I liked the run all in all, and I cast a YES-vote. Using continues is an innovative way to save time in this game.

What's the current status of judging this run? It's been "judging underway" for a very long time.

sgrunt, I think it's quite hard to judje something, watching only an encode. Or a desynced movie...

Would this mean x2poet submitted an unjudgable movie? I hope not, since it's a great movie and it should be accepted, IMO.

I'm back and I agree with Mister Epic, this should be accepted, I'm amazed with this work. yes vote.

om, nom, nom

DarkKobold: Continues, on the other hand, gives you a free "Heavy Machine Gun," which is an advantage over the the player's starting stats. So, essentially, you use money to buy a stronger position, which I would equate to the use of a cheat code. In other words, if a code were used to get the heavy machine gun to fall from the sky, it would be viewed in the same light. (...) it would have been trivial to enter the menu, and adjust the number of lives down to one

Since using the continue looks like a cheat code, I wonder how a bad idea it would be to set the initial amount of lives to 3 or 4 instead of 1, so the deaths wouldn't bring up neither a game over nor the Heavy Machine Gun.

I have said that setting lives down to one is equal to cheat just like turbo mode for the other games. Using continue is availiable in a game,why it cannot use? If continue means game over,all the games need not set the continue system. Arcade's continue need the coins.If it can throw the coin in FC,is that a bad choice? And if set 1 coin for 1 life,it will not be faster because of the dying time.So it is no use.

Using continue is availiable in a game,why it cannot use?

You say this, and you say you "didn't want to spend 20 seconds hitting the trains with the pistol". By this logic, a run of, say, Mega Man 2 that uses a password to skip all the robot master stages should be perfectly acceptable and obsolete the previous run because the password is available in the game, and the runner says he didn't want to spend all the time it takes going through the robot master stages. It helps beat the game faster, so it should be accepted, right? (I'm well aware of how that's not the exact situation, I'm just exaggerating a bit to show why the argument doesn't hold up.)

I have said that setting lives down to one is equal to cheat just like turbo mode for the other games. Using continue is availiable in a game,why it cannot use?

Setting lives down is not available in the game because it requires manipulating hardware (in this case, dip switches), correct? Well, in that case you should consider that coin slot is also a hardware device that is being manipulated externally by using, well, coins — which aren't available in the game. There's really no difference. Making things faster is not an absolute rule as you may have noticed, as otherwise we would have been using all kinds of cheats and passwords that could help this goal. The goal is making things faster by being super. My personal opinion is that credit-feeding for free weapons is not super, but cheap. Don't take it personally; this was a grey area that had no prior discussion that could make things more clear before you submitted the run.

I don't understand why using continues is wrong. I mean, I thought some runs use death to save time? In this case, it was to skip the train? Edit: Oh, you use coins. I never knew they weren't allowed.

They never were prohibited either! It's the reason we have this debate.

you can use coins in an arcade, the run does nothing illicit? I don't see the problem with using continues, human players can too, you need coins to start the game anyway so saying it's bad because you use coins doesn't make sense about the "super" and "cheap", I thought it was very smart when I saw him abuse death in the TAS, it looked "super" to me

That sort of thing is incredibly subjective though. I thought it was pretty cool the first time I saw it. I stopped thinking it was cool when he gameovered because of it and started thinking it was cheap.

Using continue is availiable in a game,why it cannot use?

You say this, and you say you "didn't want to spend 20 seconds hitting the trains with the pistol". By this logic, a run of, say, Mega Man 2 that uses a password to skip all the robot master stages should be perfectly acceptable and obsolete the previous run because the password is available in the game, and the runner says he didn't want to spend all the time it takes going through the robot master stages. It helps beat the game faster, so it should be accepted, right? (I'm well aware of how that's not the exact situation, I'm just exaggerating a bit to show why the argument doesn't hold up.)

Well,is continue equal to cheat,or equal to using password to jump the scene? Continue has been used and it is acceptble before only for aiming faster,but using password is just skiping the level,can anyone accept that? And I want to ask about whether it is acceptable that using the password for redoing my American gradiators on the NES? Most of people in this run can accept the continue,so it is acceptble. Nobody will accept using password means it is not acceptble. Right? And now my mslug 1 in MISSION 5,the boss I must die for adding 20 bombs. Shall I take death? Every coin has two sides.Somebody like faster,and somebody like no death,right? Now what shall I do? http://www.mediafire.com/?6pkyz5b5em0f98u

Dying and using a continue is different. Dying is alright.

Continue is more equal to cheating, actually. In this case, the cheats in question would be infinite lives and spawning powerups from nowhere. Also, what moozooh said.

Continue is more equal to cheating, actually. In this case, the cheats in question would be infinite lives and spawning powerups from nowhere. Also, what moozooh said.

