Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2159)
Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania
Please search the forum first: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Joined: 10/27/2008
Posts: 15
Location: Belgium
What? I swear I used the 'Search' function before making this topic. I guess this can get locked. :(
┗(^o^ )┓三   ┏ ┗   三 www.youtube.com/noooodl (That's right, 4 o's)
Editor, Expert player (2331)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
You should use quotation marks (like this: "Monster party" instead of Monster Party, otherwise it searches for both words seperately.)
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
No, I understand about the search engine thing. It doesn't play nice with me either. Ever. Anyway, back on topic, yeah. Monster Party gets little love.
Joined: 10/27/2008
Posts: 15
Location: Belgium
MUGG wrote:
(like this: "Monster party" instead of Monster Party, otherwise it searches for both words seperately.)
Yeah, for that reason, the first topic in the results was a Mega Man one. But still, it doesn't look like anybody is still working on a TAS. Does anyone here think it would be entertaining?
┗(^o^ )┓三   ┏ ┗   三 www.youtube.com/noooodl (That's right, 4 o's)
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
I'm thinking about taking this game on again and finally getting a proper run of it on the site. I did a test run of Round 1 and finished it in 5,967 frames (not counting the 180 frame intro). The difficulties I've had so far are:
    Figuring out which enemies I should damage-boost from, which ones I should kill, and which ones I should just avoid. In my test run, I damage-boosted at every opportunity in Round 1, which left me in a bad position health-wise for Round 2. Practically none of the enemies there can be dodged, and some of them take up to six hits to kill, so damage-boosting through them is necessary. My current plan is to kill the enemies that die in 2-3 hits and boost through everything else. Particular enemies won't appear unless other enemies are killed. The most important use of this involves getting pills, but I only need pills in levels 4 and 7 (it MIGHT save time in 8, but I'm not sure). Getting health pickups isn't worth the agonizingly long wait unless you're already transformed and can use projectiles. There might be a few instances in which killing one enemy will change the enemy lineup down the road, saving time in the end, but I'm not totally sure. Finding and optimal way to kill the pumpkin-head boss in Round 1. His speed is the same as yours, so it's difficult to stay within hitting range, since you lose a bit of speed whenever you attack. Battles involving moving bosses will be tough to optimize (Pumpkin Head, Tempura, Spider, Minotaur, Sphinx) because of this. There are hidden warps in Level 2 that save a LOT of frustrating travel and damage-boosting through unavoidable enemies. So far, I know the locations of two of these, but there doesn't seem to be any info on them on the web that I've found. Could there be more of them? In level 7, you only have to kill 2 out of 3 of the bosses to get the key (in fact, if you kill all 3, you lose the key and can't get it back). I want to be transformed for the entire level, so I imagine the boss lineup will be determined by the number of pills that I can find. Transforming wastes about 3 seconds every time you do it, but collecting additional pills doesn't cost time beyond killing the enemy holding them. There's a major shortcut in level 4 that you can only take if you're transformed, and I think it totally saves more than six seconds of transformation time. Likewise for the vertically-scrolling Level 7. If it's possible, I'd like to keep that transformation through Level 8, since it's the last area of the game, and I'd save 3 seconds by not having to transform back into a human. Is there a way to manipulate the "?" icons that appear after you kill bosses? It only costs a few frames to pick them up after most fights, and if they can be manipulated, I could gain extra health for damage-boosting or extra pills for transformation power in levels 7 and 8.
Okay, that was a bit rambling. I really like this game, particularly the really weird bosses. Name another game that has you fight a giant fried shrimp and onion rings! I think I might be able to clock in at around (or under) 15 minutes, so it wouldn't be a painfully long run to watch.
