Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Are you still working on this Inzult? If not, I would like to do it eventually. But if I'm about to do it it will certainly take a huge amount of time. Well, at the moment I'm just curious.
I'm having some computer trouble. When I turn on my computer, it refuses to work. But that was just recently. Before that, I just got lazy. But before that, I was busy, I swear.
The next time I work on it, I'm starting from scratch, and I'm using fceu. But I'm not sure when that'll be; there's some stuff I have to take care of before I can think about a new comp. So as of right now, the current run is dead. Sorry D:
Definitely do not want to steal Inzult's thunder...and many thanks for everyone who has posted. I've been a long-time reader of these forums, and decided I would give the FF1 timetrial a shot.
Currently, I'm at 29:47, and just finished the Vampire. I could go into this long spiel about it, but I'll let you take a look and give some insights...I know I can shave a few things off of it, but this is just a rough run.
I'm also keeping everyone alive for this run, just to see...I may take the advice and end up killing off one of the fighters, but not yet.
Party is 3 fighters + a red mage:
http://home.comcast.net/~mookish/ff1vampire.fcm
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
If you are stealing my thunder, it's the slowest thunder ever. I'll watch the movie so far and see what I can see and get back to you.
Edit: Looks pretty good. I have a question about the enemy strikes first fights; would it have been faster to manipulate luck in the previous fights? I know the enemy attacking round itself doesn't really take that long, so I imagine there would be cases where it would be faster to take the hits.
If so, the way you handled the fights is good. Keep it up.
I'll admit, I probably could go through and manipulate luck a bit to fix those enemy strikes first attacks...I did for a few of them, just on the principle that being poisoned is a bitch.
I'm taking notes regarding things to do faster the next time around, but I'll admit, considering the level and speed, I think I'm doing somewhat alright for a first go-around.
59 minutes, just picked up the oxyale, and am headed to get the cube/wizard staff. A few battles were unavoidable (stupid ice cave...+hate to groups of wizards + frost giants/wolves), and getting by Lich with all 4 of my party members under 10hp (thank you Ice2) was definitely a test in patience.
You're right though...under 2 hours is definitely doable. I'll keep my progress posted, but hey, it WAS St. Patrick's day today...too much drinking to get any work done on it.
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Finished it. 1:45:13, all said and told. Just watching the movie, I've taken a few notes where I can shave off some time. I think if I actually exhibit some patience for perfect luck manipulation, this video should be down near the 1:30 mark.
Anyways, for your viewing enjoyment:
http://home.comcast.net/~mookish/ff1final.fcm
I'll probably do a rough outline and get to work on the final version for submission sometime this weekend.
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Yeah, won't argue that...was actually one of the easier ones to hit with Bane also...the 2nd fight with Kary was beginning to piss me off though...took about 250-300 frames of 2 frame advance ---> fight and wait to see if I survived and/or hit the Bane, or replay/reload/repeat. Talk about tedious and a pain in the ass.
Oh well...next version will be much cleaner.
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I was thinking about doing this game but now I don't have too. I haven't watched your first run but 1:45 sounds really fast to me. Good luck on your next attempt!
Ok, only watched a couple of minutes, here are thoughts so far:
1) Giving people interesting names takes no time compared to the length of the movie. It's a lot easier to follow to (who got attacked? who got the level up?)
2) When running, select run for the character which moves first only. Select fight for the others. This way you'll have to move the cursor three times less per run-away. (If you have to wait for the last character to select anything for randomness manipulation this doesn't apply. Same thing when someone fails to run away.)
3) Check the memory addresses to predict what's going to happen instead of testing every frame all the time. This applies for encounter rates, critical hits, first strikes, if you can escape or not, everything. Next encounter variable is set at an especially inconvinient time, when you enter or exit a battle (not sure which). Checking the memory address is so much less trouble than taking X steps to test.
4) Sometimes NPCs are in your way. Is there any way to affect their behaviour?
5) Sometimes you have easily avoidable ineffectives. Are all of them because the damage wouldn't kill the enemy any faster?
6) Can the Red Mage get EXIT? And is there anywhere where this could be useful?
7) Sometimes you walk on the damage tiles more than neccessary. I realize this doesn't matter when you're already down to 1 hp.
8) Does the Red Mage have a higher chance to hit with the bane? If not, have the first person to attack perform it. Don't perform banes when it misses everyone.
1) Giving people interesting names takes no time compared to the length of the movie. It's a lot easier to follow to (who got attacked? who got the level up?)
