Sorry for a little late reply. I was out on this weekend.
Well, I’ve not TASed around there yet so I don’t know whether it’s improvable or not but it looks good. If I say an improvement, please controll only one character when new BGMs are loaded. It’s slightly faster, I think.
I won’t be able to advise from now on.
Now I’m holding my wip. The 3rd character has fewer opportunities for str. glitch. It means if I choose Hawk, my Hawk is slightly weaker than praetarius3’s. So I’ll take more time to think which Riesz or Hawk is better though I’ll probably choose Hawk.
Instead, I’d rather practice boss battles. I couldn’t even cancel FMH’s HealLight. I feel bad about boss battles. On the other hand, I doubt AI-ignorance trick is almighty. Infinite attacks with L/R or START have higher DPS than double attacks with holding A but they don’t help AI-ignorance trick. I have to test or practice. So I won’t progress my wip for a while.
If you can't max str, you better stick with Riesz, because Hawk suffers double for every str not gotten. At best he'd be as strong as my "low str glitched" Kevin (needs twice as many attacks on a molebear than Hawk)
Anyway, what I thought of as "new" last time:
when I run and am about to enter battle mode, I can delay this entering by walking a step where I would draw weapon otherwise, then run again; maybe repeat, but I didn't have such a long runnable path yet, or rather I did have such a one, but that was right at the beginning of the game after Hawk leaves Jad where the 2 wolves wait (when someone makes another SD3 Tas get your free 50+ frames there)
Anyway, what I thought of as "new" last time:
when I run and am about to enter battle mode, I can delay this entering by walking a step where I would draw weapon otherwise, then run again; maybe repeat, but I didn't have such a long runnable path yet, or rather I did have such a one, but that was right at the beginning of the game after Hawk leaves Jad where the 2 wolves wait (when someone makes another SD3 Tas get your free 50+ frames there)
Sorry but I may have a misunderstanding about this thing. Would you mind showing me on smv?
here, more or less same I did in the WiP
but...
I couldn't get it to work where I thought it would have saved some time... it seems to work only for left and up directions; and it only goes up to a certain range towards the enemies, but a few frames at least more running.
More explanation:
in the situation above only running upward with both resulted in weapon drawing about where i take a normal step; running with Hawk alone let me go the same distance as with the trick, so it's really only about going to the limit, not beyond it sadly.
Thanks, I see at least the way of inputting keys.
In the meantime, I tried passing through Dorian without taking a damage. (Used the original non-patched rom.) I applied AI-ignorance trick. Monsters seem to be frozen. I think this trick might be used many times in endgame to avoid superfluous lvl up though it might look bad. It might look good to progress while defeating enemies.
It's a valid method for 6/7 gbs, I think; for all except moon we can fly away after killing the boss. Though the big problem will be sort-of a mass lvling in the final dungeon; by then we'd have stored enough exp for 2-3 lvls each? Kevin has to stay in wolf form for all of them, so that'll waste quite a lot of time I guess.
To explain what I mean:
normally we'd kill 1-2 enemies but have one more on screen, "wait" for Kevin's lvl up screen, take any stat* and kill the last enemy while the game "reloads".
With total enemy avoidance we'd have to wait through quite a lot lvl-ups probably at the same time; possibly a lot of time we can hardly use.
For the final visit to the mana land it's the obvious thing to do, with the last boss approaching and all.
Though... it looks kind of boring to me...
I started to think about the usage of Shadow Zero’s Eye and Weapon & Armor Seed. Shadow Zero’s Eye is obtained from Shadow Zero and Weapon & Armor Seed is obtained from Kerberos summoned by Beast Master in Moonreading Tower or Lesser Demon in Navarre in praetarius3’s case.
Note: GameFAQs Enemy/Item List and Monster item list are missing some data. nJOY’s data are accurate.
Shadow Zero’s Eye:
In my Carlie’s quest, I’ll probably need Defence Down only against the final boss since Death Jester and Heath don’t have many HP and they counter against magic. So I’ll probably no longer need Riese. That I have to think is which Hawk or Duran I should choose. And the Eye decreases not only defence but also intelligence etc. It’ll probably be of help.
