Post by Wren

Posted: 5/14/2010 8:45 PM

Post subject: Etrian Odyssey

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Wren

He/Him

Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan

This is a request topic. I played through this game when it came out and loved it. I can see it having potential, especially with the user created map aspect. I would love to see somebody tackle this game since generally it is seen as one huge grind fest which I can't help but think wouldn't be the case with luck manipulation.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

Posted: 5/15/2010 7:17 AM

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XkyRauh

He/Him

Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California

Well, the mapping aspect could be completely neglected with a good TAS--the user-drawn map is more for player reference, which a TAS would not need. The only issue I can think of would be the question of whether not to go beyond Floor 25 into the crazy deeper realm. You can run through Floor 25 with pretty much any build of characters and combos (though Troubadours are kind of awesome)... but once you hit the deeper stuff, you pretty much NEED a Protector utilizing the correct skills, or you get wiped flat-out. All a TAS would do is nail the "correct strategy" ASAP with no errors, which is pretty fun to watch if you've played the game before, but it would be pretty dull from an outsider's perspective. :\

Posted: 5/15/2010 9:07 PM

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Wren

He/Him

Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan

I was thinking that the map would make for some interesting playaround material. You can edit the map even during battles so all sorts of things could be done with it. Obviously a fully realized map could be drawn out in a matter of seconds but you could also do other things like draw a portrait or even a multi-floored flip book animation. ^_^ As for the Deep Dark Evil Floors... those can only be accessed, if I recall, by doing the quests from the town. One of which requires you to spend a few game days on a floor killing enemies. This can be bypassed (I think there was only one such quest) by walking around in the Fountain area as there are no encounters there... it's just going to take a very long time. I don't recall if those extra floors were needed for the ending or not (seems like they were needed for the "real" ending) so I guess somebody who remembers more about this game than I do would have to clarify. I'd love to make this run myself actually, but after downloading and trying the emulator out I've realized that's impossible. My PC is too old and too crappy to even boot the emu up. I assume it needs OpenGL to run which my PC doesn't have.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

Posted: 7/19/2010 7:19 PM

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KaitouKid

Former player

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384

I'd watch it just because I've never beaten the first two. Once you hit the floor of FOEs, that's as far into 1 as I got. In 2, I think I got to the two-phase boss of the fifth stratum, but I couldn't even get through the first half of the fight. Part of the problem is that you need specific loadouts for each boss, almost. This was a lot more of an irritant in 2 than in 1. In 2, I had to 'respec' my alchemist a few times, just to adapt to what the next stratum boss was weakest to. Kinda sucked, especially since FOEs stopped giving XP. Glad they changed that back in 3, to be honest. Grinding versus FOEs would probably be the fastest way to power level. The main problem I see with this just leads to money issues. Because you could just sleep in the inn for three days to trigger FOE respawns, then go kill them again. With luck manipulation, you'd be able to fight stronger FOEs sooner. 1 would be a lot faster, in the end, just because of that. The real question's how to get that early money. There are a couple ways, I suppose. Full party of Chop-specialized Survivalists going in for the tutorial 'map this floor to continue!' thing, taking the white crystal or whatever it was that gets you into a fight with three Moles, and fighting FOEs early. 2 would be a longer run, I think, just for all the hoops you'd need to jump through to speed leveling up. Without FOEs, that leads mostly to bosses and normal enemies. Proper party setup's probably key here. Not sure how battles go, so I'm not sure how often you could try and force nothing but Miss attempts on boss turns. If it isn't too difficult, assuming you can, I'd imagine a party of four alchemists and a medic would be pretty good. Not sure if any of the bosses are strong against elemental damage, though. I think all three games would make for really cool TASes. Probably be some of the longer runs on the site, though. I'm totally fine with that, but that's just me. I'm the type who'll watch the longest stuff SDA has to offer just because hey, more entertainment. 100% runs (all pub quests completed) would be amazing. That'd be some shit I'd save to DVD, straight up. The only trouble is finding someone crazy enough to take the challenges on. Hopefully, someday, we'll get someone like that to take it up.

Posted: 8/31/2010 6:41 PM

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KaitouKid

Former player

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384

Reviving this just because I'm sick of seeing people just TASing the same handful of games over and over and over. Have some culture, TASers. Shit. So it's been awhile and I've beaten the original's storyline boss and got to Ur-Child in 2. Gonna go out on a limb and say that for a run of the first game, optimum party setup is just the standard PLASM group. Maybe with a Troubadour replacing the Alchemist for Divinity to help level a little faster? That'd be something that would need to be tested. Alchemist would make the first... two or so strata easier to deal with, but they start to lose their way pretty quickly after that. Maybe PLASM until Cernunos, then swap for a Troubadour once you're on the 3rd and can do the Treefrog XP grind? For 2, it's a little harder since the classes are a big more all over the place. But I'm gonna say that you'd probably want an Alchemist there, too, just for Megido. Being able to spam the (albeit heavy-cost) cheat button is nice. More in the second than the first, since you can't get one in the first game until the 3rd stratum, you'd probably want a Ronin capable of using Kubiuchi. Instant death attack. I'm pretty sure everything but the final boss(es) are capable of being instantly killed if you get lucky enough. Hell, I'd imagine for the most part, you'd get at least one or two Ronin and just Kubiuchi your way through most of the game. I'm not sure if Kubiuchi works like Climax in that it pretty much requires the enemy to have low health, though. If so, Dark Hunter with Viper and Alchemist with Megido. Between poison and spamming a maxed Megido, you can push anything to low health fairly quickly. I think the most rerecords would probably just come from manipulating encounter rate and instant-kills on stratum bosses. Maybe throw in a Hexer, keep him at low health, and just spam Revenge? Two Ronin up front, two Hexers and a Medic in back? I might - MIGHT - give it a shot myself if the people who're actually good at this stuff can't be arsed to stop running Super Metroid into the ground. I know the first game's first five strata by heart now. I'm on a second trip through 1 to at least get to Primevil this time. I stopped at the 6th my last go since my party just wasn't what the stupid god damn developers all but require you to have for it. The other thing to bring up is when to do quests. Should it be 'clear a floor, return to pub, do all quests available' or should it be 'clear most of the game, then do quests before killing the final boss'? If I'm going to do a run of an Etrian game, I'm going to 100% it. And in my eyes, that means two things. Getting to and killing the 30th floor boss, and doing all of the pub quests. The pub quests will bring you to all the 'optional' bosses, I believe. Not sure if there was ever a Manticor kill quest or not. Whatever the case, let's get some discussion going on these, alright? The first two games, anyway. The third isn't out in English yet, so let's avoid discussing that in this thread just to keep potential spoilers away.

