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Posted: 11/12/2010 10:09 PM
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ALAKTORN
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DS TAS of 2012
sgrunt wrote:
What I'm wondering is - if Naval Forces can be redone starting from that point, would the rest of the run be able to be spliced on after that point? I get the sense that if there's no actual action taking place things would be fairly deterministic.
try redoing Naval Forces?
Posted: 11/13/2010 7:34 AM
(Edited: 11/13/2010 7:55 PM)
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sgrunt
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With some additional effort, I've managed to tweak Naval Forces and the design stage to get the balance of the run to sync. Behold: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1421369934/advancewars-splicedimprovement.vbm criticaluser, I would like to see this submitted with a co-author credit (possibly along with ALAKTORN for providing the strategy). EDIT: For the curious, see http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=06F1154C30790BAA
Posted: 11/13/2010 12:06 PM
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criticaluser
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Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
yeah, no problem. There is something I've just recently discovered about cursor movement that could improve the run. (about 100 frames) (explanatinon later due to the lack of time to write) Also I've found a better strategy for naval forces.(also 100 frames).
Posted: 11/13/2010 2:56 PM
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ALAKTORN
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DS TAS of 2012
yeah I've also been wondering about Naval Forces's strategy, I didn't really comment on it because I don't know how you make the glitch work, but it looked like you could've saved time if you tell me the specifics you need for the glitch, I can try to come up for a strategy too and I'd like the mention in the submission for the strategy, thanks
Posted: 11/13/2010 5:58 PM
(Edited: 11/13/2010 6:02 PM)
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criticaluser
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Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
Yeah. But first, cursor movement: if you see the possible tiles that the cursor can go by pressing only once an arrow key you'll se that the four adjacent and the four diagnoals tiles are the ones, let's call It first square, second square will be the one that every tile can be reached by mashing an arrow twice. On a TAS, when you are going to the second square, if someone noticed cursor seems to warp to that tile (only If you don't change cursor's direction). In that cases you can press the last arrow input and the A key to select/move an unit (won't happen if Nell is telling you to select something). Well in a second, fourth, pair square, you can do that. third, fifth, odd square you have to wait two frames before you can press the A button. So instead of mashing (right) () (right) () (right) () () (A), It's faster by doing (right/down) () (right/down) () (right/up) () (up/A). (tell me if you don't get it) Now. I've discovered that naval forces is an special mission cause luck feature is actived on first day. So by killing the submarine you can save a couple of frames wasted on It's movement wasting less on the animation. Also, if you manipulate battleship attack to the rocket and lowering his hp to 1, it will move to the city to heal itself, so it won't attack your inf unt and you don't have to move it on that turn. Going to the glitch part. As far as I know, the only way that you can do it is by letting your enemy destroy your T-copter.
Posted: 11/13/2010 6:01 PM
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2156)
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The last Field Training mission can be done even faster: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1705745498/advancewars-newfogofwar-test.vbm I only modified the strategy in Day 4. The rest remains the same as sgrunt's first WIP.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Posted: 11/13/2010 6:14 PM
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criticaluser
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Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
That can be done even faster by using my cursor movement trick. EDIT:http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1208045485/advancewars-newfogofwar%2Bcursormovtrick.vbm There is it, 128 frames faster.
Posted: 11/14/2010 12:45 AM
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ALAKTORN
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DS TAS of 2012
I don't understand that cursor trick but it's awesome O_o nice find with the Rockets klmz, I have no idea why it moves there xD edit: tried Naval Forces myself, can't find any improvement
Posted: 11/14/2010 5:50 AM
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Nitrodon
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criticaluser wrote:
So instead of mashing (right) () (right) () (right) () () (A), It's faster by doing (right/down) () (right/down) () (right/up) () (up/A). (tell me if you don't get it)
I determined this a while back in AW2, but was unable to explain it well. (right/down) () (right/down) (up) (right) (up/A) should be even faster. For 5 spaces, (right) (down) (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) (down) (right) should be the fastest method.
