About this game

Lagrange Point was released only in Japan by Konami in 1992. This game was produced not only by workers for Konami but also by the readers of one of the video game magazines, Family Computer Magazine. The team created this game is called Game Koubou, which was founded for the anniversary of the 100th publication of that magazine. It was the readers that designed characters, monsters, events, message-texts, music and the title-screen, etc. The sound quality of this game is incredibly excellent because of the Konami's VRC7 sound generator Integrated Circuit. That's why many Japanese people say that this game is a masterpiece on Famicon, and I think that, too.
This game itself is a field-type RPG. The battle system is turn-based. The era on this game is near future. The story is that a biohazard occurred in one colony, so the investigative team headed for there. Main character is Gin, who belongs to the team. What will happen around him?

Emulator information:

  • FCUEX 2.1.3 or later version with Old PPU
Note: Please avoid using 2.1.2 or older version. It causes a chain of desyncs because the RAM is not initialized. And don't forget to check Old PPU.
Just run this script before you replay the movie.

Goals

  • Aims for fastest time
  • Takes damages to save time
  • Uses a lot of death warps as a shortcut
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Genre: RPG

Streaming Video

Whole run in one with full of subtitles.
If it's annoying, fewer subtitles are here. (Note: Nicovideo's account is necessary.) part1, part2, part3

How to luckmanipulate

Avoids random battles

By changing RNG when and how to push the direction key or A-button, you can avoid a random battle. You can also change the monster formation you encounter by this.
What you have to be careful is that you can't walk pushing A-button just when the step-counter gains in dungeon. I was very careful in order not to do so. On normal play you have to fight at least once every twenty steps, so avoiding random battles may be harder than it looks.

Manipulates luck in battle

The order of one turn and the action each character takes have been determined by the display of the first message in the turn. So the timing of the last character's command input is very important.
After the display of the battle messages in one turn starts, you can manipulate critical and the amount of damage by delaying the message display. The critical or the effect attack of the first actor can NOT be manipulated by delaying messages. These are manipulated by the timing of the last character's command input.
That when and how to delay pushing A-button was quite difficult problem because the results were very different even if it was the same frames' delay.

Glitches, Tricks and Strategies

Glitch Battle

First you have to disorder the enemy which attacks twice in one turn. Then when the disordered enemy attacks another enemy and beats it by the first attack, the second attack hits a glitched enemy and beats it.
The glitched enemy has a lot of EXP and Colon (Money) and is different according to the monster formations. I tested this a lot and optimized this. Ranking (Leveling) up is very long but it is necessary. Character's rank must be high in order to equip a strong weapon on this game. Obtaining infinite Colon is also quite long and essential because you need a lot of Colon in order to composite a strong weapon. Glitch battle itself is well-known to Japanese players.

Obtaining EXP and Colon running away

On this game you needn't win the battle in order to obtain EXP and Colon. Just run away after beating some enemies. This was found by me.

Item duplication glitch

When you use an item in a battle and then you are knocked out at the same turn, the item you used is not consumed. This glitch was found by me. Thanks to this glitch, I saved the time buying for one Shulla Bomb, which disorders one enemy.

Buying a hidden item

Press up + A at the same time when the cursor is the top item, which is sold at the store or the armor shop, then you can buy a hidden item. This glitch is also well-known to Japanese players. I used it in order to buy Heat Sabre x2 at Fiber City and Heat Sabre x24 at Satellite Base.

Changing direction during dialogue

Just hold the direction key during dialogue, you can change the player's direction. It's funny, in my opinion. If you are keen on reading subtitles, you might not be noticed it. This trick was found by me.

Making a door in void

This glitch can work at the limited places and was found by me. Press the direction key where the door doesn't exist just before you open a door, then you can make a door in void. It is neither timesaver nor slower, but it's funny, isn't it?

Death Warps

There are not any escaping item or spell on this game, so I have to rely on death warps.
In order to do quick death warps, first, I manipulated Gin's HP to be the lowest during ranking up. Second, monster formations are very different according to the number of step-counter when you encounter. Third, the lag when the monsters are appearing is also defferent according to the monster formations. Fourth, the minimum steps are ten on field and seven in dungeon. I checked this by over 20k re-records on another fm2. And the battle itself, all things considered, I did the fastest death warps.

