
In my case it was just intended as gentle ribbing. That "verified no cheating" blurb in the SDA logo has always struck me as slightly indefensible for the consoles with accurate TAS-capable emulators. I have nothing against SDA or human speedruns.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I haven't noticed any anti-SDA sentiments here (and I have been here for quite a long time). If there has been any such slight animosity, it might be at least partially as a response to the condescending attitude a few SDA users have had towards TASing in the past. (I haven't followed too closely what the general attitude is nowadays, but I'm guessing it's generally more positive.)
Maybe if you submit a crappy TAS with bad luck or some screwups, but why would you do that?
It would be naive to think that nobody would go through the trouble of creating a less-than-perfect tool-assisted run just to get it published on SDA, especially since less-than-perfect TASing is quite easy with most games (especially if your only goal is to beat the current human record, at least with most games). People have gone to significantly larger extremes for less recognition than that.
The verified no cheating thing is the same to me as "This movie is a tool-assisted run played on an emulator." It's just a shorter way of saying "This speedrun underwent peer review and to the best of our ability has been determined that it was played in realtime on the original unmodifed hardware (or official emulator such as Wii Virtual Console) with a standard controller.
There's a significant difference, though: With TASes anybody can verify for themselves the result (ie. that it was achieved purely by keypresses and not eg. hacking the rom or editing the video). However, it would be quite difficult for someone to verify that a video downloaded from SDA is indeed legit playing.
Thanks for volunteering your carts, dballin. Please disregard our tendency to get into horrible pedantic arguments. SDA is clearly not going anywhere anytime soon.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
You win. We better shut the site down then. Recommend some NES games already.
I honestly don't understand. I was not trying to "win" anything. I was just commenting.
But you keep arguing about stuff not worth arguing about. Perhaps verifying speedruns has become harder now, but frankly nobody cares. Well, you do. And apparently you find it necessary to keep telling people you care. Which is fine, when done once, but it's been made clear to you a few times now that it's starting to get annoying.
But you keep arguing about stuff not worth arguing about.
I'm not arguing. I'm conversing. Someone makes a post about something, I present my views or opinions about some of the presented points, not to counter or argue them, but to converse and socialize. What is wrong with that? Or is it that differing opinions are always considered "arguing"?
Which is fine, when done once, but it's been made clear to you a few times now that it's starting to get annoying.
I don't even understand what you are referring to. Exactly what have I been saying repeatedly, and which is getting annoying?
This conversation was about verifying the legitimacy of speedruns, as well as some concepts about possible anti-SDA sentiments. What have I said about this subject that "is starting to get annoying"? I don't get it. Could you please explain?
Another thread being derailed by Warp.
Please stop.
I'm honestly getting really annoyed by your comments. Seemingly anybody else can post whatever they want, but if I dare to express any views whatsoever, it constitutes "arguing" and "derailing the thread". Whenever someone does start arguing, it's never their fault, it's always mine.
Please explain to me why, for example, Derakon's post "that "verified no cheating" blurb in the SDA logo has always struck me as slightly indefensible...", which is what started this side-conversation, nor any of the other posts that were made as a response to it. constitute "derailing the thread", but when I dare to make a response about the subject, it immediately earns a "another thread being derailed by Warp" comment? Why exactly am I singled out and assigned exclusive blame for whatever "derailing" might have happened?
I have to say that as an admin you are seriously lacking some diplomacy skills.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Unfortunately, if it wasn't played in front of a trustworthy judge, it can't be 100% verified. Even then the player could be on some sort of steroids, is that verified too?
Just want to make it clear that I wish I could 100% trust that SDA videos are legit. I would even like to participate, but it's not only discouraging to know the legitimacy can't be assured (I always knew this), it's also hard to participate with all the video sending trouble. And then the website says otherwise. I just prefer to stay away.
Another thread being derailed by Warp.
Please stop.
I'm honestly getting really annoyed by your comments. Seemingly anybody else can post whatever they want, but if I dare to express any views whatsoever, it constitutes "arguing" and "derailing the thread". Whenever someone does start arguing, it's never their fault, it's always mine.
