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About

  • Aims for fastest time of two players
  • Genre:Shooting
  • Emulator FBA-rr 003c
  • Manipulate luck
  • 2 players
  • Take damage to save time
Using two players will cost a lot of lags.And I will explain it in my summary.

About the continue

There are the main reasons why I struggle to use continue.
  • 1.Making the jumping after the train smoothly.
  • 2.Making sure that boss battle have enough items because of the power of R is very low.
  • 3.Machine Gun can hit the 5-3 door smoothly and need not wait the door destroyed.
  • 4.continue is not only used in this game,some other games in this web have used continue and borrowing lives.
  • 5.If squarrel king can use continue,I have no doubt to use continue for adding more lives.
  • 6.Continue is availiable in Arcade but just need coins,if coin is the problem,well the PS version can?
  • 7.Continue can make 4 members jump out to show in this run.
  • 8.It can be regarded as a script.
  • 9.It can avoid many lags.
  • 10.It can make the dropping place right to get the Frameshot.
  • 11.Using pistals to hit the train looks stupid.
  • 12.I can only die 2 lives.But dying three lives have more advantage for entertaining this run.And this add the entertainment but other games do not have the chance to use this.If I have 4 lives is it a problem?
  • 13.There are 20 more different experiments that I take no death there,it will make the boss battle looks foolish.Not only because of the longer time.
  • 14.There is a fat getting thin time for player-2.
  • 15.It can also not use continue but waiting for the conuting down for adding new player.
  • 16.The item manipulation for boss battle's experiments:
(1)Using 1 frameshot and the 10 bombs in robot. (2)Using 1 frameshot and 5 bombs in the robot and give up it. (3)Using 1 frameshot and 6 bombs in the robot and give up it. (4)Using 1 frameshot and give up the robot at first and pick two R.That is still not enough to beat the boss.And it is in Level 4. (5)Using 2 frameshots and give up the robot at first.If not use bombs,it is not enough to beat it. (6)Using 2 frameshots and use the robot' 2 bombs. (7)3 bombs. (8)All 4-10 bombs. (9)At first give up the robot and use normal bombs 1 or more. (10)At first give up the robot and only hit it by frameshot,that is also not enough.
So large entertainment killed without what you see the continue used.

The Game

Metal Slug X - Super Vehicle-001 (c) 1999 SNK.
Originally released to improve upon some of the problems the previous Metal Slug game ("Metal Slug 2 - Super Vehicle-001/II") had, most notably its notorious slowdown, this update also implemented several changes to beef up the gameplay, such as new enemies, a different end boss layout and a number of new weapons and secrets. The result is a better game and one of the finest chapters in this series.
- TECHNICAL -
SNK Neo-Geo MVS hardware
Game ID : 0250
Main CPU : 68000 (@ 12 Mhz)
Sound CPU : Z80 (@ 4 Mhz)
Sound Chips : YM2610 (@ 8 Mhz)
Screen orientation : Horizontal
Video resolution : 320 x 224 pixels
Screen refresh : 59.19 Hz
Palette colors : 4096
Players : 2
Control : 8-way joystick
Buttons : 3
=> Character > [A] Shoot, [B] Jump, [C] Grenade
=> Metal Slug> [A] Gun Attack, [B] Jump Board Vehicle, [C] Artillery Attack

Summary

Mission 1

21 frames faster than the precious movie,because shooting together.take a lot of lags.Hitting the boss by tank and camel.Because camel jump fast and has the infinity mechine gun.Tank have great bombs to hit boss for a lot of damage. Camel can using in the Mission 2 at first.Saving time that ignore the L gun.

Mission 2

100 frames more than the precious movie because of there cannot manipulate Shotgun in the 2-2 and the time waiting for the 2p jump for rolling the map takes a lot of time.I can use single player in 1&2 for faster,but I don't do so.The entertainment of two players' run is the key.

Mission 3

800 more faster using dual attack,and manipulate luck in the first boss battle for the Shotgun.

Mission 4

6 frames faster.Lags kill the improvement I think.