Obtaining a Hydro-Wing earlier

This is a little sequence break. After obtaining an Oxygen Cylinder at Cosmo City, you can walkthrough Vesta 2 and obtain a Hydro-Wing, which enables you to warp to the town which you have ever visited. Thanks to this glitch, you can skip a dungeon to Ozone City. Although Vesta 2 is a long dungeon, I used a Hydro-Wing several times in endgame, so getting it earlier is faster. This glitch is also well-known to Japanese players.

Minimize the lag when you choose a vehicle

When you choose a vehicle, don't select a Mobile unless it is necessary. The lag for choosing a Mobile is longer.

Boss Strategy

The basic strategy is Chris's flash, Astro's bomber and then critical. Chris's flash stops enemies for two turns. It is effective even against a boss. I found this when I was watching someone's let's play on nicovideo. I feel the probability of its effectiveness is about ten percent. Any boss has its own attack animation on this game. It's cool. But, unfortunately, this is a TAS so I have to skip it by Chris's flash. Astro's bomber enhances character's attack power to be 1.5 times for three turns. Both special attacks consume their own HP. I tested and calculated in order not to have any surplus curing item.
It is needless to say that the final and the second final boss were the hardest parts. I'd like to say the final Oregi and Ash were harder than they looks. I had to manipulate not only critical twice successively but also the amount of damage to be high.

Secret message from KONAMI

If you wait for about thirty minutes after the display of the 'Fin' message on endroll, you'll see a secret message from Konami. I suggest cutting the time for waiting it like Secret of Evermore when we encode this.

Known Improvements

Like many other RPGs, better luckmanipulation would save time, but I doubt it. You can guess from the re-recording counts that I manipulated luck severely. There are a few things you may take it for slow, but it's the fastest. e.g. Morita's battle message could be cancelled but only seven frames you could take to do. I tried to cancel it but it took over seven frames to do.

At first I was very reluctant to submit it, and I have still been because of the language barrier. But Star Ocean, Metal Max, Madou Monogatari I, etc. are on this site. Some members encouraged me, so I submitted it, thanks. I hope you enjoy it.