Please explain to me why, for example, Derakon's post "that "verified no cheating" blurb in the SDA logo has always struck me as slightly indefensible...", which is what started this side-conversation, nor any of the other posts that were made as a response to it. constitute "derailing the thread", but when I dare to make a response about the subject, it immediately earns a "another thread being derailed by Warp" comment? Why exactly am I singled out and assigned exclusive blame for whatever "derailing" might have happened?
I have to say that as an admin you are seriously lacking some diplomacy skills.
This is the 2nd time I've had to split that topic, with you being the most vocal party involved.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Warp, you need to learn when to drop it. And this is coming from a guy like me.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Warp, you need to learn when to drop it. And this is coming from a guy like me.
Drop what, exactly? I don't understand. Could someone please explain?
I have been accused of derailing the thread. I certainly did no such thing. I was certainly not the one who started discussing about speedrun verification and SDA. I simply posted a couple of responses, and I was not the only one participating in that sidetracking conversation. Yet I was accused of "derailing the thread". Not only was I accused of it, I was singled out as the sole culprit.
Exactly what was it that I did wrong, that nobody else did, and for which I deserved to be publicly blamed?
According to DarkKobold above, it seems that me simply participating in the thread is reason enough to blame me exclusively. No other people participating in the thread seem to deserve the honor of being mentioned, only me.
DarkKobold wrote:
This is the 2nd time I've had to split that topic, with you being the most vocal party involved.
Is that really your sole argument to put blame on me? That I participated in the conversation? And exactly what does it mean that I was "the most vocal party involved"? What exactly was it that I did wrong? Nobody has yet explained it to me.
(Well, seemingly Scepheo made some strange accusations, but they make absolutely no sense. Seemingly, according to him, I care a lot about the verification of speedruns and I have repeatedly told people that I care, and that people have made it clear to me several times. I don't have the slightest idea what he is talking about. Where exactly have I shown concern about speedrun verification and that it's harder now? Where, when and who exactly has "made it clear" to me? I wonder if Scepheo is confusing me with somebody else.)
So perhaps if somebody would explain to me what I did wrong, I could avoid doing it again.
Or was it wrong that when an admin put sole blame on me of "derailing the thread", when I did no such thing and was not the only participant in the discussion, I responded to the accusation? If that was the wrong I did, what should have I done? Just accept the blame for something I did not do? Really?
Drop what, exactly? I don't understand. Could someone please explain?
"Arguing" over off-topic matters in a thread with a clear topic outside the off topic section of the forum.
(This is just my personal interpretation)
(I'm aware this isn't really what has happened here)
A: totally on topic comment
B: tangential remark on A's comment
W: picking up the tangential remark, essentially starting a meta-discussion
B: feels the need to clarify
W: thinks B misinterpreted the earlier statement (I guess especially this is what the "drop it" part refers to)
It can be very difficult to avoid sometimes. Probably you were singled out because your comments often encourage further off-topic discussion in some way.
Well, seemingly Scepheo made some strange accusations, but they make absolutely no sense. Seemingly, according to him, I care a lot about the verification of speedruns and I have repeatedly told people that I care, and that people have made it clear to me several times. I don't have the slightest idea what he is talking about. Where exactly have I shown concern about speedrun verification and that it's harder now? Where, when and who exactly has "made it clear" to me? I wonder if Scepheo is confusing me with somebody else.
Admitted, after looking back I may have reacted a little to much. But I wasn't confusing you with anyone else, I was simply confusing this discussion with another discussion where you overdid it. You tell us to say what it is exactly you did wrong, but perhaps you should simply look at the amount of people telling you to quit it and take that as proof you're doing something wrong. Seriously Warp, stop taking everything we say as a personal attack. I, for one, value your opinion but it's the way you bring it that slightly annoys me. You seem to take every little point and drag it out, just for the sake of arguing. This usually results in some sort of Warp vs. the rest argument, which also means that every other post in the thread is by you.
Admitted, I'm having some trouble expressing why exactly you manage to annoy me, so don't take everything I said to literally. The fact that I feel the need to point this out to you isn't a good thing, though.
I think the difficulty here is that discussions that involve you, Warp, never end. There is always some minor detail that requires multiple paragraphs of detailed discussion, or some trivial miscommunication that requires you to restate your entire thesis all over again. Nobody else is interested in these things to that level of pedanticism, so when you try to direct the conversation in that direction, people get irritated. You're bringing legalistic levels of precision debate to a casual chat; can you see how that would aggravate people?