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1239052105/Monster%20Party%20Test%20Run%202.fm2 Complete Test Run: 52820 Frames (14:38.89) ROM used: Monster Party (U) FCEUX 2.1.4a 5,831 ReRecords There are a few parts that I'd like to redo, but I'd like to get some feedback first. Here are some of my notes on the run: WORLD 1 I take damage to save time (and get a slight boost) at several points in the level. I have to have at least 3 life left over so I can take ten hits in the next area, so I can't take advantage of all the possible damage boosts. EGGPLANT: This boss is killed using the hover glitch, activated by alternating between A and B every other frame while ascending from a jump. DECEASED CRAB: This isn't even really a boss. He just apologizes for being dead (so polite!) and then you leave. Too bad you can't skip him (I tried)... PUMPKIN HEAD: All of the bosses that hop around are tough to optimize. I had to kill him when he got as close to the left side of the screen as possible in order to minimize the time spent walking to the door. I was able to kill this one right after he turned around. WORLD 2 This area, along with World 4, are probably the hardest to TAS because of the tight spaces involved. I used two warps to bypass long stretches of damage boosting, allowing me to come in with less life from stage 1. There are lots of enemies (the puking mouths and the alien eggs) that can't be dodged and take upwards of six hits to kill, so I had to boost through them or else lose a bunch of precious time. I got a nice 2-for-1 boost off a "reverse mermaid" right at the start. The one glaring flaw in this stage, to me, is the fact that I couldn't boost in the proper direction off the mouth after the Medusa fight. This is because I'm on a ladder, which limits my options drastically. I couldn't jump and attack it, because the ladder wouldn't let me move down in time to enter the enemy in order to gain the boost. In the end, I had no choice but to boost in the opposite direction and pass through while invincible. It still saved about a second (as opposed to killing it) but I'm still not happy with this result. MEDUSA: A pretty easy boss - I used the Hover Glitch at the farthest possible point to minimize the time spent walking back to the door. I also had to find a spot that would deflect all of the snakes. TEMPURA: Probably the weirdest boss of all, you have to fight three bosses in a row - a fried shrimp, an onion ring, and three on a stick! They all appear in the same place, so positioning isn't as crucial as in other boss battles, so I concentrated on pure speed here, getting in as many hits as possible with as little delay as possible. I used the hover glitch to deal damage multiple times without having to move, most notably against the skewer. HAUNTED WELL: Just like the Medusa, this battle consisted of finding a spot that deflected the projectiles (plates in this case) and was as far away from the boss as possible to minimize travel time. WORLD 3 This stage wasn't too hard - I only took a few damage boosts because I needed lots of health for the following stage. Not that there are terribly many opportunities, anyway... In the part where the road splits (after the Umbrella Bats) it's about a half second faster to take the low road. MINOTAUR: This boss is the first one so far that doesn't have a set pattern - he reacts to your actions, and thus can be manipulated to move as far to the left as possible. I jumped over him a few times to move him to the left, saving lots of time in the end. MUMMY: This boss is one of the harder ones to optimize - he moves like the Minotaur, but also shoots lots of projectiles, limiting your movement possibilities. I think I did pretty well against him, though... I got him to the left side of the screen and trapped him there. SPIDER: This boss, unlike the other two, has a pattern. He's similar to the Pumpkin Head except that his projectiles seem more accurate. This will not be the last time you see him, either, so beware... WORLD 4 This was probably the hardest stage to TAS in the game. This is the first time that I take pills to transform into Bert, a flying dragon-bird-thing-guy that shoots lasers. I do this to take advantage of a shortcut that saves far more time than the six seconds lost to the transformation sequence. I had an extra point of health left over. This is because I was going to boost through the last moving block. but it turned out to be a few frames faster to just fly over it. I might try to edit in another damage boost, but that might desync things. We'll see... SLOWPOKE SAMURAI: This boss is the slowest of the moving bosses, so I was able to use the hover glitch to practically double (or even