Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Before I even watch it, you should be aware that a normal speedrun (without rerecords or slow motion) done by TSA last year clocked in at 1:44:45. Your video needs to be much faster than that.
http://speeddemosarchive.com/lttp.html
I've heard rumors of a 90 minute finish, but I cannot confirm that.
EDIT: The movie desynced when you tried to open Zelda's cell. Up until that point, I can already tell you not to collect the lamp in your house and don't waste time picking up the jars to fight the guard.
I figure i'd just start a new thread for this, since the other thread seems to be about omni's run, and I wouldn't want to steal his thunder there.
I have no thunder to steal. ^_^
And a 90 minute finish is what I'm aiming for. I will feel rather useless if a 90 minute human run does exist and matches mine.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Because I haven't posted an update in two days (and I don't have one ready yet) here's a status update.
I'm currently hacking memory locations so I don't have to play the game through to test stuff. I have a small list of memory locations, but I need more (I pretty much have all the item's locations down, but certain things still confuse me like the bottles (but I don't need to test those really but it'd be nice to publish something on GameFAQs after I'm done))
I've have tested Dark World Gambling vs. Light World Gambling, and appartently there are no 300 rupee chests in the dark world Gambling hole, so it's usless. But the Light World Gambling hole is only ~800 frames off path total once (200 rupee profit) and and extra 700 everytime after that. (2200 frames for 600 rupees).
I haven't gotten the Dash Boots to work yet (I have the memory location of the item, but apparently you also need to enable them somehow) so I can't test the 300 rupee chests. (I tested the Gambling with a saved file I found online, but he had already snagged the chests.)
Also interesting to note, the Magic Mirror's memory location has an extra item (not unusual per se, the Flute, the Bow and the Magic Powder do this too.) it doesn't have a name and it looks like a map. I wonder what it did once upon a time.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
feitclub, it's a test run, it'll be much faster the next time around.
as for desynching, i used the "improved" snes9x that was posted here in the snes9x forum with all the default settings. the rom is the english one.... dunno what the problem is other than maybe you're using the wrong timing on the emulator?
the next time around i think i'm going to aim for less than 90 minutes, as i've come up with a lot of improvement ideas and such, and general optimization of course.
i should also mention that TSA's run is not a no-hit run. i could easily shave it down past his if i took hits here and there, but as i explained, i don't like the way it looks
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
NecroVMX wrote:
as for desynching, i used the "improved" snes9x that was posted here in the snes9x forum with all the default settings. the rom is the english one.... dunno what the problem is other than maybe you're using the wrong timing on the emulator?
What settings did you use? I have no problem watching Omni's run on the same emulator.
all the defaults really, i didn't mess around with any settings other than remapping keys. oh, i had sound turned off but i doubt that it's that, becuase i've watched it with sounds plenty of times, hell i'm watching it with sound right now. when i've sent it out to my freinds i've sent them a zip of movie, rom and emulator if it's not the emulator maybe it's the wrong rom? although i don't think there's more than one version of the us one out there, not sure.
I think you should take hits where it saves time. Avoiding hits when you shouldn't looks ugly and it just looks like you weren't creative enough, and I'll probably vote no if you make that kind of run.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Watched this all the way through. Yes, you should definitely take hits where it helps. Also, have you seen TSA's run? He uses the items really well, I'm sure some of his techniques will be useful in the tool-assisted realm. His route was also a little better, but this is partly because he doesn't need those magic bottles. Overall your run is interesting and reasonably well planned. If you go for a perfected run it would be interesting to see you have some sort of route difference from Omni, perhaps in getting the money. Good luck, and may the way of the hero lead to the triforce!
FYI, I experienced the same de-sync as Feitclub. I got it to work at least past the first dungeon by unchecking all but the first of the 5 sync-setting boxes (only "Use WIP1 timing" is checked).
(Edited to correct incorrect information)
yeah the 2nd route will not have bottles, there will also be some changes as to when i get the ice rod, i don't think i have to visit the sanctuary before going to aghanim and stuff like that.
as for taking hits....no. Sorry you think it looks ugly to avoid them, but I think it looks ugly to get hit, it's just something we're probably not gonna agree on. Since the 2nd time around i'll be using a lot more luck manipulation to get the enemies where I want them, you'll probably see waiting for enemies to pass diminished greatly, or even eliminated. the way I feel speed is important, aesthetics are even more important.