So why Guerilla War is acceptable? Also use continue to add infinity lives. There are the main reasons why I struggle to use continue. 1.Making the jumping after the train smoothly. 2.Making sure that boss battle have enough items because of the power of R is very low. 3.Machine Gun can hit the 5-3 door smoothly and need not wait the door destroyed. 4.continue is not only used in this game,some other games in this web have used continue and borrowing lives. 5.If squarrel king can use continue,I have no doubt to use continue for adding more lives. 6.Continue is availiable in Arcade but just need coins,if coin is the problem,well the PS version can? 7.Continue can make 4 members jump out to show in this run. 8.It can be regarded as a script. 9.It can avoid many lags. 10.It can make the dropping place right to get the Frameshot. 11.Using pistals to hit the train looks stupid. 12.I can only die 2 lives.But dying three lives have more advantage for entertaining this run.And this add the entertainment but other games do not have the chance to use this.If I have 4 lives is it a problem? 13.There are 20 more different experiments that I take no death there,it will make the boss battle looks foolish.Not only because of the longer time. ......Is it enough?May I show the copy files that I take no death there? I really don't want do that,because I don't know which is the one I want to show.

So some games in Gen or SFC,it has chances to continue and it can be used for making a TAS run. Monster in my pocket on the NES,The other player come up in the games for going on running.And one player die the other goes adding 1 life.On and on and on.Does it means life's ending represent the player cannot control? These runs are my special insperation and smart style I insist on. The appearance in this run has no difference.Only appears two mechine gun.I don't really want that H guns,but it must appear,so may I ignore it? Only arcade have no chance,it is only an unfair thing. Edit:And most of arcade games have no bonus life.If it can,there may be no need we struggle with each other. Edit 2:

Continue is more equal to cheating, actually. In this case, the cheats in question would be infinite lives and spawning powerups from nowhere. Also, what moozooh said.

Only because not much games before need to use continue,if one game which is convenient to use continue someone take it earlier,it will not be a problem now. Edit 3: and after I finish mslug 1,I will pick up to redo it for highest difficulty and insist on using continue.I will try to avoid the desync problem.

So why Guerilla War is acceptable? Also use continue to add infinity lives.

Did you see me or KennyMan voting yes on it? I suppose not. Not all of us have time and motivation to watch every submission. If I had watched it prior to it being published, I would have found it unacceptable there as well. But it has been accepted for over two years, and it's impossible to change it. However, it doesn't mean something in present is justified only because it didn't attract attention the first time(s) in the past.

There are 20 more different experiments that I take no death there,it will make the boss battle looks foolish.Not only because of the longer time.

We never had a chance to see if it was really foolish, less entertaining, or anything else. Maybe you could show us if this is really the case?

ehm, excuse me? you can do it in a real arcade, how is it cheating in any way? it's just a trick to go faster

I am give up.™ The argument against using continues is already reiterated on pretty much every page of this thread as well as the other thread already. I'll recap it for you. In arcades, using continues is quite literally buying your way out of a game over. This is done so that less capable players, or those still learning the game, could reach farther, see more of the game, and eventually improve, all the while giving profit to the arcade operators. But pretty much all arcade games punish the player for this by marking or invalidating their score and, in some cases, depriving them from seeing the true final boss of the game, making it incomparable with those done on one credit because credit-feeding gives unfair advantage in form of endless lives and free additional weaponry. In my opinion, making game easier by tapping into an infinite resource left open by developers for a very particular reason of aiding the incapable goes against the very notion of superplay, whether it's done for speed, for score, or for being awesome. Just doing something faster is not a goal in itself because there are numerous ways to do that that aren't used because they are accepted to be foul play. In fact, making stuff harder for the player is the accepted norm. There has never been any decision on this in regards to using continues in arcade, arcade ports, and arcade-like games, hence why it needs to have this discussion and this discussion needs to come to some kind of consensus reflected in the rules.

If I have 4 lives is it a problem?

Well, is it a problem if you have 40? It defeats the point of having lives in the first place. The point which I thought was to use them wisely where it gives the maximum benefit, not to use them everywhere possible just because you can always get more on a whim by abusing the most banal and frowned upon way to gain them.

Some arcade amusement place has 5 lives at first for getting more people play. Just because this game's life is not enough to do a good run.Continue is more important in Level 8. Is it really killing the entertainment only show the word "CONTINUE"? What is the difference between it and die for watching. I really must say thanks that you have the patience to talk with me.

moozooh: A question for you. Let's say in this game, using a continue in level 1 can warp you to the end level. Obviously this would be a "glitched" category, but would you then say the use of a continue is acceptable?

But there have not this glitch. That using method is different way. It cannot be regarded as this one.

But there have not this glitch. That using method is different way. It cannot be regarded as this one.

Oh, I know, I was just posting a semi off-topic theoretical question.