triple) my damage output against him. CAT: Another stationary boss - as a cat owner, I feel bad having to harm a kitteh, but that's what the game wants me to do, so I guess I have to do it. Also, it appears to throw dead mice at me, which is kinda nasty. PUNK ROCKER: This is the first boss that I fight as Bert, and he's a nasty one. His pattern isn't that different than the Spider's, but the fact that I'm playing as Bert, who can't deflect projectiles, makes it a frustrating battle, indeed. This battle could probably be improved. WORLD 5 ZOMBIES: No, the movie hadn't desynced... to beat this boss, you just have to wait about 30 seconds and watch their dance. If you hit them, they'll start all over again. I decided, out of my own free will, to hump the floor in time to the music instead of just standing around. HANIWA: I tried approaching this boss from the front, but it's actually faster to go around back and hit him in the shoulder. This is the last boss that I fight without transforming... WORLD 6 This level is a maze of doors with only one boss. I transformed into Bert for the last time - I take pills at strategic locations to keep my transformation through the rest of the game. CHAMELEON: He dies in like 4 hits. Yawn... WORLD 7 This level is vertical, and thus the flying Bert is a huge help here. There are three bosses in this stage, but you only have to kill two of them. Because of having to keep my transformation going, I decided to take on Royce and the Spider, leaving the Grim Reaper out of it. ROYCE: If I do this run again, I'll try taking a hit against him to see if it saves time (as opposed to having extra health to damage boost in the next stage). SPIDER II: For some reason, this guy has the number "II" written on him. He's even easier than before... WORLD 8 This is the last stage - just three regular bosses, and then the final boss! DRAGON: This is the only boss battle in which I take damage to save time. I was able to manipulate him into staying to the left, thus saving oodles of time. ZOMBIE: Ducking and shooting as Bert gives a short-range shot that can be rapidly fired. This is put to good use here. MUMMY MASK: Like Royce, I could PROBABLY take some damage to save time here. I'm not sure if it's really worth it, though. FINAL BOSS This boss's weak point is his nose. He has to open his nose in order for you to hit him. I was able to manipulate him into opening his nose as frequently as possible (as far as I've tried...). He only takes seven shots - I did four the first time, and three the second.
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
Here's my full WIP on YouTube: Link to video After watching my WIP several times and working on some optimizations, I've decided to slightly alter my route to save time: STAGE 4 WIP: I get pills from a scorpion in a corridor in order to fly up to the third boss fight. NEW ROUTE: The cat boss drops a "?" item which can be manipulated to get pills. This would more than likely be faster than killing the scorpion and wasting ~30 frames waiting for it to explode and drop the pills. I go by the "?" item anyway, and it only costs a minimum of 2 frames to get it (you lose 1 frame when jumping and another one when landing). It may take up to ten more frames to manipulate it into giving pills instead of health or points, but I think it will still be faster than killing the scorpion. STAGE 6 WIP: I take a slight detour and destroy a chair to get pills to make my final transformation. NEW ROUTE: As before, it would probably be faster to get the pills after a boss battle - this time, against the Chameleon boss. This boss likes to be an asshole and hide in the upper-right corner, but I feel that I might be able to manipulate its movements and keep it in one spot while using the Hover Glitch to destroy it without (ideally) having to move. I've started on a new version - I'm up to the middle of level 3 and I've already saved 474 frames. Some of the input is the same as the WIP, but I've added in some damage boosts and health pickups to speed things up.
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Watched a good portion of your WIP - the only thing I noticed is you had health left at the end of level 1 - Otherwise, the run is looking good
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
DarkKobold wrote:
Watched a good portion of your WIP - the only thing I noticed is you had health left at the end of level 1 - Otherwise, the run is looking good
Thanks. In the WIP I went into level 2 with 11 health so I could boost through some otherwise impassable enemies there. In my latest version I finish level 1 with one health and pick up health after two bosses in level 2 in order to maximize my boosts.