FractalFusion: Might as well admit that I'm accepting the run. I'll handle the encoding. We'll use caitsith2's encoding.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15601
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2719: neo_omegon's NES Lagrange Point in 1:03:25.10
Active player (437)
Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington
I mean this with the utmost respect, this run was incredibly boring. The subtitles were extremely nice though. Almost made me want to vote yes on the run just because of that. I've never played the game, but I'm sure you've done a fantastic job with the run. However I feel that the game is not suitable for a TAS. Almost the entire run was walking and no boss battles or anything. The glitch battle was novel at first, but it just dragged on and on. I'm sure it was necessary, but it was awful to watch. I'm sorry to say I only watched the first 25min as it's all I could handle, I would normally try to finish watching the entire thing, but I can't handle another 35min. Vote: No Last thing though, NOOOOOOO Tam died! =( R.I.P. Tam
I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
Player (160)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Thanks for the comments, Deign. In endgame, there are many boss battles. It’s the highlight, I think. At the final and the second final boss, I took over 15k re-records. Optimization was very hard. Another person’s TAS is on youtube. So the run of this game was sooner or later submitted by someone, I think. My old run is on Nicovideo. I optimized at all points. It took about ten months. If you compare it with my submitted run, you’ll think the latest one is better, although it's natural.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 95
I thought the run was no less interesting than some of the other RPGs on the site. Entertainment value has been known to fall as optimization improves, so it's likely a decent game I never played, taken to an extreme that many games on the site have been taken to before. Yes vote, because I appreciated knowing what was going. I'd say the subtitles and notes were the only thing that makes the run bearable from an entertainment standpoint, but either way, it is a well optimized run.
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
the subtitles show how much you did put your efforts in making this run. i liked the run and the subs are a definite plus. yes vote.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Requesting a MP4 encode with the subtitles in it.
Previous Name: boct1584
Banned User
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
Great TAS for RPG Game!Yes Vote.To be honest,I haven't finished this game,it is you who let me see the end(end online),thank you neo_omegon. By the way,do you like "Mouryou Senki Madara (J).nes"-another Japanese RPG Game?It is also from Konami,and its music is VRC6.Do you want to tas it?~~hehehehe
work hard
Player (160)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
I’m happy that you like my subtitles. This run makes you think what kind of TAS for RPG is good. e.g. Randam battle on FFs is unavoidable. Some people regard this as unsuitable for TASing. e.g. Which cutscene is better, longer or shorter? e.g. Is instant-kill better or cheaper? Sorry, this topic should come to the wrong place.
Xipo wrote:
By the way,do you like "Mouryou Senki Madara (J).nes"-another Japanese RPG Game?It is also from Konami,and its music is VRC6.Do you want to tas it?~~hehehehe
Sorry, I’m not familiar with Madara series. TAS of Madara doesn’t seem to exist on youtube nor on nicovideo.
Editor
Joined: 3/10/2010
Posts: 899
Location: Sweden
neo_omegon wrote:
I’m happy that you like my subtitles. This run makes you think what kind of TAS for RPG is good. e.g. Randam battle on FFs is unavoidable. Some people regard this as unsuitable for TASing. e.g. Which cutscene is better, longer or shorter? e.g. Is instant-kill better or cheaper?
Skippable cutscenes are the best. If we wanted story, we would have played the game ourselves. Instant kills are definitely more entertaining. They raise the HSQ when done properly.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
I think that the RPGs that are suitable for TASing meet one of the following conditions: * Many people have played the RPG in the past. * Large portions of the game can be skipped by TASers. You need a large audience of people who have played the game because people who have not played the game are not as likely to enjoy it. This is far more true for RPGs than it is for other types of games. Alternately, you need massive skips so that even people who have not played the game can appreciate how broken the "gameplay" is. Without either of these two, most people who watch the run will become bored.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
The subtitles were a major help; much thanks for making them. The battles themselves are still hard to follow. On the other hand, the glitches were quite amusing; I liked seeing important conversations happen with your back turned :-) I did need to use fast forward after the first half, but I don't think that was a serious problem standing in the way of acceptance of this run. I imagine this run would be a big hit with people who have played this game. Concerning your questions about RPG, I have a thought about instant kills. An instant kill is only cheap if the fighting is normally entertaining. For instance, in Final Fantasy, the Bane Sword is an instakill, and it's fine there because otherwise the fights drag on for a long time selecting menu options. Furthermore, it's impresive that the Bane Sword works so well. On the other hand, in Secret of Mana, a boss instakill has been found. However, the boss fights of Secret of Mana have so much action that the instakill is a lot less interesting. (For instance, the instakill means you see a lot less of the game's variety of spells being used.)