About the desynchs, would it maybe help if i posted my config file for snes9x?
It worked fine for me with boxes 1 (WIP timing) and 4 (Fake mute desync) checked. I watched up until halfway through the 3rd dungeon with no problems.
Remember, to watch movies in nitsuja's improvement versions of snes9x, you need to let the game run for 10 seconds first, otherwise they will almost always desync. I just activate turbo mode until I get to where the story text starts and start the movie then.
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I got it to work but got tired of the mistakes. Best of luck with an improved version, I highly recommend you watch the speedrun I linked to so you can learn what is and is not necessary to complete the game.
Alrighty feitclub, how many times does Necro have to say HE IS DOING A NO - HIT RUN. Seriously, It's his run, he can do whatever he wants. Everyone keeps complaining blah blah save time, blah my butt hurts. Necro's Run looks amazing considering it's his FIRST Run ever on any game. And on to end this post...EVERYONE INCLUDING feitclub, stop whining, as it is utterly useless, and rather annoying.
Still mustn't grumble
ADD ON : Why are people complaining about saving time...as far as i'm concerned a no hit run IS A PERFECT RUN, how can you improve on NOT getting hit?
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Wraith Knight wrote:
Alrighty feitclub, how many times does Necro have to say HE IS DOING A NO - HIT RUN. Seriously, It's his run, he can do whatever he wants. Everyone keeps complaining blah blah save time, blah my butt hurts. Necro's Run looks amazing considering it's his FIRST Run ever on any game. And on to end this post...EVERYONE INCLUDING feitclub, stop whining, as it is utterly useless, and rather annoying.
Still mustn't grumble
ADD ON : Why are people complaining about saving time...as far as i'm concerned a no hit run IS A PERFECT RUN, how can you improve on NOT getting hit?
Mind your tone. You're obviously new here so I'll clue you in to how things work around here.
The whole point of this forum is for constructive criticism. The fact that this movie is "no-hit" is IRRELEVANT. There is still much room for improvement, and he knows that. He admits it.
No one is whining or grumbling. We are evaluating. If you are annoyed, offer a counter-point but do not attack the evaluators.
Alrighty feitclub, how many times does Necro have to say HE IS DOING A NO - HIT RUN. Seriously, It's his run, he can do whatever he wants. Everyone keeps complaining blah blah save time, blah my butt hurts. Necro's Run looks amazing considering it's his FIRST Run ever on any game. And on to end this post...EVERYONE INCLUDING feitclub, stop whining, as it is utterly useless, and rather annoying.
Still mustn't grumble
ADD ON : Why are people complaining about saving time...as far as i'm concerned a no hit run IS A PERFECT RUN, how can you improve on NOT getting hit?
[Sigh]
I believe you should really have thought about what you were going to say before doing so. Feitclub ONLY mentioned the other run because TSA shows minimalist [save for Blue Mail? was it that?] to a tee! Due to that, it's a PERFECT tutorial to see exactly what you need and what you don't need as well as show ideas of better Rupee maximization techniques and such.
Under no circumstances did he state in ANY of his posts.. "Your No-Hit is pointless, this is how it SHOULD be done" or indicate ANYTHING of that nature.
He stated TSA's time in the first posting as that's what a time attacker should be aiming to get under... and the second time was to only reaffirm the video by TSA can aid in patterns, routes and all around general optimized ideas to work with... the very same reason Omni's run was also mentioned.
As I read that, much like most people, it was trying to be supportive and encouraging and also offering honest and decent advice and information.
Until you seemed to have misinterpreted that horrendously.
Or does constructive criticism bother you like hits aesthetically bother Necro? If so...
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Just another random gamer
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<OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Hi,
I watched it too.
Impressive were the bosses. Fast clean and (mostly) very good.
Though the whole run did look more to me like a "normal" speedrun instead of a "perfect" one.
- Weapons could be used in a much more efficient and funny way sometimes
For example at Helmasaur: Instead of hammering his mask, you can also place some bombs. I think i combination with hammer this will be faster.
For me a perfect run, needs to surprise me by doing almost impossible moves and yes with Zelda even being a "slow" game, I think you could do some spectacular use of weapons, while not being slower.