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Autofiring is usually not good, in the case of flying in level 7. Especially coming out of a door. You may be losing one frame by the autofire kicking in one frame after the optimal frame. It's just bad practice, unless you've already proven that the exact frame doesn't affect the result. Have you been monitoring your X position to maximize damage boosts? (http://tasvideos.org/MemorySearch.html -- If anything is unclear on this page, please PM me and I'll clarify it. The page is a bit of a work in progress.) Have you looked into how much time the automatic health regenerations cost? They seem kind of time consuming to me, and may be canceling out most of your gain from damage boosting. How fast would it be if you were at full health at these points? Overall though, pretty good execution. I feel like some bosses could end closer to the door, but just do as well as you can. As for the movie ending, you need to hit A after he says "Let's go again" and then end the input.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
Kirkq wrote:
Autofiring is usually not good, in the case of flying in level 7. Especially coming out of a door. You may be losing one frame by the autofire kicking in one frame after the optimal frame. It's just bad practice, unless you've already proven that the exact frame doesn't affect the result.
Autofire is the fastest way to rise vertically when flying. I've been manually finding the optimal starting frame when coming out of doors or changing screens, though.
Have you been monitoring your X position to maximize damage boosts? (http://tasvideos.org/MemorySearch.html -- If anything is unclear on this page, please PM me and I'll clarify it. The page is a bit of a work in progress.)
Yes, but it's not terribly useful for boosting. I mostly monitor my position during boss fights to make sure that I'm as close to the door as possible when making my final hit.
Have you looked into how much time the automatic health regenerations cost? They seem kind of time consuming to me, and may be canceling out most of your gain from damage boosting. How fast would it be if you were at full health at these points?
Do you mean the ones at the end of each stage? Those can't be skipped, unfortunately. You'll always get 8 health back at the end of each stage no matter how much you have (I'm not sure if it still takes time if you're at full health, but getting that kind of kills the point of saving time in the first place).
Overall though, pretty good execution. I feel like some bosses could end closer to the door, but just do as well as you can.
Thanks. The bosses with set patterns are the hardest to get to the door. Some of them can be manipulated to get closer (such as the first two in level 3) and some are stationary and can't move at all. I redid several of the boss fights and saved around 100 frames each against Pumpkin Head and the first Giant Spider. Against the stationary guys, I found that you can gain a frame by moving towards the door on the frame before your last hit lands.
As for the movie ending, you need to hit A after he says "Let's go again" and then end the input.
I'll make sure to do that before submitting... :)
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1663470082/Monster%20Party%20%28U%29-0.fm2 Monster Party 2nd Attempt: 51,399 Frames at last attack, 55,154 total. Same ROM and emulator info as before. 7,532 Rerecords This is an improvement of 1,421 frames over my test run. I made this run with my test run playing side-by-side in another emulator window and I went through, frame by frame, improving everything I could. WORLD 1: I took a few extra damage boosts here, ending the stage with one life remaining. There are still a few more boosts I could have taken - I plan on doing this stage again, picking up the health after the Eggplant boss (-2 frames), getting four more damage boosts (8-16 frames), and still ending with just one life. EGGPLANT: I shaved a few frames by getting in an early hit with one of his bubbles. I could have saved 1 frame by turning left on the frame before my last hit registers, but I figured this out after finishing this stage and I couldn't hex it in without desyncs. Go figure... DECEASED CRAB: Huzzah! PUMPKIN HEAD: I saved about a hundred frames here thanks to better positioning, timing my hits, and killing him closer to the door. WORLD 2: The biggest change here is that I take health from two of the three bosses and take several more boosts. Because I have more health, I'm able to damage boost in a few places that I avoided last run (like a drip from the ceiling and a crocodile's tail) and through some enemies that I had to kill last time. I also found a faster way to get up ladders which involves not grabbing them at all. MEDUSA: I saved a frame by turning away right before my last hit registered. Besides that and taking the health, not much was changed here. TEMPURA: This battle always makes me hungry. Each of the three fights was improved by positioning myself better. HAUNTED WELL: When you're hitting an enemy's projectiles back at it while hitting it with your bat, occasionally you'll deal extra damage. I'm not sure how this works, but it happened here, and saved several frames. I think it has to do with the projectile hitting on the same frame as the bat, but I can't prove it... WORLD 3: I hate having to end a stage with excess health, but it was necessary here in order to survive the next area. I still took a few damage boosts, though. MINOTAUR: This fight was sped up a ton thanks to better manipulation of his movements. I used the hover glitch a few times against this guy, too. MUMMY: This was one of the most frustrating battles to manipulate, but after many