<Neclea>Gavin Ward <Sprint>WHAT? WHERE?
<oldskoolgamer101>What a stupid name!
oldskoolgamer101 was kicked from # soniccenter by Sprint [ says you , kimpy ]
In the good tradition I switched my avatar to Chanukah mode again. :)
The Chanukah begins tomorrow night and lasts for eight days and eight nights. It commemorates something that may well happen again.
I could tell you what Christmas is about, but it would be a beginning of a discussion to no end. Let's just say, it is not the birthday of Jesus.
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[img_right]http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/snap/tas_qmark.png[/img_right]Inlining the signature here, to preserve it in relevant context even after I change the one in my profile.
I could tell you what Christmas is about, but it would be a beginning of a discussion to no end. Let's just say, it is not the birthday of Jesus.
Well, there is no definitive proof that Jesus even existed, not to talk about when he might have been born, so stating absolutes about it is not something rational to do. There's something like a 0.27% probability that he was born the 25th of December (if we distribute the odds evenly on the whole year), which is pretty low, but on the other hand you cannot say for sure that he was not born on that day. Some scholars estimate that it probably happened in springtime, while others estimate that it happened at fall (some, I'm pretty sure you are among them, even like to entertain the idea that it happened on the festival of tabernacles, but that's just wild guessing). Some argue that it could not happened in the middle of winter because of the shepherds, but OTOH it could have been a warm year (or even a warm era), you never know. You can't speak in absolutes about this.
Most clerics, scholars and believers don't even state that he was with certainty born at that date; instead, the holiday exists to celebrate it regardless of when exactly it happened.
Naturally a different issue is that there's no command, suggestion or example of such a holiday in the bible. It was purely an invention of the Roman church. The choice of the date is also quite well known and documented (in other words, on the same day as the Roman festival of Saturnalia), and nobody denies it. (In fact, "christmas" is still called "saturnalia" in church latin. It's not like anybody's trying to hide the fact.) Some argue that the date being the same (and even having been deliberately chosen to be the same) is not all that important. A date is just a date. It's as arbitrary as any other date (such as new year's day, which is equally arbitrary).
Is it a bad thing for believers to celebrate a holiday which is not set in the bible on an arbitrary day? Well, believers and others celebrate all kinds of holidays on diverse dates for diverse reasons, some perhaps having a biblical background, others a pagan one. Is Christmas somehow worse than those other holidays in this regard?
I'm not taking a stance here. I'm just throwing facts and thoughts.
In the good tradition I switched my avatar to Chanukah mode again. :)
The Chanukah begins tomorrow night and lasts for eight days and eight nights. It commemorates something that may well happen again.
I could tell you what Christmas is about, but it would be a beginning of a discussion to no end. Let's just say, it is not the birthday of Jesus.I got rid of your annoying sig, Bisqwit. hope u dont mind
Okay, sorry for looking like an idiot, but are you Christian or Jewish? I've always thought you were Christian but apparently you're not? I don't know.
Also, merry Christmas to everyone, and may you all have a happy new year.
Also, hello. I've been gone for a while. But it's not like you people missed me right? ;)
On a side note, I still haven't learned learned any programming languages (maybe you remember my C programming thread). So I probably never will either. Oh well.
Looks like I double posted! And it seems I also revived a month-old thread. Sorry about that everyone.
Okay, sorry for looking like an idiot, but are you Christian or Jewish? I've always thought you were Christian but apparently you're not? I don't know.
You mean christians cannot celebrate jewish holidays? Why not?
In the good tradition I switched my avatar to Chanukah mode again. :)
The Chanukah begins tomorrow night and lasts for eight days and eight nights. It commemorates something that may well happen again.
I could tell you what Christmas is about, but it would be a beginning of a discussion to no end. Let's just say, it is not the birthday of Jesus.
Okay, sorry for looking like an idiot, but are you Christian or Jewish? I've always thought you were Christian but apparently you're not? I don't know.
Depending on definition, both or neither. I try to resign myself from all Christian traditions and teachings whose true roots are not in the Bible. While I am leaning more towards Jewish traditions, I try to hold the same standard there as well, ignoring all the ancestry pride, the search for hidden secrets of the universe, the rabbinical edgecase debates and the going of five extra miles to avoid crossing a commandment. It is a work-in-progress, and in the mean time I am going to offend a whole lot of people.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Glad I don't believe, otherwise I might be the least bit compelled to actually invest time in any of these boring old traditions. Now I can keep myself only to the ones that are actually fun.
Merry christmas and/or hanukkah everybody. Make sure you buy your presents from small stores to best stimulate the economy.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Bisqwit wrote:
For the record, the hanukkah was three weeks ago!
Thanks for clearing that up. It's actually pretty awful how little I know about traditions from other religions. (I knew it wasn't on the same date, but not exactly how long before Christmas. Didn't figure it was 3 weeks.) Although I'm not religious I do think it's important to know about people's cultures. Should really do some more studying on that one of these days.
I knew it wasn't on the same date, but not exactly how long before Christmas. Didn't figure it was 3 weeks.
Hanukkah, like other Jewish festivals, are based on a different calendar system (lunar calendar) than what most countries use today (solar calendar). This is why some years, it is around the same time as christmas/yule/saturnalia/pancha ganavati, while some years, it is many weeks before that.
<Neclea>Gavin Ward <Sprint>WHAT? WHERE?
<oldskoolgamer101>What a stupid name!
oldskoolgamer101 was kicked from # soniccenter by Sprint [ says you , kimpy ]
Inlining the signature here, to preserve it in relevant context even after I change the one in my profile.