Posted: 9/4/2010 12:45 AM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1202)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

I've played the first game a bit, not the second. I get the impression it's slow going most of the way. I don't actually know enough details to really plan out what to do. I suppose the first question is: What battles are absolutely required? And in those battles, what are the bare-minimums you can get away with, even with perfect luck? And of course, how do we get to those minimums? And if we go above said minimums, how much faster can we go with a bit more grinding beforehand? To the extent of my knowledge, there are frighteningly few free immediately usable items sitting around. Almost everything you'll be getting are from selling the various junk to the shop and buying the resulting new stuff. Still, I don't know a handy list of these usable free items. How would these work out? Finally, there's the map itself. You've got long walks ahead. One thing you have full control over is what you can do with the map. Write out a story, play Tic-Tac-Toe or Checkers, draw pixel art. I'm sure there's plenty of stuff one can do with the map! ... Which should run out all too quick, though. Someone really creative might need to stop by. I know, I don't have much to say except the most basic questions. I don't know enough of the game to formulate anything remotely considered strategy. Is there really no one else here who knows more than my limited amounts?

Posted: 9/23/2010 7:26 PM

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FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1202)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

A basic test run getting past the first test in the first game. As far as long range plans go, I have absolutely none of that. As of this moment, I'm not even remotely certain what to aim for. Or anything remotely considered a basic strategy at this point. But the mapping seems to have a lot of potential for entertainment. This has been a great test for my multitrack script, and I will probably continue to run something to help tweak out any flaws in said script (I found a flaw with DeSmuME 0.9.6's emu.frameadvance). Let it be this game, I suppose. But again, I'm quite worthless where long range plans are concerned. If I'm ever going to finish this, I will need help. There's no question about this. I'm a willing runner at this moment, but knowing myself, there's no guarantee I'll even come close to finishing, so I suppose I'll make the best start I can for others to work with. A little guidance, however, should help speed up progress. Knowing my lack of plans, I would otherwise hit every dead-end that doesn't help the more knowledgeable person.

Posted: 9/24/2010 2:18 PM

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Wren

He/Him

Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan

I'd love to watch that video but I can't because my PC is far too crappy and can't even run a DS emulator. T_T What kinds of things have you found out in regards to luck manipulation? Once we know how effectively item drops can be manipulated and how easily you can force bosses to do what you want and thus take them on at lower levels you'll probably see more people trying to plan the run out for you. Also, can random encounters be avoided or greatly reduced? The big question is how fast can you go deep and thus power level to the minimums needed to cheese out a win against the big baddies. We'll need to figure out what weapons are easily obtainable and serve to give you the edge needed to keep plodding on. I hope you continue this run and somebody encodes the WIPs you post so I can offer up some help.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

Posted: 9/24/2010 5:35 PM

Quote

FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1202)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Luck, uh... I've found not much. I've put zero effort in battles so far, as this WIP doesn't go in a single battle so far. Somehow, the thought didn't cross my mind to check this rather critical detail. Ask not how I managed to do this, even I'm not sure. I did, however, look through GameFAQs for a bit and spotted a topic that pointed me here, a link for a .rar file containing useful data. Apparently, a counter for random battles increments depending on what tile you step on. I get the impression you can't manipulate whether a random battle will occur by delaying your step, as depending on what square you go on to, a constant number will get added. Also, every enemy bases their actions depending on certain conditions, such as what turn number it is, whether some status is applied, or whatever. Still, there are places in their "thought process" where they will randomly decide which one of a few actions to use. But I still need to check up on the RNG stuff. I'll be looking into things now and can hopefully tell you what can be manipulated. Edit: I certainly won't mind if someone produces a quick encode. Then again, the contents of the run so far generally include messing with options, forming a party of LPSMA with names far longer than 1 character each, and doing the first mission to map out the first floor in record time. No battles in the straight-line walk, however. Edit2: I found the RNG (or a part of it), at addresses 020E9D04 and 020E9D08, both are 2-byte values. I'll call them R1 and R2. Unlike a few other things I've been looking for, these do not appear to change addresses in certain situations. This is good, as a simple memory watch is all we'll need to read them. The RNGs only change when the game needs a random number. Or I cheat and poke new values in there directly, but that's... Cheating. I even learn Cure for a Medic and even using that out of battle isn't changing any RNG. It's possible we need to save and reset to change up the RNG to something more favorable on occasion. Gathering materials at item points changes R2. Attack animations changes R2 rapidly for some reason. R1 apparently changes once per action or something. I haven't taken a close look at causes these changes yet. An initial R2 value is decided by the clock. I'm watching both R1 and R2 as I reset the game a few times, and while R1 seems to default to the same value of 0x04A8, R2 seems to be set to (second + minute*10 + hour*100). That gives an initial range of 0 to 2949 for R2, or 0x0000 to 0x0B85. Not as though these numbers mean anything yet for us, not until we get further information, of course. I'll keep looking. So far, the RNG seems to be trouble to manipulate. If nothing else, we probably can change the party formation so that enemies end up attacking exactly the ones who can take the hits.

Posted: 9/27/2010 2:45 PM

Quote

FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1202)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Okay, I took a deeper look at how it generates the next RNG. This line should explain it well enough: NewR= OldR*109 + 1021 Every time the game wants a new random number, it does this, but keeps it a two byte value. This is applied to R1 or R2 as necessary. I created a script which helps me to look at number of RNG rolls. I'm using it to check for a few things, such as quickly telling me just how many rolls take place with each action. So far, this is what I saw: - R2: 50 rolls - entering the options menu from title screen - R2: 1 roll - Entering the forest (encounter stuff?) - R2: 1 roll - Initiated a battle - R1: 2 rolls - Message saying Treerats have appeared (there are 2 of them) - R1: 13 rolls - Prior to your command input (Determining turn order and enemy actions, perhaps?) - R1: 12 rolls - Round begin / initiate attack of Alchemist - R2: 322 rolls - Melee animation (Wand) of Alchemist - R1: 3 rolls - Treerat initiate attack - R1: 3 rolls - initiate attack of Survivalist - R2: 370 rolls - Melee animation (Knife) of Survivalist ... Eh, let's not bore you with the turn by turn. The Wand animation rolls 322 times, and Knife animation rolls 370 times. Enemy attacks do not appear to roll R2 crazy-lots like this. So I'm going to analyze a few things using this script. Definitely better than doing things by hand -- Any thoughts on trying to check 370 rolls by hand? The script is this: Download EO_simpleRNGcheck.lua

Language: lua
local R= {{addr= 0x020E9D04, count= 0, panic= 0},
          {addr= 0x020E9D08, count= 0, panic= 0}}

R[1].n= memory.readword(R[1].addr)
R[2].n= memory.readword(R[2].addr)


--*****************************************************************************
local function Roll(rng) return bit.band( (rng*109 + 0x03FD) , 0xFFFF) end
--*****************************************************************************