attempts I managed to save about a second here. SPIDER: Watching this battle again, I see a place where I could have saved time by manipulating him into not jumping. Even with that, it was much faster than the original test run. WORLD 4: This is where I changed my route slightly and saved about a half second - I got pills from the cat boss instead of from killing the crocodile. This saves the time spent waiting for the enemy to explode. Lots of damage boosts here - most of them are tough to get because of the game's collision detection and total lack of momentum when moving. Several times I had to hit an enemy, go inside it while it's flashing, and then take the hit. Right before the first boss battle, I hit a snake with my bat for no obvious reason. This is because I was able to pass through it during its brief after-damage invincibility (which apparently works both ways in this game). I wasn't able to get a decent boost, so this was the next best solution. The biggest problem with this stage is a random shot that can't be hexed out without desyncing the following boss fight. I'm not sure how it got in there - I don't remember doing it - but it's there, and I can't get rid of it. SLOWPOKE SAMURAI: I got a pattern down that let me deal damage as quickly as possible against this guy. CAT IN A BOX: I hit one of the dead mice back at it for some early damage - otherwise, it's a straightforward fight against a stationary boss. This is where I get my pills in this run. PUNK ROCKER: Fighting as Bert before he gets his twin lasers is a total nightmare. I morph back into Mark at the end, but not soon enough to do any damage as him, unfortunately. WORLD 5: This world is really relaxing after the previous hellish area - there's only one real boss battle, after all. I could have taken a few more damage boosts here, but I was being overly cautious and saving some health for the labyrinth. DANCING ZOMBIES: I made the floor humping more accurate... that's an improvement, right? HANIWA: This is another example of somehow dealing extra damage with enemy projectiles. I wish I knew how to do this at will, since it would save a lot of time against most of the bosses. WORLD 6: It turns out that it's much faster to kill the Chameleon boss as Bert, so I followed the same route as last time. There isn't too much here that's improved from the test run. I found out that you lose a frame of movement every time lightning strikes, but there doesn't seem to be any way to control it. CHAMELEON: I was able to manipulate his position to be more favorable than in the last run. WORLD 7: I made lots of little improvements here that saved hundreds of frames in total. I discovered that, when flying next to a ladder, you can press down and then up on the next frame to grab it immediately if your position is right. I grabbed every ladder at the closest pixel, and optimized my flying to waste as little time as possible. ROYCE: This is actually a very strange fight for one reason - there's something wrong with the "?" item that appears after the fight that makes it impossible to grab for a number of frames. I found a way to take damage to beat the boss really quickly, but that must have messed with the "?" item or something. It turns out that defeating Royce the fast way and getting the pills from the ghost outside the door is about a second faster than waiting for the "?" icon to activate or beating Royce the old way. SPIDER MK.II: Nothing too special about this fight... pretty standard if you ask me. I made sure to end in the best possible position to grab the "?" icon to recharge my pill power. WORLD 8: I had to pass up a few opportunities to damage boost because of differences in health management from the test run, but I still came out far ahead by optimizing my flight patterns. When Bert's sprite changes mid-flight, sometimes you'll freeze in place for a frame. If you flap your wings on the frame before that, though, you'll avoid losing it, but you'll fly up. I found a good pattern of rising up and gliding down which minimizes lost frames. I also spent more time walking, since you don't lose frames on the ground. DRAGON: I was able to take one less hit against him and still save a bunch of time from improved manipulation of his movements. ZOMBIE: I improved my duck-and-shoot strategy and saved some time here by being closer to the "?" item at the end of the fight. MUMMY MASK: It turns out that you can duck under him as he dashes around and take no damage. Thanks to the rapid-fire ducking shot, I saved a ton of time on this fight. FINAL BOSS: I'm still not sure how to manipulate his weak point to appear, but somehow I sped it up considerably. I just redid the fight dozens of times until it was faster than the test run. IMPROVEMENTS: There are a number of little things that I want to improve before submitting this run. I want to grab health after the eggplant boss in stage 1 and take four additional damage boosts there. I also want to change my flight patterns in stages 4, 6, and 7 to account for my discovery of the dropped frames while in flight. All in all, I don't suspect that I'll save much more than another 100 frames without the discovery of any major glitches. Then again, I thought my test run was pretty good, but then I took off almost 24 seconds from it... The problem with optimizing this run is that this game desyncs really easily - I tried editing out the stray shot in world 4 and it ruined the next boss fight. Likewise, changing one frame against the eggplant boss made the following boss's shot patterns change. EDIT: I'm only halfway through stage 2 and I've already saved exactly 200 frames through better boss fights and by gaining pixels through falling properly. So much for my estimates...