Weapon & Armor Seed:
The weapons made from Weapon & Armor Seed are stronger than that you can buy at Pedan.
0x7E5F91 and 0x7E5F94 seem the addresses which affect the items you can gain from Weapon & Armor Seed. The values change by a certain type of bosses’ explosions and magic like Stun Wind and Saint Beam(both of the single and all ranged). And they change a lot in Valley of Flames.
On the other hand, I first had thought I couldn’t buy a weapon at Pedan.(It’s wrong.) If Kevin is an only attacker in endgame and Shadow Zero’s Eye is used, my Hawk/Duran might not need to change the class. It’ll save the time of changing the class, shopping and equipping but lose the time of the battle itself.
W/A-Seed - sounds good.
Weapon for Hawk should be very useful, Riesz - debateable.
Those addresses seem about right (going by a short trip with ram watch + cheated seeds), so I added a display for those two addresses into the Lua script:
first value is 7E5F91, the other 7E5F94
initialized at 0,0
only change so far at Jewel Eater's explosion to: 91, 249
Neither of which would result into what I'd want so thats ok to lose.
Though... I'd still need something to work with, just hoping that it will simply land on the right number in time is not very TAS-able.
Note: if you don't need to class change you even gain time by not needing to lvl up after somewhere between Tzenker-Gorva, as your main attackers str should be at max there; or maybe not, depending on whether I can make Hawk have 10 str next lvl.
I must have missed something; if you aren't going to class change, then how are you going to keep your damage high against the later enemies? As I understand it, Kevin's glitches only improve his base strength, which is severely capped if he doesn't class change. The other two characters would basically be useless for damage.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Kevin's glitch increases his base atk, not his str; the cap for this was 370 or so, can't go higher there no matter what; add wolf form and his built-in atk up buff, for maximum real atk; less than 30 seconds against earth gb w/out the other two helping should speak for itself here
Duran as a duelist has highest normal atk with (22 str x 15 weapon power + minor constant number) = 350 something, quite a bit lower and way later available then Kevin with his pre-gb glitch
normal characters (as in everyone that is not a atk-glitched Kevin) need quite a lot extra lvls and additional trips to buy new weapons, extra lvls that *have* to be before mana land to class change in time (else another extra trip there)
in exchange we get *slightly* faster boss fights (all but the last two bosses + dangaard should take less than 60 seconds with Kevin alone, probably even less); the difference for normal forced fights wouldn't be noteable
=> doesn't seem worth it
the glitch I think you mean only allows everyone to get at a lvl-up the stat I want (str); currently it's only up to the respective cap, but that might change soon
That's (currently) a very valid interpretation of the 2nd game-half, yes. Although it might not be literal 1-damage pokes at the enemies, but critical ones at the RNG and AI.
The weapon from w/a seed is not stronger than I expected. The difference of atk. is only 11pt in Hawk’s case. Considering manipulating not to use item depository, it might not be a good strategy.
I wonder if Demon’s Claw from a magic seed is useful against Lightgazer. I tried seeding a lot of magic seeds. I suspect 0x7E5F92 and 0x7E5F93 like 0x7E5F91 and 0x7E5F94 also have something to do with the items you can gain from seeds.
The values of 0x7E5F91 and 0x7E5F92 directly seem to affect the items you can gain from seeds but the values of 0x7E5F93 and 0x7E5F94 don’t.
The value of 0x7E5F92 doesn’t change by each seeding. It is the value added to 0x7E5F91 each time you seed. It changes when the value of 0x7E5F94 comes down to 0 when you seed. The value of 0x7E5F93 doesn’t also change by each seeding but changes the value of 0x7E5F94 comes down to 0 when you seed.
Except seeding, the values of 0x7E5F92 and 0x7E5F93 change by a certain type of bosses’ explosions and magic but don’t change in Valley of Flames. Of course, they change when the value of 0x7E5F94 comes down to 0 in the Valley.