--*****************************************************************************
local function ScanRNGs()
--*****************************************************************************
    for i= 1, 2 do
        local test= memory.readword(R[i].addr)
        local c= 0
        local sanity= false

        if test ~= R[i].n then
            local rng= R[i].n
            for i= 1, 200 do
                c= c+1
                rng= Roll(rng)
                if rng == test then  sanity= true; break  end
            end

            if sanity then
                R[i].count= R[i].count + c
            else
                R[i].panic= R[i].panic + 1
            end

            R[i].n= test
        end
    end
end

emu.registerafter(ScanRNGs)

--*****************************************************************************
local function DisplayRNGs()
--*****************************************************************************
    for i= 1, 2 do
        gui.text(40*i, 1, string.upper(string.format('%x',R[i].n)))
        gui.text(40*i,13, R[i].count,"green")
        gui.text(40*i,25, R[i].panic,"red")
    end
end

local keys, lastkeys= {}, {}
local function UpdateKeys()  lastkeys= keys; keys= input.get()  end
local function Press(k)  return keys[k] and (not lastkeys[k]) end
--*****************************************************************************
local function ResetStats()
--*****************************************************************************
    UpdateKeys()
    if Press("space") then
        for i= 1, 2 do
            R[i].count= 0
            R[i].panic= 0
        end
    end
end
gui.register(function()  ResetStats(); DisplayRNGs()  end)

I'm curious about names and what party I should make. In my quick test, these are the names I picked: Goo Goo - guild name C.Cannon - Landsknecht F.Knight - Protector GreenElf - Survivalist Look! HP - Medic Destiny - Alchemist Then there's SDA's route which says starting with TSMAA might be desirable. Considering how the RNG works, I get the impression that anything route-wise that may work there will apply here. I suspect a real-time speed-runner can match the route we make, step for step, and will successfully pull off anything we do using the actual console. All it takes is setting the clock to whatever we set and timing the initial moment where they turn on the game so that it matches down to the second. Fractions of a second doesn't matter here, it just needs to be precise to the second, not 1/60 of a second increment. Then it's closely studying what we do and matching everything from there. But other than that, someone still has to pioneer the (detailed, luck manipulating) route. I'm getting ideas from the RNG stuff, and since ShinerCCC at SDA did a good job of pioneering a general route, I might actually make some attempt to put the route to the test, TAS style. But first, names. I am going to spend several frames on significant names. This cost in time is likely a one-shot deal (all instances the names show up happen "instantly"; I do not expect extra lag), and we get recognizable names throughout the run. I feel the entertainment is justified for the tiny cost in time, so anyone got naming suggestions?

Posted: 9/28/2010 1:27 PM

Quote

FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1202)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Purposes of the random numbers (as identified so far): R1: 020E9D04 - Some pre-decision things (before you input commands in battle) - - Turn order - - I'm guessing this is the time the enemy "thinks" - Some post-decision things (After you input commands) - - Or perhaps this is the time the enemy "thinks". I'm not sure. - Player attacks - - Whether you hit - - Damage done - - Is it a critical? (not in any particular order, these are guesses) - - 1 more roll for Landsknecht. I'm guessing it's for 2-hit, whether or not the L even has it! - Enemy item drops R2: 020E9D08 - Chop/Mine/Take points, even if you can't get anything from them - Steps until next encounter - Type of encounter - Mysteriously rolled 50 times for entering the option from the title screen - - Opening the option from the party menu has no effect on RNG. - Called for player animations for unknown reasons - - 322: Melee, blunt - - 370: Melee, slash - - 346: Melee, pierce - - Landsknecht - - - 322: Crush - - Dark Hunter - - - 456: Viper - - Survivalist - - - 822 (per enemy): Trickery - - Troubadour - - - 23 (per ally): Shelter - - Alchemist - - - 1629: Poison Unfortunately, R1 is what decides everything important in a battle. R1 is hard to manipulate. It does not change depending on the DS clock at start-up, it does not increment through any out-of-battle actions, and any in-battle calls to R1 happen strictly when needed by the game. R1 is the crucial RNG for actually winning battles, and doesn't change easy. The only important effects R2 has is frequency of battles and what you'll crash into next. That's it. Peeking into the settings from the title screen to pre-roll it 50 times, a starting clock of 12:08:04 AM will give the maximum number of steps first time out. A starting clock of 1:02:07 PM will give the smallest number of steps until your first encounter. Although, if you happen to be nearby a gather point, even without the right skill on anyone, one can use it to manipulate what the next encounter will be. There's usually three different encounters you can find in a particular area, so if it's important to change up what your next battle is, it's a good idea to keep this in mind. The period of the RNG is 65536. R2 will probably wrap around back to old numbers several times over thanks to how rapidly animations cause it to roll. Especially Poison. R1 will need an awful lot of rolling before it comes back to reusing old numbers again. Okay, I think I'll start a new test run. Names I think I'll take for now: Test Run - Guild name S.Bowman - Survivalist M.Healer - Medic T.Jacks - Troubadour A.Pyro - Alchemist A.Cyan - Alchemist Any encoders around? I don't know how to produce half-decent videos, so feel free to encode whatever I do.

Posted: 10/5/2010 1:48 AM

Quote

FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1202)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