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
The new version is now on YouTube: Link to video I'm improving the first stage again, and already I've found a few little things that could save more time. If you damage-boost while falling off a platform, your x position is bumped up by 2. If these stack, I could save even more frames from each boost. Also, it's possible to enter doors earlier than you're supposed to if you're in the middle of a damage boost. EDIT: It's not just when you fall off a platform when boosting - you gain two pixels whenever you fall off a platform, and the gains stack! The only problem is that you lose two pixels whenever you damage boost. This requires a delicate balance between jumping, falling, and boosting. Whenever you jump, you lose 1 frame when you first push the button and one frame when you land. When you fall, you don't lose any frames, and you gain 2 pixels, which translates into 2 frames when you enter a door. When you get a damage boost, you gain between 2 and 6 frames, depending on how early you have to turn away from the enemy, how many frames of waiting you have to do before getting hit, and whether you're flying or not at the time. You also lose 2 x pixels. So, it looks like the best way to maximize speed is to jump only when necessary, take damage boosts when x=143 (default value for walking right), and fall off platforms to increase x when it doesn't require extra jumping.
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
Update: Still working on improving this run. I just finished off the Punk Rocker at the end of stage 4 about 100 frames faster than before, bringing my total savings up to 511 frames over the second run and 1,932 frames faster than my test run. I've gained at least a few frames on every boss fight so far - some of them, like the Samurai and most of the stationary bosses, could only be improved by 2-4 frames, but I've had some major breakthroughs against the Pumpkin Head, the Tempura Trio, all of the Stage 3 bosses, and the Punk Rocker. Here's my latest WIP up to stage 4: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/722707209/Monster%20Party%20%28U%29-1%20-%20Copy.fm2 Unless anyone has any major suggestions that would make it worthwhile to run through the game again, I think this version will be the one I submit. One question I'd like to throw out there: what tags would be appropriate for this run? I'm definitely doing "aims for fastest time," "manipulates luck," and "takes damage to save time," but are the warps I use enough to qualify for "uses warps?" I only warp within the level, not between levels like in SMB. I think it's more like a shortcut than a warp. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Joined: 5/14/2007
Posts: 525
Location: Pisces-Cetus filament
You are doing an awesome job with this game. If this movie is published (and it will most likely be), this has to be the screenshot. :P
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!
