Posted: 1/24/2011 3:34 AM
Post subject: Exploiting bugs in game's cheat codes handling routines
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IsraeliRD
Player (194)
Joined: 10/23/2010
Posts: 49
Location: Australia
I was talking to Nach about Hocus Pocus and it led into discussion about the game's cheat codes. Typing any of these results in the following: BANANA - 3 laser shots FEELGOOD - 100% health QUARK - rapid fire BLAKE - Gold + Silver keys After some discussion, Nach stumbled upon a bug: As long as the first key (B, F, Q) is in the right spot, any of the remaining letters can come at any place, and it would award you their respective bonus. For example, bnnaaa gives you 3 laser shots, bekal gives you both keys etc. However, there are additional bugs: Writing bnanana gives you 100% health, but no laser shots Writing bananana (or a misspelling that ends with the 4th 'na' [e.g. bnnaaana]) gives you both Laser and Health bonuses. However, this may be half intentional. The question for TASvideos is now this: Can you exploit a bug in the game's cheat handling routines and have it accepted in a TAS? Remember: an unbugged cheat code is NEVER used.
Posted: 1/24/2011 4:05 AM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
Psychologically it looks like a normal cheat code, so no.
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Posted: 1/24/2011 4:27 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
It may not even be a bug, just the way a game handles cheat code input. Why would you do that anyway?
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Posted: 1/24/2011 4:56 AM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
Cheat code is a cheat code, so no.
Posted: 1/24/2011 5:57 AM
Post subject: Re: Exploiting bugs in game's cheat codes handling routines
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
IsraeliRD wrote:
The question for TASvideos is now this: Can you exploit a bug in the game's cheat handling routines and have it accepted in a TAS? Remember: an unbugged cheat code is NEVER used.
The problem I see isn't so much the rules, as the entertainment factor. These cheat codes are going to appear to the viewer to be the same as entering a normal cheat code. Therefore, it will make your character more powerful, without adding to the entertainment. Generally speaking, we try and slate things against our character as much as possible, by selecting highest difficulty, using a code to make the game MORE difficult, and more. Then, the movie looks more impressive when the hero dances and prances through the game. This is the real reason cheat codes aren't generally accepted.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 1/24/2011 6:13 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
You reminded me of the idea to use a cheat in Wario Land to set the timer to exactly the amount of time it takes to complete the level, so that technically it's making the game as "difficult" as possible. But that's pointless: It doesn't really raise the danger level when in a TAS you know Wario isn't going to die, and if the viewer wants to know how long a level took, they can look at the time left over and subtract it from the starting amount. No need for the TASer to do that and go to the trouble of retroactively inserting it at the beginning for no real gain. Doing so only turns the timer into a run-specific countdown, which could ruin the element of surprise by revealing how long the level is going to take and how close Wario is to finishing. So when you propose entering cheat codes, you have to think about whether you're really enhancing the struggle your character is going through, or whether you just want to show off that you "thought of everything" by coming up with a way to excuse a silly cheat on a technicality.
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Posted: 1/24/2011 6:30 AM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
You reminded me of the idea to use a cheat in Wario Land to set the timer to exactly the amount of time it takes to complete the level, so that technically it's making the game as "difficult" as possible.
I actually think that would be really cool. You'd see e.g. 12 seconds and think 'WTF, how's he going to pull that off?'
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Posted: 1/24/2011 6:39 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
There are a few cases where cheat codes are acceptable. I think there has been a precedent for all of the following: If there's a bug that changes the effects of a cheat code, then it should be treated as a separate code (i.e. usable only with sufficient approval for it in particular). If there's a bug that simply makes it possible to enter a cheat code faster that you were already going to enter anyway, then of course it should be used.
Posted: 3/6/2011 6:54 PM
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2364)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
cheat codes are acceptable (...) if it arguably isn't a cheat because the player is expected to use it because it is in the manual
In my Daffy Duck run I didn't use ingame codes that would refill your health or fuel (?) or change your weapons because after entering the "glitch world" you are given a ton of points that you need to enter those codes and it makes the game much easier (usually you get said points by killing enemies). So I decided to not use those codes so it is more impressive - However, maybe changing weapons could make the run more fun to watch...
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