Mission 5

400 more frames saved.Dying in the train time.and get two mechine gun and 20 bombs.Using two flame shot to hitting the boss is the key.I have almost 10 experiments in this stage just like do not get the F,Using R,Using the robot hitting,and even more.Finally,I get the best answer.

Mission 6

Manipulate Luck in the last boss's battle,H and L can make the continuous attack.
End this movie.
See you next time and I am in the other plans for MD and Arcade games.

Nach: Judging.

feos: Synched encode is highly needed. Linked what we have for now.

GabCM: Synched encode is here.

DarkKobold: This run has now been sitting on the bench for nearly a month, and Nach has been M.I.A. on this submission, so the senior judge is taking over.
First off, this run is hell to sync, and I have been unable to verify it, despite numerous attempts. This alone would not warrant rejection, as we do have a publishable encode.
Second of all, this run doesn't play at the highest difficulty. Now, this also shouldn't be a sole reason for rejection, especially since it only adds health to bosses. (I actually think the difficulty this is played at should be up for debate.) However, the decision on the previous movie stated that further movies should use the highest difficulty, and I think that should hold weight.
However, the biggest issue is the use of continues, and it is two-fold for this submission.
First off, death would have been sufficient to restore grenades. Continues, on the other hand, gives you a free "Heavy Machine Gun," which is an advantage over the the player's starting stats. So, essentially, you use money to buy a stronger position, which I would equate to the use of a cheat code. In other words, if a code were used to get the heavy machine gun to fall from the sky, it would be viewed in the same light.
Finally, the biggest reason for this rejection is that the use of the continue was poorly done. You died multiple times in the same spot, so that the continue could be used. Now, if continues were going to be used, it would have been trivial to enter the menu, and adjust the number of lives down to one - Or to die in other places, so that grenades could have been reset and used elsewhere. Essentially, it looked like poor planning, and sloppy.
I would reconsider a new submission if the author fixed the use of the continue, and redid the run from there (not fixing the difficulty). As I'm able to get this run to sync up to the end boss, perhaps the first issue would also be taken care of.

DarkKobold: In light of the new rule, this submission was well received, and is being given a second chance. Whether or not it is a rule is no longer a question, but should an exception be made for this movie.

DarkKobold: This movie had a less than positive response. Judging by #3040: X2poet's Arcade Metal Slug: Super Vehicle - 001 in 12:10.23, people prefer a no death run of Metal Slug games.