Dwedit
He/Him
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago
I thought the music to Level 4 sounded like it was straight out of Zelda Oracle of Seasons/Ages.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
Update: Still working on optimization - 771 774 frames saved over my last attempt. I found a much better strategy against the haniwa boss in stage 5 - each javelin hit back at him deals 3 damage, as opposed to bat attacks, which deal 1. I was able to manipulate him to constantly throw javelins at me, and all in all, I saved several seconds by not having to walk behind him and back to the door. The zombie "boss battle" now has frame-perfect floor humping action. I lost 2 frames after leaving the second boss battle due to bad luck hitting a damage boost - I just couldn't get everything to line up properly and I had to wait for the enemy to hit me. Being a perfectionist, I redid the last 1/3 of the level a half dozen times trying to make it as fast as possible, but I just couldn't make up the two frames without taking extra boosts, which jeopardize my health management in the following stages. Stage 6 is taking a long time to optimize because I figured out how to manipulate the lightning. When redoing my test run, I was puzzled as to why I randomly lost frames in this area. I noticed that these lost frames only happened when lightning struck, but I didn't know that it could be controlle. Every time lightning strikes, you freeze in place for one frame. However, the lightning isn't on a timer as I previously thought - it's pseudorandom an can be manipulated by jumping/attacking on different frames or by entering an area on a different frame. The best way I've found to manipulate the lightning is to waste a frame or two before entering a door - if you get two or three fewer strikes in the following area, the slight delay is worth it. Some rooms have been improved by 4-5 frames just through lightning manipulation. I also improved my destruction of the chair and the subsequent grabbing of the pills - the chair moves faster than your character, so I lured it towards the door and cut down on my travel time a bit. The chameleon boss battle was shortened by about a half second by manipulating him into running into my shots again after being hit. I was able to get him to do this twice, allowing me to end the battle closer to the door. I suspect that stage 7 will be pretty easy to optimize, since all I have to do is make sure I don't lose any frames while flying. The battle with Royce is already quite good IMO, so I doubt I can improve on it unless I figure out how to get rid of that weird glitch that doesn't let me grab the "?" item. Stage 8 will likely be improved quite a bit thanks to better flying with fewer dropped frames. I'm not at a good spot to post a WIP, but if I finish stage 6 tonight I'll edit it into this post. EDIT: Level 6 finished! http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1714452749/Monster%20Party%20%28U%29-1%20-%20Copy.fm2 Horray for insomnia!
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Skilled player (1417)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
I just thought of this a little late. Could you save a little time on bosses by walking towards the exit before they die and then kill them with a reflected projectile or two?
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I haven't seen the run either, but I just found out a little falling faster trick. If you hold down in mid-air, you'll fall super fast, but you'll only fall straight down. It limits the trick use, but I didn't know if you were aware of this or not.
Player (203)
Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 108
Ferret Warlord wrote:
I just thought of this a little late. Could you save a little time on bosses by walking towards the exit before they die and then kill them with a reflected projectile or two?
In my current version, I do this against a few mobile bosses (offhand, Pumpkin Head and the first Giant Spider come to mind). Against stationary bosses, I tested it a bit but it doesn't seem to save any frames, but if I was to make an improvement, I'd test it further. To make such a maneuver worthwhile, the number of pixels gained has to be greater than the number of frames spent jumping, landing, attacking, and turning around. Also, the enemy projectiles have to be manipulated to be fired at the proper angle at the proper time. To complicate matters further, against most stationary bosses, I grab the "?" items in the middle of the screen to replenish my health. A minor gain towards the door probably wouldn't affect this, but any major gains using this technique would require the run's health management and damage boosting to be totally recalculated. Of course, if it ends up saving time, I'll do it...
Rick wrote:
I haven't seen the run either, but I just found out a little falling faster trick. If you hold down in mid-air, you'll fall super fast, but you'll only fall straight down. It limits the trick use, but I didn't know if you were aware of this or not.
Yes, I'm aware of the usage of the down button, but it's not particularly useful for gaining speed. In Monster Party, horizontal progress is much more important than vertical progress, even in vertical areas such as level 7. Horizontally, you will always move one pixel per frame (exceptions: damage and edge boosting). Also, the screen only scrolls horizontally, so any progress has to be made on that axis. Therefore, vertical speed isn't particularly important here. In fact, Bert's "slow" gliding and Mark's "fast" down-button-falling are, in the end, the same speed.
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.