Agreed...I'll be doing that for my next run at it.
2) When running, select run for the character which moves first only. Select fight for the others. This way you'll have to move the cursor three times less per run-away. (If you have to wait for the last character to select anything for randomness manipulation this doesn't apply. Same thing when someone fails to run away.)
I'll check it out, but I think it takes less time to move the cursor to run and send the command through, than it does to hit Fight ---> select an enemy ---> send THAT command through.
3) Check the memory addresses to predict what's going to happen instead of testing every frame all the time. This applies for encounter rates, critical hits, first strikes, if you can escape or not, everything. Next encounter variable is set at an especially inconvinient time, when you enter or exit a battle (not sure which). Checking the memory address is so much less trouble than taking X steps to test.
Something I hadn't thought of. I did notice though that based on each character's actions, the rules of the fight do change. What I need to map out is if the randomness factor is actually based on frame (example: 3 fight commands take 40 frames, next fight command is at frame 48...2 fight commands + 1 spell take 80 frames, fight command is at frame 88....does each situation produce the same result at frame 88 or not?) As for the encounter rate...I can tell you the nature of the encounter depends on the frame of the last fight. Sometimes, fleeing the first round would set me up for an ambush the next fight...and I would have to go redo the fight and perhaps fail a flee, or take a bit of damage to avoid the "monster strikes first" in the subsequent fight.
4) Sometimes NPCs are in your way. Is there any way to affect their behaviour?
Not that I noticed, but those bats in the earth cave...it would have been nice to somehow walk right through them. I lost some time there.
5) Sometimes you have easily avoidable ineffectives. Are all of them because the damage wouldn't kill the enemy any faster?
Sheer laziness I'm afraid...don't worry. It'll be cleaned up for the final version. I'll admit...I just wanted to finish it to see if it could be done.
6) Can the Red Mage get EXIT? And is there anywhere where this could be useful?
Not only do I doubt it, but I don't reach the level to use it till about 10 minutes before the end of the game. I plan to finish the final version on level 10. (Assuming I can avoid those must-fights)
*edit* Sorry, I was thinking of WARP for some reason. I don't even get close enough to the level to learn EXIT, so no dice there.
7) Sometimes you walk on the damage tiles more than neccessary. I realize this doesn't matter when you're already down to 1 hp.
I remember reading in this thread that while you're walking on damage tiles, you cannot encounter enemies. I don't mind taking an extra step or two to save me from an unneccesary/early fight.
8) Does the Red Mage have a higher chance to hit with the bane? If not, have the first person to attack perform it. Don't perform banes when it misses everyone.
Once again, laziness...but I will be trying that sword out with the three fighters to see. I might even map out an average, out of sheer curiosity.
Thanks for the comments though...definitely looking forward to the next run.
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
>I'll check it out, but I think it takes less time to move the cursor to run and send the command through, than it does to hit Fight ---> select an enemy ---> send THAT command through.
You are right and I am wrong.
>I plan to finish the final version on level 10.
Didn't think of this. Scrap the EXIT idea too then.
>I remember reading in this thread that while you're walking on damage tiles, you cannot encounter enemies. I don't mind taking an extra step or two to save me from an unneccesary/early fight.
That might have been me.
Thing is, the step counter is still decreased when you walk on damage tiles. So if you walk on some damage tiles before walking on some regular tiles, all you did was lose some health. The enemy appears at the same step anyway.
The difference is that you cannot start a battle on a damage tile. So if you are already down to one step until battle, it will be postponed until you walk on a normal tile. Just wanted to clarify that.
Another thought: 9) Could you juggle the usable items to the top so that you will have fewer cursor moves every time you use them?
7) Sometimes you walk on the damage tiles more than neccessary. I realize this doesn't matter when you're already down to 1 hp.
I remember reading in this thread that while you're walking on damage tiles, you cannot encounter enemies. I don't mind taking an extra step or two to save me from an unneccesary/early fight.
In that case, I think you could have walked on the damage tiles a little more than you did!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
The difference is that you cannot start a battle on a damage tile. So if you are already down to one step until battle, it will be postponed until you walk on a normal tile. Just wanted to clarify that.
Understood.
Another thought: 9) Could you juggle the usable items to the top so that you will have fewer cursor moves every time you use them?
Ironically, that was one of my notes on my to-do list. I'm going to try to setup my weapons so that when I pick up certain items (mage staff/bane sword), they'll automatically move to the first slot for that character.