Certainly you're not always directly responsible for taking the conversation off the rails; I'll freely accept the brunt of the blame for this particular instance. However, you are absolutely responsible for keeping it off the rails. You need to try to read between the lines of the responses that other people make to you; if you're getting "I'm done with this line of conversation" vibes, then it's time to stop, by either saying "Okay, I recognize what you're saying even if I don't agree with it" or simply not responding at all.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Derakon wrote:
I think the difficulty here is that discussions that involve you, Warp, never end. There is always some minor detail that requires multiple paragraphs of detailed discussion, or some trivial miscommunication that requires you to restate your entire thesis all over again. Nobody else is interested in these things to that level of pedanticism, so when you try to direct the conversation in that direction, people get irritated. You're bringing legalistic levels of precision debate to a casual chat; can you see how that would aggravate people?
W: picking up the tangential remark, essentially starting a meta-discussion
This pretty much hits the nail on the head. You weren't the cause of the derailment, but time and time again, this is your typical mode of operation, starting a meta-discussion at every possible moment.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Drop what, exactly? I don't understand. Could someone please explain?
"Arguing" over off-topic matters in a thread with a clear topic outside the off topic section of the forum.
(This is just my personal interpretation)
I readily admit that the conversation was going off-topic (something especially grave on such an important thread, which is directly linked from the news sections of the site and all) and that me participating on the off-topic discussion was not helping the problem. However, I seriously do not think I deserved being exclusively blamed on the derailing. I did not start the derailing posts, nor was I the only one making posts in the ensuing discussion, nor was I in any way being argumentative or hostile (if somebody got that impression, it was completely unintentional).
If adelikat had said "this is going way off-topic, stop it", then he would have been completely right. However, he chose to blame it exclusively on me by name, which I felt was completely unfounded, unfair and even insulting.
Scepheo wrote:
You tell us to say what it is exactly you did wrong, but perhaps you should simply look at the amount of people telling you to quit it and take that as proof you're doing something wrong.
I have participated and even started some heated (and unnecessary) arguments in the past. I'm not proud of those moments, However, I get the feeling that in this particular case I was a victim of prejudice caused by that past, by people assuming the worst from me, rather than me doing anything inherently wrong (or at least something more wrong than anybody else). I feel that being publicly singled out and solely blamed was harsh and insulting.
Scepheo wrote:
Seriously Warp, stop taking everything we say as a personal attack.
That's sometimes quite difficult to do when an admin makes a public post saying "Another thread being derailed by Warp." If that is not personal, then I don't know what is. (Admittedly, it might have been a joke, or sarcasm, but if it was, it's certainly not apparent. If there was no ill intention from adelikat's part, I sincerely apologize.)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Derakon wrote:
always some minor detail that requires multiple paragraphs of detailed discussion
Quoted again for emphasis
EDIT: I also removed your name from the thread title so that it's less personal. Please just consider this advice: If you're going OT, make a new thread about it and ask someone to merge the other offending topics, and this problem won't need to be addressed again. (this goes for everyone, not just warp)
I think the difficulty here is that discussions that involve you, Warp, never end. There is always some minor detail that requires multiple paragraphs of detailed discussion, or some trivial miscommunication that requires you to restate your entire thesis all over again. Nobody else is interested in these things to that level of pedanticism, so when you try to direct the conversation in that direction, people get irritated. You're bringing legalistic levels of precision debate to a casual chat; can you see how that would aggravate people?
Pretty much this.
adelikat wrote:
Well said Derakon
Ok, this pretty much confirms what I suspected: I did not do anything inherently wrong in this particular case, but because of my past behavior people are being prejudiced against everything I write, and the worst is always assumed. I was singled out and blamed for "derailing" because of prejudice, not because of what I did.
(And again someone mentioning "multiple paragraphs". This honestly puzzles me to this day. What kind of strange obsession do people seem to have with multiple paragraphs? And yes, I understand it's referring to the length of my posts, not how I format my text. Regardless, specifically mentioning "multiple paragraphs" is odd, and even if speaking about the length of my posts, why should that matter? If somebody doesn't want to read long posts, they are free to skip them. What does it matter, really?)