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KennyMan666
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I did think you were talking about the Mission 5 boss in Metal Slug 1, so yeah, I misunderstood. I can't watch your uploaded replay file (because I'm unwilling to download yet another arcade emulator), but I won't complain about well-used deaths. Continues I however still find inexcusable.
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Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
feos wrote:
Also in Arcade TMNT DarkKobold USES coins to get lives, which at the begining numbered 0 for all turtles. So lifes ARE actually infinite in this run.
Some number of coins must be expended at the start of the game to start playing, but ideally 1) no extra coins should be required once play has begun, and 2) the minimum number of coins needed to start play should be used (which is 4 for DarkKobold's case given that it was a four-player run). If I recall correctly, none of the turtles die in TMNT Arcade; thus, those conditions are met.
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ALAKTORN
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Atma wrote:
In an arcade game, especially one such as this, 1CCing it (even better if you didn't die) is far more entertaining to watch than sloppy death and continuing, even if there is a speed tradeoff.
not in my opinion, that's subjective
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Clearly entertainment is subjective; thus, whenever someone makes a statement about what is more entertaining, you can mentally insert an "in my opinion" at the start of their sentence. No need for them to write it out. I think this is one area where we'll just need an official ruling on how arcade games should be run. Either you should use the bare minimum credits to play the game, or you should be allowed to input extra and then make use of the extra resources they provide. In either case some portion of the audience isn't going to be happy: in the former, because the game is slower due to not having extra deaths available, and in the latter, because making use of extra credits reduces the apparent skill. In both cases of course any generated movie still has to pass the overall-entertainment test -- thus, for example, a run that consisted solely of buying your way to victory, even if that were the fastest strategy, would be unlikely to be accepted.
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feos wrote:
Sonikkustar wrote:
Umm...You know, there is a difference between a game over screen and a continue screen. If it was truly a game over, then the run would be at the first stage.
In NES TMNT 3 we see "Game Over" multiple times, but then 1 life gets borrowed from another player. Also in Arcade TMNT DarkKobold USES coins to get lives, which at the begining numbered 0 for all turtles. So lifes ARE actually infinite in this run.
Yeah, I used that to encode a message, but I never used any credits beyond the first 4 to start, so it was intended to add entertainment, not gain advantage.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
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Posts: 486
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I also aid to gain entertainment for boss battle,not advantage.But the advantage was exactly used.So all of the word you don't like continue is that the difference between continue and death is only has the word continue. Just ignore that word and it will be a good run.Is it so hard to you? Edit:I can't find which one is that I want to show.Maybe someone deleted.And I make this movie not only by 1 computer.Sometime it crashes and I have no choice to pick up the other mechine. Edit2:So it is availiable to add credits in a run and it is acceptable that one take part in the game at anytime. Infinite life cannot help a run get better.Who will show the infinity in a run?That's not the point anyone use continues want to show. I only die one player,and the other is alive.At this time I can't join the dead player?So much precious run has shown that.
Do the work.
ALAKTORN
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I just want to point out that there are 31 yes votes and 9 no/meh combined clearly everyone going "continues aren't entertaining" are a minority
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ALAKTORN wrote:
I just want to point out that there are 31 yes votes and 9 no/meh combined clearly everyone going "continues aren't entertaining" are a minority
Thanks,I've decided my target again.And I will finish mslug1 quickly.This one is only because of the desync and hard mode.I will redo it from now on.
Do the work.
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I think, if X2poet resubmit a syncable run, & if we work out finally, shall he use Countinues or not (is there a poll?), it would be acceptable.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Publisher
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X2poet, I should remind you the reason why this run was rejected was not solely due to the fact you used continues. It may have helped the rejection, but there were other reasons listed by DarkKobold as to the rejection. You should read (or reread) those to make sure it does not get rejected again.
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I have seen it before.The desync problem is caused by fba 003c's crashes.I will redo the level 8 in 005a
Do the work.
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Aktan wrote:
X2poet, I should remind you the reason why this run was rejected was not solely due to the fact you used continues. It may have helped the rejection, but there were other reasons listed by DarkKobold as to the rejection. You should read (or reread) those to make sure it does not get rejected again.
I would say that the use of continues was the main reason, however.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
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DarkKobold wrote:
I would say that the use of continues was the main reason, however.
I had no idea! Well then, shame on you DarkKobold! Wahaha
darkszero
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I say it's more that the continue was badly planned and executed than the fact itself that you used one. I'd say the following would increase the entertaining value of a continue in such run:
  • Add all credits you plan to use at the beginning of the run. Doing so when the "Continue?" screen appears makes it look like "Oh shit, I've out of lives! Where's my extra coin?".
  • Always leave one player alive. Both players dieing at the same time looks forced and stops all the action.
  • Spread the deaths across the run. Try to make use of the extra explosives you gain when the player dies.
Joined: 6/24/2007