Note: One w/a seed changes these values as two other seeds do.
EDIT: I'm now searching what items you get from magic seeds according to the values of 0x7E5F91 and 0x7E5F92. I'm going to sum up in .xls.
w/a seed:
depository wouldn't be the problem since you can plant any seed, no matter where it's stored, and by that time we don't get any more new item types.
i guess we can forget about it; the seed weapon requires a class change to wear afaik, and if we go that route for Hawk we should rather get two "bad" weapons from pedan or something
magic seed/demon claw:
i have my doubts about that... the first place i can get them (that i know of) is from enemies in the ice fields; any planting options after that are quite a bit out of the way:
-killing one screen full of enemies which I could possibly just skip?
-waiting for the chest to appear, ~400ish frames
-minimum 2 additional screen transitions (entering and leaving inn), 2x 200 frames?
-planting the seed, ??? frames
-finally using the claw, ~300 frames?
in total... way too much
i'd say at best it would cut even, at worst it's a huge waste of time
I see but I’m learning what items you get from magic seeds and it has something to do with the weapons and armors from w/a seeds according to nJOY. (Google translation is this.) You will probably be able to foresee the items from the seeds easily from the current values.
The problem is how and when to manipulate the value. I think the way will probably be screen transitions at Valley of Flames on the way to Xan Bie. It is basically trial and error.
??? seeds are not used in TAS but I researched a bit. The values of 0x7E5FCA and 0x7E5FCB have something to do with the items you get from the seeds. The value which directly affects the items is that of 0x7E5FCB but both values change each time you seed ??? seed. These values don’t seem to change unlike other values which have something to do with other seeds. They won’t change unless you seed ??? seed. So they can’t be manipulated.
Whoops... too fast... really didn't expect that...
by about 3700 frames* I missed night time after the canon travel back to the black market...
the first time around I landed during night time...
any possibility to manipulate that? or just take a herb and get it done?
* frames I'd have to stand around somewhere where time passes
I'd be incredibly surprised if the day/night cycle were manipulable. It's almost certainly just doing an internal frame counter. In fact, I bet you could find the counter easily by just looking for values in memory that increase by 1 each frame while standing around outside. That'd make it easier to plan for day/night changes.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Yeah, it’s too fast.
My suggestions:
1. Using a Dreamsee herb. The problem is the timing.
-When you use the herb in Forthena before the appearance of the cannon, you can talk to a girl in nearer pub. If you hurry enough, you might be able to reach Black Market before break of the day.
-Or using the herb in other places. If you use the herb early, you might be able to fight against Rabite and Rabilion in daytime. It might be faster to fight against them in daytime than at night. But day might break before Bill & Ben.
2. Fighting against some extra enemies.
3. Performing a dance or something else in places for an entertainment though it might be difficult and impractical.
BTW, here is the .xls by which you can foresee what items you’ll get from magic seeds.
-> http://www.mediafire.com/?1kqvp7k1k5i0guq
It was a copy&paste work. The file size is huge (nearly 2MB) and there is a rule to the items from seeds so I probably needed not fill it out.
Unfortunately, I don’t know a rule when the value of 0x7E5F94 comes down to zero and how many numbers are changed by bosses’ explosions and magic but you can foresee the item when you defeat the 7th GB with this file and nJOY’s information without seeding unless the value of 0x7E5F94 is 1.
@1:
I guess I have to redo from Forcena then and use the herb there; I'd have about one "in-game hour" (going by the units in trangix's lua script) of night left when I reach the black market. Since it's a "minor" time saver anyway, why not.
@2:
Wasting time by fighting some more enemies isn't possible - there is almost nothing left to fight, and those wouldn't add up to a minute, unless done very sloppy; and the exp wouldn't even be noteable in the long run, currently they top out at 8 exp/victim and for the most part I already have enough exp for the whole game (unless I can break the str cap, but that's still a theorie/hope):
Kevin is missing one str, which can easily be gotten with boss exp even if I don't get str-up glitch to work
Hawk is at max, though agl/luck might make luck/hit manipulation a bit easier
Riesz... doesn't matter too much, for her it's either 18 at manaland (for stat-down at last two bosses) or "eye-candy" for the entire run.