With a little luck, 4 out of 6 battles involved a single Clawbug. Any encoders? Currently deciding my shopping list. I originally considered grabbing 8 Red Charms, but I think I might want to pick up a few Hide Belts. Two on the Survivalist should be enough to have him survive one strike from a Fender, where Lv3 Poison wins the day. The Mole + Fender group is worth 80 Exp, which divided on a party of 5 gets 16 per person. Not bad, considering the alternatives (Venomfly is immune to poison, which cripples some early encounter-related options on the second floor). In order to help me plan things, I've studied the encounter data a bit and now holding on to these in my txt files, among other maps:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A 40% Treerat  Treerat              12xp
~,FFFFFFFFF~DDD~CCCC~III~ III~~~~~~   30% Mole                          15xp
~~~~~~~~~~E~,DD~C~~C~I~I~~~~I~~~~~~___30%_Treerat__Woodfly__Treerat_____24xp
~E,E~~~~~~E~,DDCC~~C~I~IIIIII~~~~~~ B 30% Treerat  Treerat              12xp
~EEE~DDD~~E~,DD~~~~C~I~~~~~ ~~~~~~~   40% Mole     Woodfly              27xp
~EEE,DDDEEE~DDD~CC~C~I~G~~HHH~~~~~~___30%_Treerat__Woodfly__Treerat_____24xp
~EEE~DDD~~~~~~~~~C~C~I~GG HH ~~~~~~ C 25% Treerat  Woodfly  Treerat     24xp
~~~~~~A~~~~~~~~~~C~C~I~G~~HHH~~~~~~   25% Mole                          15xp
~BBBBB.BBBBCCCCCCCCC~I~G~~~~~~~~~~~___50%_Woodfly__Woodfly__Woodfly_____36xp
~B~~~~A~~~~~~~~~~~~C,I~G~~HHH~~~~~~ D 30% Mole     Woodfly              27xp
~B~AAAAAAABBBBBCCC~C~I~GG HH ~~~~~~   30% Mole     Mole     Mole        45xp
~B~AAAAAAA~~~~~~~C~C~I~G~~HHH~~~~~~___40%_Clawbug_______________________34xp
~B~AAAAAAA~,EEEE~C~C~I~G~~~~~~~~~~~ E 40% Mole                          15xp
~B~AAAAAAA~,EEEE~B~C~I~G~~HHH~~~~~~   30% Clawbug                       34xp
~~~~~~.~~~~~~~~,~BCC~I~GG HH ~~~~~~___30%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole________45xp
~EEE~~.~~DDD~~~C~B~C~I~G~~HHH~~~~~~ F 40% Treerat  Woodfly  Treerat     24xp
~EDE~~.~~DDDCC~C~B~C~I~G~~~~~~~~~~~   20% Treerat  Clawbug  Treerat     46xp
~EEE~...,DDD~CCCCB~C~~~G~~~~G~~~~~~___40%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole________45xp
~~D~~...~~~~~~~C~C~C,GGGGGGGG~~~~~~
~~DD~~.~~D~~~~~C~C~C~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~D~~,~~DDDDCCC~C~C~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~D~D~~~~~~~~~D~~~C~C~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ G 30% Venomgel Venomgel            462xp
~DDDDDDDDDDDDDD~EC~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   30% Sleepgel Sleepgel            432xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~___40%_Sleepgel_Venomgel____________447xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ H 30% Sleepgel Venomgel            447xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   30% Waspior  Sleepgel Waspior    744xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~___40%_Waspior__Waspior_____________528xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I 30% Spider   Sloth    Spider    1042xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   30% Sleepgel Sloth    Sleepgel   852xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~___40%_Waspior__Sloth____Waspior____948xp


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A 30% Venomfly Venomfly             78xp
~,AAAAAA~.BBBB~B~BCC~CCCCCCCCDDD~,~   30% Mole     Venomfly Mole        69xp
~~~~~A~~~~~~~BBB~B~C~C~D~~~~~~~D~D~   40% Treerat  Hare                 42xp
~AAA~A~AAA~BBB~B~B~C~C~D~,DDDD~D~D~
~B~A~A~A~A~~~B~BBB~CCC~D~~~~~D~D~D~ B 40% Hare     Hare                 72xp
~B~A~A~A~ABB~B~~~B~D~C~DDDDDDD~D~D~   20% Venomfly Woodfly  Venomfly    90xp
~B~A~A~A~E~B~B~C~B~D~C~~~~~~~~~D~D~   40% Fender   Mole                 80xp
~B~AAAAA~E~BBB~BBB~D~CCCCCCDDD~D~D~
~B~~~~~A~E~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~DDDDD~ C 40% Mole     Venomfly Mole        69xp
~BBBBBBB~EBBBDBBDEBBBBEBBB~DDD~D~~~   20% Venomfly Venomfly Venomfly   117xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~B~~~~~~~~~~,~   40% Treerat  Hare                 42xp
~,~DDD~DDD~DEEED~C~CCECCCE~DDDDDDD~
~D~D~E~D~D~E~~~ECE~C~~~~~C,D~~~~~~~ D 50% Fender   Mole                 80xp
~EEE~EEE~EEEEEEE~CCCECCC~C~DDDDDD,~   25% Hare     Hare                 72xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   25% Venomfly Woodfly  Venomfly    90xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ E 30% Venomfly Woodfly  Venomfly    90xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   20% Venomfly Fender   Venomfly   143xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   50% Venomfly Fender   Venomfly   143xp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I seem to be able to manipulate encounters just fine. I'm considering picking up a bow for the Survivalist and hanging onto a knife for manipulation purposes. A pierce attack and a slash attack rolls R2 a different number of times, and I'm not really worried about a single point of difference in ATK. As I see it, I have two obvious options: Beat down Fender population, or do immediate quests. Either way, I need to use the inn to reload my poisons. As for the map... Well, me and lag got into an argument. Now I don't want to deal with lag anymore. Seeing as it's a test run, I don't see it critical that I mess around with the map, but I sort of have it sitting in a corner collecting dust and doing nothing useful for anyone. Hoping for a few thoughts. Wondering how poisoning Fenrir through that 95% resistance sounds...

Posted: 10/5/2010 2:46 AM

Quote

Wren

He/Him

Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan

I'm cheering you on all the way!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

Posted: 10/5/2010 5:21 AM

Quote

XkyRauh

He/Him

Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California

Wow. Even though I was skeptical about this becoming a reality, I have to admit I am cheering you on, as well. :)

Posted: 2/11/2011 5:18 PM

Quote

FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1202)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

Sorry about vanishing. My interests tend to waver a lot. Recently, I've been organizing all the Terence files and sorting out each floor. So, this is what I've got worked out for the first stratum. No TASing plans, but if I keep thinking about it, I might try a bit more myself. At least we can find the best level-up spots this way. Keep in mind, an RNG address I call R2 determines what we'll encounter, and that RNG isn't too hard to manipulate. There's a nice 210 exp encounter in floor 3, a significant jump over what's found in floors 1 or 2. Key, glossary, whatever

Many thanks to Terence for having extracted all this nice data.
Kept me busy sorting through things, too.

The left map tells what encounter group you'll face.
The right map tells how much each step affects the danger counter.
Following the maps, a list of actual encounters with total exp values.
Finally, the stats of the monsters themselves.

I wanted to find some way of keeping the monster data within 79 characters.
I can't fit all of it, I trimmed off the item data and unmarked bytes.
Wasn't enough, it was still too wide to display in a neat 79 character width.
I figured collapsing the damage and status resistances would help.
And sure enough, it's no longer horribly wide. I hope it's easy to read.

But now that it's collapsed, other readers will need a key to read it. Here:

Damage    Status
SBP:FIV : DEHAL  Damage is one of Slash, Blunt, Pierce, Fire, Ice, Volt
 X   0    x   0  Status is Death, Ailment, Head- Arm- Leg-bind
 .  10    .   1
 2  50    '   3  I picked E for Ailment as I was thinking Status *E*ffect
 3  75    1   5
 *  90    2  10
 4 100    3  15
 % 110    4  20
 5 125    5  25
 6 150    h  50
 8 200    *  65
 O 250    Y 100
 ! 300    O 150
          ! 200