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I think x2poet should be appreciated for making the effort to TAS and I look forward to seeing 2p mslug series runs completed. However, I think it is innovative to show the train death once and twice makes it less enjoyable. Perhaps the comment made in the PSX G-Darius thread should be applied: Warp wrote: TASes are not about what a game would look like if a very skilled person played it. They are about what it would look like if a god played it. So just die once but do not continue. mslug1 wip - I thought squatting down lets you chuck bombs faster? mslugx wip - 2nd stage: more shotgun + kill more mummies on the way up please last stage: can the characters take upper and lower level separately instead of running together?
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darkszero wrote:
I say it's more that the continue was badly planned and executed than the fact itself that you used one. I'd say the following would increase the entertaining value of a continue in such run:
  • Add all credits you plan to use at the beginning of the run. Doing so when the "Continue?" screen appears makes it look like "Oh shit, I've out of lives! Where's my extra coin?".
  • Always leave one player alive. Both players dieing at the same time looks forced and stops all the action.
  • Spread the deaths across the run. Try to make use of the extra explosives you gain when the player dies.
FBA cannot edit the manipulation.So I don't know I will add the coins before.So when I know I must do that,I will redo the all movie? In that scene,if not die together,the enemy will run away,or be killed earlier lead to drop in front of the train. In other situation,dying will drag the screen.There is no time to die.The dying time was not enough.How scary.
flashthe wrote:
Warp wrote: mslug1 wip - I thought squatting down lets you chuck bombs faster? mslugx wip - 2nd stage: more shotgun + kill more mummies on the way up please last stage: can the characters take upper and lower level separately instead of running together?
2nd stage:There is no influence to kill or not kill the mummies.Shortgun will cost some lags. last stage:Running together only make sure that dropping on the right place.The final drop should be planned.So jumping together is necessary. The death make less enjoyable thing in the train scene,but mamber changing is made up for the enjoyment,and make more enjoyable for the boss battle.Only 1 bomb is equal to 4 R,and R have slower motion.I will die in the boss's battle to add bombs,also will use continue.I use continue on the train only to avoid that. Edit:With my poor English,I read all of the words who give pro or con to the continue and look up them in the dictionary.And I give my explaination.I must admire all of the members in this forum.How my decision accepted is not important.Only I want to do what most of people want. Metal Slug 1 should have been completed 2 days before,if I tried without your suggestion.But I will try my own style to complete it.
Do the work.
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ALAKTORN wrote:
I just want to point out that there are 31 yes votes and 9 no/meh combined clearly everyone going "continues aren't entertaining" are a minority
I think the majority of rejected runs have a majority of "yes" votes. It's just that the "no" votes tend to carry more weight to them because usually there are good reasons for someone to vote "no". (Although not always. There's at least one person who always votes "no" on any improvement of an existing run as a matter of principle. However, fortunately most "no" voters have good justification for doing so.)
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But these no voters are all for the continue.There are some runs using continue or appearing game over before,that proved that it is acceptable,so I use it to do this. So it is not a good justification here.It isn't out of rule.Otherwise it is unfair for doing arcade run I think.
Do the work.
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X2poet wrote:
But these no voters are all for the continue.There are some runs using continue or appearing game over before,that proved that it is acceptable,so I use it to do this. So it is not a good justification here.It isn't out of rule.Otherwise it is unfair for doing arcade run I think.
Dying and using continues is not banned in general. The submission was downvoted (and rejected) because in this particular case it is seen as severely degrading the quality of the run (from a TASing perspective) and bordering what could be considered cheating (although there probably is no definite consensus about this).
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Obviously hard to do a arcade movie.Only use coins are cheating that means you cannot play arcade.don't throw in the coin,it is cheating.
Do the work.
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Maybe it would help if instead of "Using continues", we use a term like "Feeding coins mid-game".
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Patashu
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Yeah,it's right.And I also can wait counting down to 0.then push start to join the other player.And this is not continue. TAS is not setting target to show 1 coin to beat it.
Do the work.
ALAKTORN
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Patashu wrote:
"Pays too much to beat the game"
1-coin runs are spectacular when a human makes them, in a TAS they're just meh – I perfectly know it's possible and there are already 10 minutes or so of never getting hit so I don't see your point, using continues to save time is smart and is what a TAS should be doing, there is no challenge in beating the game with 1 coin for a TAS, I don't see how that can look entertaining edit: though about the person who said "why not use more lives at the start" I agree with and didn't understand x2poet's explanation
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ALAKTORN wrote:
Patashu wrote:
"Pays too much to beat the game"
1-coin runs are spectacular when a human makes them, in a TAS they're just meh – I perfectly know it's possible and there are already 10 minutes or so of never getting hit so I don't see your point, using continues to save time is smart and is what a TAS should be doing, there is no challenge in beating the game with 1 coin for a TAS, I don't see how that can look entertaining edit: though about the person who said "why not use more lives at the start" I agree with and didn't understand x2poet's explanation
I don't know I will use continue before I do so many different experiment in 5-2 & 5-3. So I haven't added 4 coins at the start.When I know I must continue I cannot go back to the beginning. Tas movie editor cannot open the fbm file.If I want to throw 4 coins,I must redo the whole movie again.Is that meaningful?I know I can add the coins at the beginning but I don't know how many I want.
Do the work.
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