@3:
no comment
something more to think about:
in jail use the golden statue and do NOT stay at the Inn; that way the day/night cycle would fit way better:
you arrive in Forcena at night, so can use the shortcut via the pub girl w/out wasting a dream herb, and arrive at the black market at night
possible time saved
800 ish frames from not needing to get another dream herb (including usage)
800+ frames from not using the Inn
-something for two slower boss fights
normal fights might even be faster, because Kevin's transformation makes him "useless", but maybe less exp for different enemy types
if you want to really push it don't use the statue either, manipulate the golems to only shoot one MISSile and make that one true to it's name
just something that crossed my mind when seeing Kevin being mostly useless during the re-done part; I think it's just too early in the game for him
I don’t know which way is better. I’d rather concern about the time management toward Bill & Ben.
Usage of the Gold Statue in jail would be good if you leave Maia in daytime.
praetarius3 wrote:
if you want to really push it don't use the statue either, manipulate the golems to only shoot one MISSile and make that one true to it's name
I’ve read RaneofSoTN’s comment on youtube but I’ve not make sure of it. Is it truly possible?
Well, I think I don’t use str. glitch on boss battle because it’s hard to manipulate. I would use a Dreamsee Herb at Forcena or somewhere in my run though my run is stopped.
Well, I actually had them shoot only one missile, but two was needed to get Hawk into position. And I meant miss as in them shooting down or up, which can be achieved by having their target move quite close to them, but... actually not sure if that's possible on the opener... maybe blocking Ai... whatever, it's nothing I'd redo the run over but it's something I wanted to throw out in case someone wants to use it.
On second thought... daytime has "worse" enemy selection imo, whatever, moving on...
I decided to take Hawk as the third character in my run. Duran is not so bad. He helps using “重ね(性能の入れかわり)” tech written on this site. It might be faster with Duran on boss battles. However, Hawk’s DPS are higher. He can defeat a Battum with one double attack. So I need Hawk.
I may have to give up no-death in my run because Tzenker has 160 EXP. The third character’s EXP to next level just before Tzenker will be ~130. So I have to make them wounded on the way to Tzenker in order to adjust EXP or give up str. glitch or fight against some extra enemies.
The position of Booskaboo and Flammie on the World Map is probably:
X-position 0x7E60A5 0x7E60B5
Y-position 0x7E60A7 0x7E60B7
Ah, Kevin’s text message is shorter when you talk to Bon Voyage after you get Gunpowder. Considering the length of the weapon drawing animation, it saves 18 frames. I’ve not noticed it for a long time.
I wrote:
-When a character leaves at Ghost Ship, his/her menu defaults to magic. If they don’t learn any magic, it defaults to item.
Ah, Kevin’s text message is shorter when you talk to Bon Voyage after you get Gunpowder. Considering the length of the weapon drawing animation, it saves 18 frames.
...at least it's less than a half second, so it should be ok if I don't redo that; if i did, i'd have to redo from about jad
it would be one of... quite a few notes for improveable parts, though they don't add up to 1% yet (right now I estimate an "easy" 500 frames improvement over the 200k frames I uploaded so far); give one or two new discoveries and it could jump up to even 5% or more (or utopical 90%+ with an "instant win "-type glitch/corruption), or better practical knowledge for planning: like right now I'm not sure I'll even need all 3 dream herbs, Riesz vs Duran, exp planning (is lv18/class-change needed? can we go past str-cap? - haven't gotten around to check the later yet) etc.
edit:
Ok, exactly 1exp for lvl-up, three enemies on screen time to find out whether we'll have to follow the rules to the end or if we can break them decently. I honestly have doubts about chance of success, but I'll try anyway; in case it is not possible, which stat should I get instead:
dex? luck? both could/should ease the RNG a bit in my favor
vit - no armor, no point
int/spr - m.def is as useless as possible, especially with tas, so no
currently i favor dex as it's already on the cursor