Floor 1

___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.FFFFFFFFF_DDD_CCCC_III_.III______ _.333333333_555_3333_333_.333______
__________E_.DD_C__C_I_I____I______ __________3_.45_3__3_3_3____3______
_E.E______E_.DDCC__C_I_IIIIII______ _4.4______3_.4533__3_2_333333______
_EEE_DDD__E_.DD____C_I_____._______ _444_444__3_.45____3_2_____._______
_EEE.DDDEEE_DDD_CC_C_I_G__HHH______ _555.333333_555_55_3_2_3__555______
_EEE_DDD_________C_C_I_GG.HH.______ _555_333_________4_3_2_35.55.______
______A__________C_C_I_G__HHH______ ______4__________4_3_2_3__555______
_BBBBB.BBBBCCCCCCCCC_I_G___________ _33333.3322222233333_2_3___________
_B____A____________C.I_G__HHH______ _3____5____________2.2_3__555______
_B_AAAAAAABBBBBCCC_C_I_GG.HH.______ _3_333333322222233_2_2_35.55.______
_B_AAAAAAA_______C_C_I_G__HHH______ _3_3333333_______3_2_2_3__555______
_B_AAAAAAA_.EEEE_C_C_I_G___________ _3_3333333_.5544_3_2_2_3___________
_B_AAAAAAA_.EEEE_B_C_I_G__HHH______ _3_3333333_.5555_3_3_2_3__555______
______ ________._BCC_I_GG.HH.______ ______ ________._333_2_35.55.______
_EEE__ __DDD___C_B_C_I_G__HHH______ _666__ __555___3_3_3_3_3__555______
_EDE__ __DDDCC_C_B_C_I_G___________ _646__ __55533_3_3_2_3_3___________
_EEE_   .DDD_CCCCB_C___G____G______ _666_   .555_33333_2___3____5______
__D__   _______C_C_C.GGGGGGGG______ __3__   _______3_3_2.33333333______
__DD__ __D_____C_C_C_______________ __33__ __3_____3_3_3_______________
___D__.__DDDDCCC_C_C_______________ ___3__.__2222233_3_3_______________
_D_D_________D___C_C_______________ _3_3_________3___3_3_______________
_DDDDDDDDDDDDDD_EC_________________ _33333222223333_53_________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
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 A 40% Treerat  Treerat              12xp
   30% Mole                          15xp
___30%_Treerat__Woodfly__Treerat_____24xp
 B 30% Treerat  Treerat              12xp
   40% Mole     Woodfly              27xp
___30%_Treerat__Woodfly__Treerat_____24xp
 C 25% Treerat  Woodfly  Treerat     24xp
   25% Mole                          15xp
___50%_Woodfly__Woodfly__Woodfly_____36xp
 D 30% Mole     Woodfly              27xp
   30% Mole     Mole     Mole        45xp
___40%_Clawbug_______________________34xp
 E 40% Mole                          15xp
   30% Clawbug                       34xp
___30%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole________45xp
 F 40% Treerat  Woodfly  Treerat     24xp
   20% Treerat  Clawbug  Treerat     46xp
___40%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole________45xp

 G 30% Venomgel Venomgel            462xp
   30% Sleepgel Sleepgel            432xp
___40%_Sleepgel_Venomgel____________447xp
 H 30% Sleepgel Venomgel            447xp
   30% Waspior  Sleepgel Waspior    744xp
___40%_Waspior__Waspior_____________528xp
 I 30% Spider   Sloth    Spider    1042xp
   30% Sleepgel Sloth    Sleepgel   852xp
___40%_Waspior__Sloth____Waspior____948xp

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
004 Treerat      19  1| 10  14   9   9   7|444:644:YYYYY|    6   2 01
02B Woodfly      19  1| 11  14   9   9   7|444:448:YYYYY|   12   2 02
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
022 Clawbug      45  1| 25  16   9  10   8|222:OOO:YYYYY|   34   4 04

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
017 Sleepgel     88  1| 48  37  48  48  24|333:488:YYYYY|  216  18 0C
018 Venomgel    106  1| 63  38  20  22  17|333:488:YxYYY|  231  18 0D
027 Waspior      88  1| 52  39  25  25  25|444:446:YxYYY|  264  19 0E
00C Sloth       212  1| 84  44  23  26  20|444:284:YYYYY|  420  22 11
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
0A5 Ragelope    330  2| 45  26  27  27  18|333:448:15hhh|  297  12 52

Floor 2

___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.AAAAAA_.BBBB_B_BCC_CCCCCCCCDDD_._ _.333333_.4444_4_111_23333222222_._
_____A_______BBB_B_C_C_D_______D_D_ _____2_______223_2_5_3_3_______3_2_
_AAA_A_AAA_BBB_B_B_C_C_D_.DDDD_D_D_ _333_2_333_442_3_2_8_1_3_.3333_3_2_
_B_A_A_A_A___B_BBB_CCC_D_____D_D_D_ _3_3_2_3_2___2_332_532_3_____3_3_2_
_B_A_A_A_ABB_B___B_D_C_DDDDDDD_D_D_ _3_3_2_3_333_2___3_1_2_3333333_3_2_
_B_A_A_A_E_B_B_C_B_D_C_________D_D_ _3_3_2_3_4_3_2_8_3_1_2_________3_2_
_B_AAAAA_E_BBB_BBB_D_CCCCCCDDD_D_D_ _3_33353_4_332_553_3_111333222_3_2_
_B_____A_E___________________DDDDD_ _3_____3_4___________________23532_
_BBBBBBB_EBBBDBBDEBBBBEBBB_DDD_D___ _3333333_32224333442223444_444_4___
______________________B__________._ ______________________2__________._
_._DDD_DDD_DEEED_C_CCECCCE_DDDDDDD_ _._444_322_44645_4_3333442_6666666_
_D_D_E_D_D_E___ECE_C_____C.D_______ _4_4_4_4_1_5___211_3_____5.6_______
_EEE_EEE_EEEEEEE_CCCECCC_C_DDDDDD._ _222_333_1143443_1224444_5_666666._
___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
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___________________________________ ___________________________________
 A 30% Venomfly Venomfly             78xp
   30% Mole     Venomfly Mole        69xp
___40%_Treerat__Hare_________________42xp
 B 40% Hare     Hare                 72xp
   20% Venomfly Woodfly  Venomfly    90xp
___40%_Fender___Mole_________________80xp
 C 40% Mole     Venomfly Mole        69xp
   20% Venomfly Venomfly Venomfly   117xp
___40%_Treerat__Hare_________________42xp
 D 50% Fender   Mole                 80xp
   25% Hare     Hare                 72xp
___25%_Venomfly_Woodfly__Venomfly____90xp
 E 30% Venomfly Woodfly  Venomfly    90xp
   20% Venomfly Fender   Venomfly   143xp
___50%_Venomfly_Fender___Venomfly___143xp

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
004 Treerat      19  1| 10  14   9   9   7|444:644:YYYYY|    6   2 01
02B Woodfly      19  1| 11  14   9   9   7|444:448:YYYYY|   12   2 02
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
02C Venomfly     41  1| 22  18  13  13  13|444:446:YxYYY|   39   6 05
006 Hare         38  1| 23  19  14  14  14|444:444:YYYYY|   36   7 06
010 Fender       55  1| 36  23  13  15  12|444:448:YYYYY|   65  10 07
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
0A5 Ragelope    330  2| 45  26  27  27  18|333:448:15hhh|  297  12 52
0A6 Kuyutha     350  2| 48  27  29  29  19|446:444:15hhh|  301  13 53