Posted: 11/14/2010 11:03 AM
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criticaluser
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Joined: 11/6/2010
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Location: Argentina
Even if that is faster we also have to keep in mind that the path drawn is the shortest.(air and some ground units with high movement). I've just made a list of some possible movements with that trick _ _ _ _ _ 9 _ _ _ 4 _ 8 _ _ _ 3 _ 7 _ _ _ 2 _ 6 C _ _ 1 _ 5 C: cursor Those tiles with numbers are the ones that can be improved by using the trick. (using Nitrodon's improvement) 1. (up/right) () (Up/rigth) (down) (right) (down/A) 2. (up) (right) (up) (right) (down) (right/A) 3. (up) (right) (up) (right) () (right/A) 4. (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) (up/A) 5. (right) (down) (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) (down) (right/A) 6. (right) (down) (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) () (right/A) 7. (right) (down) (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) (up) (right/A) 8. (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) () (right/A) 9. (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) (up) (right) (up) (right/A) (): one frame, If () It means blank EDIT: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1578772331/advancewars-newfogofwar.vbm 15 frames faster by now.
Posted: 11/17/2010 11:30 PM
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ALAKTORN
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DS TAS of 2012
is it ready to be hexed with your finished glitched run now?
Posted: 11/18/2010 12:00 AM
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criticaluser
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Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
no, first I have something to do with naval forces.
Posted: 11/18/2010 3:40 AM
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ALAKTORN
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DS TAS of 2012
criticaluser wrote:
no, first I have something to do with naval forces.
your strategy looks final to me, what else is there to test?
Posted: 11/18/2010 3:42 AM
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Sonikkustar
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ALAKTORN wrote:
criticaluser wrote:
no, first I have something to do with naval forces.
your strategy looks final to me, what else is there to test?
I think what he means is that he hasnt applied the new cursor movement trick to the movie yet.
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Posted: 11/19/2010 11:29 PM
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FionordeQuester
Joined: 3/20/2010
Posts: 126
Wasn't the previous run rejected for being too boring using this trick? If so, what's gonna keep the run with this new cursor trick from being rejected?
Posted: 11/19/2010 11:31 PM
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sgrunt
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FionordeQuester wrote:
Wasn't the previous run rejected for being too boring using this trick? If so, what's gonna keep the run with this new cursor trick from being rejected?
Go and read the rejection reason again; it states that that was only part of the story as the improvement to Fog of War was known at the time and that a run containing said improvement would be more likely to be accepted.
Posted: 11/20/2010 12:07 AM
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FionordeQuester
Joined: 3/20/2010
Posts: 126
Ah, I see. Thanks.
Posted: 11/21/2010 12:02 AM
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criticaluser
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Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
Sonikkustar wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
criticaluser wrote:
no, first I have something to do with naval forces.
your strategy looks final to me, what else is there to test?
I think what he means is that he hasnt applied the new cursor movement trick to the movie yet.
That, and a little improvement made by some luck abusing (only on first day that the game lets me do it). EDIT: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1490774922/advancewars-newfogofwar.vbm Here is it, 105 frame improvement Now, the most important part: how to give more entertainment to the campaign part without losing time.
Posted: 11/23/2010 4:35 AM
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criticaluser
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Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/240841212/AdvanceWars-entertainingtest.vbm I've remade the first campaign mission to make it entertainer by moving the cursor very fast randomly most of the time. What do you say?
Posted: 11/23/2010 7:01 AM
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Kirkq
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I think the last file you uploaded is corrupt. Microstorage doesn't display the data and I cannot play it back.
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Posted: 11/23/2010 7:14 AM
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sgrunt
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Oh good, you finished the training segments. Here's the original campaign input spliced onto the end. This is up to a 2256 frame (37.6 second) improvement. EDIT: Oh, and your 'entertaining' file doesn't play back for me either. Your input file is apparently only a header and doesn't have any actual input data. For the record, I don't think random cursor movement will help the campaign segments any. In fact, jittery movement tends to annoy viewers more than anything else. I think the run in the above form is fine as it is. EDIT2: YouTubed.
Posted: 11/23/2010 10:35 PM
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criticaluser
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Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1810061776/AdvanceWars-entertainingtest.vbm well, at least I'm giving you the .vbm so you can see it. (this .vbm should work)
Posted: 11/23/2010 10:59 PM
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ALAKTORN
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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
just thought of one thing: can't you do Naval Forces first and glitch Fog of War? or do you not get access to Design Map unless you beat it? also… sorry, but, it should still be improvable… notice that I moved 1 unit less, everything else is the same, moving that Inf in the 1/2HP Rockets range shouldn't be required
Posted: 11/23/2010 11:18 PM
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criticaluser
Former player
Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Argentina
I've also though about glitching fog of war but as you say I have to beat it first before I can get access to design map.
Posted: 11/23/2010 11:20 PM
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ALAKTORN
He/Him
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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
criticaluser wrote:
I've also though about glitching fog of war but as you say I have to beat it first before I can get access to design map.
what do you think about not moving that Inf?
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