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Player (160)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Derakon: That’s it I’d like to say. Especially, your first rule is important. mklip2001: Yeah, I cut all the random battles which were not necessary. And in my run, I beat bosses legitimately but it’s nearly instant kill because of high damage. Anyway, I’m looking forward to SoM’s TAS, though it’s off the topic. One of the main reason I submitted this run was another person’s TAS on youtube. It was made by non-Japanese and the audience was non-native. So I thought this game was acceptable for non-Japanese. There are many TASes of the games released only in Japan on nicovideo. I think some of them have enough quality to be submitted here. But they are wise enough to understand the Derakon’s first rule. They won’t submit it. I am so Baka that I submitted my run. :P
caitsith2
He/Him
Player (47)
Joined: 3/26/2004
Posts: 194
boct1584 wrote:
Requesting a MP4 encode with the subtitles in it.
EDIT: Finished encoding. Archive.org linky or Direct linky. Full subtitles are in this encode.
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
In the event that this movie is accepted, an encode without subtitles (or with soft subtitles as opposed to hard subtitles) would be desirable. The subtitles currently aren't in a form conducive for embedding as soft subtitles, however; they'd need to be re-written in a more traditional subtitle format (.sub or .srt text files) for that to be possible. In the absence of that, I think an argument could be made for publishing both a non-subtitled encode and this hard-subtitled encode due to the large utility of the subtitles in this case.
Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 150
I've had a copy of this in my library for the longest time to show off to people when I want to make a convincing argument that sound was better handled in the FCS than the NES. Always kinda wondered if it was any good as a game. Seems it probably is! There's a lot of attention to detail in the game on many fronts. Makes for a pretty interesting viewing, and the run here is precise and well-planned. The subtitles are a great help, too. It's not too long for an RPG, and the necessary parts are sufficiently amusing to merit my Yes vote.
caitsith2
He/Him
Player (47)
Joined: 3/26/2004
Posts: 194
No Subtitle encode available. Archive.org linky or Direct Linky. EDIT: Adding Screenshots
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
I was entertained well enough by this movie, and the dialogue being subtitles was a godsend. There was a fair bit of downtime, but the extra info in the subtitles made up for it. Yes vote.
Previous Name: boct1584
Editor
Joined: 3/10/2010
Posts: 899
Location: Sweden
Requesting encode with soft subtitles (not burned in).
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
henke37 wrote:
Requesting encode with soft subtitles (not burned in).
To do that, we'd need subtitles that are in a subtitle format that can be embedded as opposed to a Lua script.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
henke37 wrote:
Skippable cutscenes are the best. If we wanted story, we would have played the game ourselves.
In this instance, I disagree, because Lagrange Point was never translated, either officially or unofficially, and not everybody reads Japanese. I certainly don't; that's why I requested the subbed encode. I think that showing the cutscenes (but skipping any instances of repeats where possible) would have been a more than acceptable speed-for-entertainment tradeoff, especially in an hour-long movie.
Instant kills are definitely more entertaining. They raise the HSQ when done properly.
Considering the battles don't have any subtitles to explain what the characters are doing (aside from the glitch battles) I'll agree with this. (What's "HSQ," though?)
Previous Name: boct1584
Player (160)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Thank you for all the comments. caitsith2: Thank you for encoding and nice screenshots.
boct1584 wrote:
I think that showing the cutscenes (but skipping any instances of repeats where possible) would have been a more than acceptable speed-for-entertainment tradeoff, especially in an hour-long movie.
Sorry, I was going to beat my old run on Nicovideo so I skipped all the skippable cutscenes. And this game isn’t hex-edit friendly. About re-writing subtitles: Sorry, I have never made .sub nor .srt text files. I used memory.readbyte on lua. I don’t know how to display enemy’s HP and step-counter in .sub or .srt text files. I am not a native English speaker. There are grammatical errors in my subtitles that I don’t notice. The duration and the coordinate of the messages might be improved. I was wondering if someone would re-write it, though it may be my task.
KennyMan666
He/Him
Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
boct1584 wrote:
(What's "HSQ," though?)
Holy Shit Quotient.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Editor
Joined: 3/10/2010
Posts: 899
Location: Sweden
sgrunt wrote:
henke37 wrote:
Requesting encode with soft subtitles (not burned in).
To do that, we'd need subtitles that are in a subtitle format that can be embedded as opposed to a Lua script.
The lua script looks like it has a very clear pattern. Some basic pattern recognition should be able to extract the data.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
neo_omegon wrote:
About re-writing subtitles: Sorry, I have never made .sub nor .srt text files. I used memory.readbyte on lua. I don’t know how to display enemy’s HP and step-counter in .sub or .srt text files.
You would need to enter the values manually as they change.
Previous Name: boct1584
Player (160)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
henke37 wrote:
Requesting encode with soft subtitles (not burned in).
My fewer subtitles have only step-counter and Bosses’ HP with memory.readbyte. They are written for Japanese audience. My streaming encodes on nicovideo have them. You can watch them on nicovideo, though they are burned. (memory.readbyte doesn’t seem to work in .srt or .sub files) After I searched how to make .srt or .sub files and tried, I started to reform subtitles. Here is the WIP. -> http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?1ntjwmygmhi I erased if statement hand by hand. I deleted step-counter because entering every value is very painful. Obviously, it’s annoying to see every dialogue. I’m going to summarize them except after movie end. And I won’t show Bosses’ HP in real-time (maybe annoying) but max-HP at the beginning of the battle. Any idea will be welcome. Or you can customize subtitles.