Floor 3

___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.E_CCCCCC_BB_BBBBBBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _.8_444444_33_634511111_3333222222_
_.E.CCCCCE.BB_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _.8.444444.33_333_22222_3333222222_
_.E_CCCCCC_BB_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _.8_444444_33_333_22333_3333222222_
___________BB_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ ___________33_333_62333_3333222222_
_CCCCCCCCC.CC.BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _333333324.33.333_22333_3333222222_
_E______C__CC_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _4______2__33_333_22333_2222222222_
___CCCCCCC_CC_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ ___2333324_33_633_22333_2222222222_
_C_D_C_____CC_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _3_3_4_____33_333_22333_2222333333_
_D_D_CCCCC CC_BBB_BBBBB.AAAAAAAAAA_ _4_3_22224.33_333_22222.2222333333_
_DCD_______CC_BBB_BBBBB_AAAAAAAAAA_ _433_______33_333_22222_2222333333_
___D_DCCCC_________________________ ___2_43333_________________________
_C_D_C___CCCDCCCDC_._G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _3_2_3___222433342_._3_444_444_444_
_C_D___E_________C_F_G.HHH.HHH.HHH_ _3_2___7_________2_2_3.949.444.444_
_C_DCC_CCCDCCCCCDC_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _3_353_33343333342_2_3_494_444_444_
_C_D_C____C___C____F_G__.___.___.__ _3_3_3____3___2____2_3__.___.___.__
_DCD_C_CCCCCCCCCCC_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _253_3_33333333333_2_3_444_494_444_
_D_C_C___.___.___._F_G.HHH.HHH.HHH_ _2_5_3___.___.___._2_3.444.949.444_
_D___C_DDD_DDE_DDE_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _2___3_338_334_334_2_3_444_494_444_
_DCCCC.DDD_DDD_DDD_F_G__.___.___.__ _23333.333_334_334_2_3__.___.___.__
_______DDD_DDD_DDD_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _______333_334_334_2_3_494_444_444_
_______.___.___.___F_G.HHH.HHH.HHH_ _______.___.___.___2_3.949.444.444_
_DDDDDDDDDDDD_DDDD_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _333333333333_5555_2_3_494_444_444_
____.___.___.___D__F_G__.___.___.__ ____.___.___.___5__2_3__.___.___.__
_._EEE_EEE_EEE_DDD_F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _._454_333_333_555_2_3_494_444_494_
_E_E.E_EEE_EEE_D.D_F_G HHH.HHH.HHH_ _2_4.4_333_333_5.5_2_3.949.444.944_
_E_EEE_EEE_EEE_____F_G_HHH_HHH_HHH_ _2_444_333_333_____2_3_494_444_494_
_E______.________E_F_G__.___.___.__ _2______.________5_2_3__.___.___.__
_EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.FFGGGGGGGGGGGGG_ _23333322222333333.233333333333333_
___________________________________ ___________________________________
 A 30% Treerat  Mandrake Treerat            71xp
   30% Treerat  Mandrake Treerat            71xp
___40%_Mandrake_Mandrake___________________118xp
 B 20% Treerat  Mandrake Treerat            71xp
   40% Hare     Hare     Roller   Roller   210xp
___40%_Venomfly_Mole_____Mole_____Venomfly_108xp
 C 30% Treerat  Roller   Mandrake Treerat  140xp
   30% Venomfly Mole     Mole     Venomfly 108xp
___40%_Venomfly_Roller___Venomfly__________147xp
 D 30% Mandrake Mandrake                   118xp
   40% Hare     Hare     Roller   Roller   210xp
___30%_Mandrake_Clawbug__Mandrake__________152xp
 E 50% Mandrake Clawbug  Mandrake          152xp
   25% Venomfly Roller   Venomfly          147xp
___25%_Treerat__Roller___Mandrake_Treerat__140xp

 F 30% Spider   Petaloid Spider            966xp
   30% Maneater Petaloid                   864xp
___40%_Petaloid_Petaloid___________________688xp
 G 30% Petaloid Firebird Petaloid         1108xp
   30% Scorpion Sleepgel                   716xp
___40%_Maneater_Fangleaf___________________850xp
 H 30% Firebird                            420xp
   30% Spider   Scorpion Spider           1122xp
___40%_Petaloid_Petaloid___________________688xp

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
004 Treerat      19  1| 10  14   9   9   7|444:644:YYYYY|    6   2 01
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
022 Clawbug      45  1| 25  16   9  10   8|222:OOO:YYYYY|   34   4 04
02C Venomfly     41  1| 22  18  13  13  13|444:446:YxYYY|   39   6 05
006 Hare         38  1| 23  19  14  14  14|444:444:YYYYY|   36   7 06
058 Mandrake     51  1| 27  23  16  16  16|444:622:.hYYh|   59  10 08
008 Roller       40  1| 28  25  17  17  17|333:466:YYYYY|   69  11 09
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
0A6 Kuyutha     350  2| 48  27  29  29  19|446:444:15hhh|  301  13 53
054 Stalker     600  2| 72  38  36  36  24|242:544:.3555|  600  18 66

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
017 Sleepgel     88  1| 48  37  48  48  24|333:488:YYYYY|  216  18 0C
02F Spider       88  1| 56  41  26  26  26|444:646:YxYYY|  311  20 0F
038 Fangleaf    225  1| 78  42  22  25  19|444:644:hxYYY|  330  21 10
03A Petaloid    135  1| 64  44  28  28  28|444:644:hxYYY|  344  22 12
03D Firebird    135  1| 66  44  58  58  29|445:.52:YYYYY|  420  23 14
039 Maneater    230  1| 89  49  24  27  21|444:644:hxYYY|  520  24 15
031 Scorpion    122  1| 63  52  28  28  47|444:448:YxYYY|  500  25 16
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
00E Armoth     1200  2|119  57  50  50  33|333:444:.3555| 2040  27 67
070 Golem      7000  3|200 120  30  30  30|222:555:21555|    0  30 79