On an unrelated sidenote though...is it just me, or is the first fight you encounter in the marsh cave always a group of 2-6 shadows, and ALWAYS an ambush? I went and looked at Inzult's video to make sure, and I've ran the prior 2 fights to entering the cave over and over again...and it always ends up the same result...???
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Jesus, you're a fast worker. Then again, I was only doing like 15 minutes of video per sitting.
I'm going to watch it later tonight and then probably say nothing of value later.
On an unrelated sidenote though...is it just me, or is the first fight you encounter in the marsh cave always a group of 2-6 shadows, and ALWAYS an ambush? I went and looked at Inzult's video to make sure, and I've ran the prior 2 fights to entering the cave over and over again...and it always ends up the same result...???
I can't say that the first fight is always vs Shadows, but I can say that Shadows always strike first. When I was doing the movie, I could never avoid a monster-strikes-first fight vs Shadows. Which is irritating.
Also, it occurs to me that the first time you enter elfland, you should do so from the top left house in stead of the top right. It saves, like, 2 steps on the overworld or something. No big deal, but... eh.
Edit: Also also, it occurs to me that if you were to name your characters ABCD or something else where the letters are all beside each other, it wouldn't take any extra frames, and your characters could be differentiated. Unless you had the a button on turbo and could enter a letter per frame.... I never checked that out ;D
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I felt like adding something here. Did you know that you can access a mini-game by entering the boat like, erhm, 100 times and simultaniously hold A + B (atleast I think it's A + B)? This would not be seen in a time attack but I found it cool when I tested it a couple of months ago. ;P
I felt like adding something here. Did you know that you can access a mini-game by entering the boat like, erhm, 100 times and simultaniously hold A + B (atleast I think it's A + B)? This would not be seen in a time attack but I found it cool when I tested it a couple of months ago. ;P
Yeah, old news. You get some money for winning it.
Inzult wrote:
Also, it occurs to me that the first time you enter elfland, you should do so from the top left house in stead of the top right. It saves, like, 2 steps on the overworld or something. No big deal, but... eh.
That actually occurred to me too, but I figured that maybe Mookish had already tried it and it didn't work for some reason; like maybe the entrance would be farther away, or maybe it would boot him out of the top-right anyway. I was actually going to suggest entering from the bottom-right, but I didn't want to until I had tested it, and I didn't feel like testing it.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Also, it occurs to me that the first time you enter elfland, you should do so from the top left house in stead of the top right. It saves, like, 2 steps on the overworld or something. No big deal, but... eh.
Actually, I noticed that too...top left or lower right (I did the latter this time around...)
Edit: Also also, it occurs to me that if you were to name your characters ABCD or something else where the letters are all beside each other, it wouldn't take any extra frames, and your characters could be differentiated. Unless you had the a button on turbo and could enter a letter per frame.... I never checked that out ;D
Thought of that too...after I had given them original names...but s'alright...least they'll know the video is from me.
Small update: Just picked up the TNT...and I'm already 12000 frames ahead of my previous video. Also picked up LIT (helped with garland + the wizards), but I swear, if another person gets in my way while I'm walking...stupid random NPC's.
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Just finished watching. That pretty well looks like how I was envisioning my own next version. Of course, the chest selection would of been slightly different (eg, I wasn't planning on getthing the copper bracelet). The only place to go from here is to work out all the bubbles.
It seems to me that you should keep your mage staff/wizard staff on your fighter with the weakest weapon. You know, so you can deal more damage.
You probably noticed this one, but when you do Kary, methinks you should park your airship on the same square where you appear when you exit the Volcano. You know, because walking is slower than airship travel.
And definately make sure to use that mage staff any time it's more effective than attacking. Which would be often.
Yeah, I noticed that part about Gurgu Volcano...I made a note of it for this run.
The bracelet I axed this run...as well as 5 of the 8 chests at the dwarves (only grabbed dragon sword/silver armor/house).
Still well ahead of my last mark...26 minutes even for the ruby this go-around...although I tell you what...it sure is getting annoying doing frame advances for first round flees all the time. I'm probably going to have some noticable pauses on the last command in some fights.
The mage staff...the only reason I grabbed it was because I couldn't flee from the ghosts. I don't know whether they can be, or if I just was too low of a level. I've made a note to make sure they get handed out to better people this go-around.
I'm leaving most of the money for the ice cave...if memory serves, that double line of 3 chests can pretty much fund the 50k for the bottle...except that top right chest which I "think" is guarded. The other 5 are the ones I want anyways.
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