Floor 4

___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.DDD_DDDDD_DD_F_G_.EE_____________ _.222_33324_43_3_6_.55_____________
____D_D__D___D_F.G_EEE_____________ ____3_3__2___3_3.6_555_____________
_DD_D_DD_DDDDD_F___EEE_____________ _66_3_35_23332_3___555_____________
_.D.BBB______C_F.G___._____________ _.6.333______3_3.8___._____________
_DD_B_B_CCCC_C_F___._E_____________ _66_3_3_3111_4_3___._3_____________
____BBB_CCCC_C_F G_G_E_____________ ____333_3161_3_3.6_6_3_____________
_DD______._CCC_F_G.G_E_____________ _66______._222_2_6.6_3_____________
_DD_BBBBBB___._F.G___E_____________ _66_222224___._2.6___3_____________
_.__B____B_.___F_G.G_E_____________ _.__1____4_.___2_6.7_3_____________
_A_ABC_AAA_BBB_F.G_G_E_____________ _3_212_335_549_2.6_7_2_____________
_A_A_D_A_A_B_B_F___G_E_____________ _3_1_5_3_5_9_6_2___7_3_____________
_A_A___A_A_BBB_F.G_._E_____________ _3_1___3_5_522_3.8_._3_____________
_A_A_AAA_A___._F_____E_____________ _1_2_333_5___._3_____3_____________
_A_BAA___BB _B_F.GGG_E_____________ _1_111___11 _1_3.661_2_____________
_A___ BBB _B_B_F___G_E_____________ _1___ 111 _1_1_3___1_3_____________
_ B _A_____ A _F.GGG_E_____________ _ 1 _1_____ 1 _3.661_3_____________
_B_B_A_ C _B_B_F___G_E_____________ _1_1_1_ 1 _1_1_3___1_2_____________
_A_B_A_C_C_B_B_F.GGG_E_____________ _1_1_1_1_1_1_1_3.661_2_____________
_B_B_A_C_C_B_B_F_____E_____________ _1_1_1_1_1_1_1_2_____2_____________
_ B B B B B A _F.GG._E_____________ _ 1 1 1 1 1 1 _2.77._3_____________
_____A_________F_____E_____________ _____1_________2_____3_____________
_ .AA _ CCCCC _F.EEEEE_____________ _ .11 _ 11111 _2.33333_____________
_____A_A_____C_F___________________ _____1_1_____1_3___________________
_.AAA B BBA _C_F.G_FFF_____________ _.111 1 111 _1_3.8_261_____________
_____A_____A_A_F___F_F_____________ _____1_____1_1_3___2_1_____________
_ BBB BAA A _C_F.FFF_F_____________ _ 111 111 1 _1_3.662_1_____________
_A_______A___C_F_____F_____________ _1_______1___1_3_____1_____________
_ AAA. ._ CAC _F.FFFFF_____________ _ 111. ._ 111 _3.66661_____________
___________________________________ ___________________________________
 A 50% Clawfly                               98xp
   30% Venomfly Fender   Venomfly           143xp
___20%_Hare_____Hare_____Hare_____Hare______144xp
 B 50% Venomfly Fender   Venomfly           143xp
   30% Mandrake Roller   Roller   Mandrake  256xp
___20%_Hare_____Hare_____Hare_____Hare______144xp
 C 40% Roller   Clawbug  Clawbug  Roller    206xp
   40% Mandrake Roller   Roller   Mandrake  256xp
___20%_Mole_____Clawfly__Mole_______________128xp
 D 40% Clawbug  Clawfly  Clawbug            166xp
   20% Hare     Hare     Hare     Hare      144xp
___40%_Mole_____Clawfly__Mole_______________128xp

 E 30% Waspior  Waspior  Waspior            792xp
   30% Venomgel Sleepgel Venomgel           678xp
___40%_Maneater_____________________________520xp
 F 30% Fangleaf                             330xp
   30% Maneater                             520xp
___40%_Maneater_____________________________520xp
 G 30% Sloth    Maneater                    940xp
   30% Fangleaf Maneater                    850xp
___40%_Sleepgel_Sloth____Venomgel___________867xp

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
022 Clawbug      45  1| 25  16   9  10   8|222:OOO:YYYYY|   34   4 04
02C Venomfly     41  1| 22  18  13  13  13|444:446:YxYYY|   39   6 05
006 Hare         38  1| 23  19  14  14  14|444:444:YYYYY|   36   7 06
010 Fender       55  1| 36  23  13  15  12|444:448:YYYYY|   65  10 07
058 Mandrake     51  1| 27  23  16  16  16|444:622:.hYYh|   59  10 08
008 Roller       40  1| 28  25  17  17  17|333:466:YYYYY|   69  11 09
023 Clawfly      65  1| 45  29  16  18  14|222:X!!:YYYYY|   98  14 0A
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
001 Wolf        260  2| 51  29  30  30  20|444:624:25444|  525  14 54

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
017 Sleepgel     88  1| 48  37  48  48  24|333:488:YYYYY|  216  18 0C
018 Venomgel    106  1| 63  38  20  22  17|333:488:YxYYY|  231  18 0D
027 Waspior      88  1| 52  39  25  25  25|444:446:YxYYY|  264  19 0E
038 Fangleaf    225  1| 78  42  22  25  19|444:644:hxYYY|  330  21 10
00C Sloth       212  1| 84  44  23  26  20|444:284:YYYYY|  420  22 11
039 Maneater    230  1| 89  49  24  27  21|444:644:hxYYY|  520  24 15
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
014 Cutter      790  2|119  57  50  50  33|444:444:25555|  973  27 57

Floor 5

___________________________________ ___________________________________
_.AAAAAAAAAAAA_FFF_.IIIIII_HHH.GGG_ _.333333332333_777_.333333_353.555_
__________A_____A________IIH_H_GGG_ __________2_____4________353_3_555_
_AAAAACAAAAACBAAACA___IIII_H_H_GGG_ _433333333333324233___8333_3_3_558_
___ ____B____B____AA___I_I_H_H___._ ___.____3____3____33___3_3_3_3___._
_BBB_BBBBB_BBBBCB__B___I_I_H_HHH_G_ _222_22224_233434__3___3_3_3_353_3_
_B___C_____B___B__BBB_IIIIIH_H_H_G_ _3___3_____3___3__243_333323_3_3_3_
_C_BBCCCCCCCBB_BBBB_C_I___I__HHH_G_ _4_44222333232_3242_5_3___5__353_3_
_B_C_______C_C_C__C_B IIIIIHHHH__._ _3_2_______3_2_3__2_2.333335535__._
_B_C_CCCCCCC_C_CC_F_B___________.E_ _3_2_2222333_2_32_3_2___________.6_
_B_C_C___C___F__C_C_CCCCCCCCCC._EE_ _3_2_3___6___4__2_3_4432222227._66_
_B_C_C_C_CCFCCC_C_F_____________EE_ _3_2_3_4_334333_2_3_____________68_
_B_C_C_C_F_CC_CCCCC_FF_EFE_EEEE__._ _2_2_3_4_2_33_33333_42_535_2333__._
_B_C_CCC_C_C_________F_EFF.E__EE_E_ _2_2_332_4_3_________2_346.3__23_3_
_B_C_C_C_C_C_ __.__ _E_EFE_EE__E_E_ _2_2_3_3_4_3_ __.__ _3_543_34__3_2_
_B_C_C_CCC_C_       _E_____CEC_E_E_ _2_2_3_333_3_       _3_____344_3_2_
_B_C_C__E__C_ __ __ _F_FEF_C_E_E_E_ _2_2_3__2__3_ __ __ _2_253_3_2_2_2_
_B_F_CF_E_FC_ _   _ _F_EEE.C_E_C_E_ _2_3_37_2_63_ _   _ _2_555.3_2_2_2_
_B_C____E_______ ____C_FEF_E_E_C_E_ _3_2____2_______ ____2_253_3_2_2_3_
_B_CDDD_E_DD____ ____C_____ _E_C_E_ _3_2222_2_53____ ____2_____._2_2_2_
_C____D_E__D_ __ __ _F_FFFFE_E_E_E_ _4____3_2__2_ __ __ _4_33333_2_2_2_
_B_.._D_EDDD_ __ __ _E_FFFF__E_E_E_ _3_.._3_2332_ __ __ _5_3333__2_2_2_
_B_FF_D_E__D_       _F_FFFF_FE_E_E_ _3_99_3_3__3_       _2_3333_52_3_2_
_._.__F_EE_D____.____F_FFFF____E_E_ _._.__2_33_3____.____2_3333____3_3_
_CCCC_D_CEEDDDD_FFFFFF.FFFF._EEE_E_ _4333_3_5334444_332233.3333._333_3_
_C__C_D___E___D______________E___._ _4__3_3___3___4______________3___._
_CCCC_DDD_EEEEEEEEECCCCEEEEEEE_DDD_ _4333_333_22233322222222333332_333_
_C_C___________________________D_D_ _4_6___________________________3_3_
_CCCC.DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD,DDD_ _4336.332222222333333222222333.353_
___________________________________ ___________________________________
 A 50% Warbull                             120xp
   30% Fender   Fender                     130xp
___20%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole_____Mole______60xp
 B 30% Mandrake Warbull  Mandrake          238xp
   10% Roller   Clawfly  Roller   Roller   305xp
___60%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole_____Mole______60xp
 C 30% Fender   Fender                     130xp
   50% Warbull                             120xp
___20%_Mandrake_Warbull__Mandrake__________238xp
 D 40% Warbull                             120xp
   20% Warbull  Warbull                    240xp
___40%_Mole_____Mole_____Mole_____Mole______60xp
 E 50% Fender   Fender                     130xp
   30% Mandrake Warbull  Mandrake          238xp
___20%_Roller___Clawfly__Roller___Roller___305xp
 F 20% Warbull  Warbull                    240xp
   30% Mandrake Warbull  Mandrake          238xp
___50%_Roller___Clawfly__Roller___Roller___305xp

 G 30% Venomgel Venomgel                   462xp
   30% Sleepgel Sleepgel                   432xp
___40%_Sleepgel_Venomgel___________________447xp
 H 30% Sleepgel Venomgel                   447xp
   30% Waspior  Sleepgel Waspior           744xp
___40%_Waspior__Waspior____________________528xp
 I 30% Spider   Sloth    Spider           1042xp
   30% Sleepgel Sloth    Sleepgel          852xp
___40%_Waspior__Sloth____Waspior___________948xp


### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
00A Mole         23  1| 12  15  10  10   7|444:484:YYYYY|   15   3 03
010 Fender       55  1| 36  23  13  15  12|444:448:YYYYY|   65  10 07
058 Mandrake     51  1| 27  23  16  16  16|444:622:.hYYh|   59  10 08
008 Roller       40  1| 28  25  17  17  17|333:466:YYYYY|   69  11 09
023 Clawfly      65  1| 45  29  16  18  14|222:X!!:YYYYY|   98  14 0A
012 Warbull     140  1| 52  33  18  20  16|444:666:!!YYY|  120  16 0B
### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
001 Wolf        260  2| 51  29  30  30  20|444:624:25444|  525  14 54
082 Skoll       400  2| 54  30  32  32  21|444:624:25444|  612  15 6F
097 Fenrir     1200  3| 96  46  48  24  48|444:6X4:x1YYY| 2500  18 70

### +-Name-+  HP--+   |STR VIT AGI LUC TEC|SBP:FIV:DEHAL|EXP-+ Lvl
017 Sleepgel     88  1| 48  37  48  48  24|333:488:YYYYY|  216  18 0C
018 Venomgel    106  1| 63  38  20  22  17|333:488:YxYYY|  231  18 0D
027 Waspior      88  1| 52  39  25  25  25|444:446:YxYYY|  264  19 0E
02F Spider       88  1| 56  41  26  26  26|444:646:YxYYY|  311  20 0F
00C Sloth       212  1| 84  44  23  26  20|444:284:YYYYY|  420  22 11

Posted: 2/11/2011 10:40 PM

Quote

Wren

He/Him

Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan

That's really cool information. Here's hoping it gets put to TAS use.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.

Posted: 6/29/2021 5:21 PM

Quote

ninespaces

Active player (391)

Joined: 7/19/2019
Posts: 62

Here's an EO1 USA TAS I constructed. I say constructed because I didn't come up with any of the routing. Instead, I relied on the (super impressive) RTA strats.

Posted: 6/30/2021 5:59 PM

Quote

XkyRauh

He/Him

Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California

That was a very fun watch! I knew the Hexers were busted, but Suicide is just hilariously powerful. :) Are there any plans to do the sixth hidden stratum?

Posted: 6/30/2021 9:09 PM

Quote

ninespaces

Active player (391)

Joined: 7/19/2019
Posts: 62

XkyRauh wrote:

That was a very fun watch! I knew the Hexers were busted, but Suicide is just hilariously powerful. :) Are there any plans to do the sixth hidden stratum?

Maybe one day. The post-game bosses (esp. Primevil) require some fairly specific setups, so a bunch of fairly boring xp grinding would have to happen, I think.

Posted: 7/6/2021 2:56 PM

Quote

FatRatKnight

Editor, Skilled player (1202)

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085

I will say, from my prior analysis, the game's RNG looks RTA-viable to manipulate. To the extent that a TAS can't do any better, provided the RTA doesn't make mistakes like stepping wrong or some nasty mis-menuing. Really, the trickiest bit is starting the game on the right second for the clock seed. Basically, I'm wondering if any RTA strategies made use of RNG manipulation. ... I'll be watching the run, I'm interested.

Posted: 10/26/2022 12:02 AM

Post subject: Something for future TAS creators to consider... maybe?

Quote

ninespaces

Active player (391)

Joined: 7/19/2019
Posts: 62

Just posting this here in case someone stumbles across it one day and it might prove useful. Ren & Tlatchga can be petrified -- the odds are just very low (3%). I suspect that with the right RNG manipulation, this fight could be over in 2 turns with 1 Dark Hunter, and maybe 1 turn with 2. The current RTA WR and the TAS I made (which shamelessly copies the RTA) uses a strat that takes a whopping 21 turns (~4 minutes), so a petrify strat could potentially be a big time save. But, I haven't confirmed whether it can be done. You have to get pre-emptive and petrify Tlatchga before she binds the party. Ren is also highly likely to 1-shot someone. Plus, I don't know to what degree it would mess up earlier/later sections. But something to consider at least.

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