For this you have the frame advance option to time things at exact frames.
One example: You can hit the sandworms (in 2nd palace, lightworld) with the bow and with the sword. (which should be faster than just with the sword)
- Sometimes (as far as I remember) you did switch switches unnecessarily. This looks "human", while imho a time attack should seize for perfection.
And there are some more of this "human" things.
- Hm, and now I forgot the rest I wanted to write, but its too late in the night to re-watch the movie now; sorry.
So in conclusion:
Its a good evaluation movie, which can help other runs, but its not a "real" time attack in bisqwit's definition, because I think there are too many small "mistakes".
Hope to see an update from you soon.
cu
Fabian
I watched it, at a pretty high of a speed (sorry), but I think I did notice some nice uses of the hookshot in a few places I hadn't expected... maybe getting the hookshot earlier can save more time than I'd thought.
I don't mind this being a no-damage run, although I'd still rather see it with damage as there aren't very many places where taking damage is faster anyway.
But, yeah, this can be greatly improved. Better overall route would make the biggest difference. And consistently better precision at a smaller level: Whenever there's more than one way to get through a room or beat an enemy, try out all of them, even crazy ones, and go with whatever took the least number of frames (using the frame counter makes this easy). Never mind that the re-record count skyrockets when you try all possible combinations, as long as it's faster afterward. Obviously the faster ways will start becoming more obvious without trying everything, but... as it is now, almost every single room you go to I can see ways to get through it faster, even when watching at 2x or 4x speed. I understand not wanting to kill yourself perfecting every part of such a long game, especially on your first run, though, and that this is more intended as a test run.
About strategies like bombs+hammer or bow+sword... interesting, but I don't think using bombs and the hammer would be faster because the game doesn't let you equip multiple items and the menu screen takes so long to come up. (I wonder, what about using bombs+sword on the sandworms? Placing a bomb right where a sandworm will come out right as it explodes and you start attacking another sandworm with the sword simultaneously. Then again, maybe just manipulating them to come out where they can all be hit at the same time by a spin slash would be fastest... I guess there are lots of strategies to try.)
some of these comments are really good
(others, not good or contructive, saying "it has mistakes" is not constructive, i KNOW that, how about pointing them out?)
for those of you that pointed out mistakes and added possible strategies, all I gotta say is i'm dumbfounded that after all this time i can still learn things about this game (and thanks, of course)
the bombs/hammer combo on helmasuar....ehh.... it would take a bit more time I think becuase of waithing for the bombs to explode (and making sure they don't knock me silly, and further away from him) and i'd have to do a lot of switching for that...you need to have the hammer equiped in the room before anyway to get past the turtles so it would mean at lesat 2 switches to use bombs i think.
i also never knew the arrows could be used on the sandworms, the only problem will be making sure I have enough, but if it makes the battle much faster than it'll be worth it.
nitsua's comments about routes through rooms: this is actually somthing I want to work on in a major way, I plan to to insane amounts of testing and re-records to get through them as fast as possible
lastly to fabianx, about unnecessary switches, could you please point out exact instances if it's not too much trouble? I didn't think I had any becuase I tried to avoid switching unless i'd NEED the item that i was switching to, but if you found an instance where i didn't, please by all means tell me, i'd be happy to know.
I watched this entire recording and found it OK. I think a lot of unneccesary things could easily be avoided if you just watch TSA's run mentioned and linked to earlier. I think the most people that have written here assumed you already have watched it and don't really mean to just be non constructive.
Many things have already been mentioned here and all the constructive things I can say explains themselves better from TSA's run than a swede trying to explain in doubtful english language what he means. :)
Good luck! I'm looking forward to see your run.
Started version 2, up to the sanctuary. Dunno if i'll post progress here as I go along or just wait until it's done like last time
I honestly, due to its length, post it piece by piece for C&C purposes. The last thing you'd want to do is go all the way through just to find you coulda saved a minute near the beginning and that added up to even more later on..
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Just another random gamer
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<OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Posting occasionial progress as you go along is a good idea. Especially if you're trying to make this run perfect, it helps to have other people checking your work before it's all done. (Don't assume you'll be able to catch all of whatever mistakes you make yourself. And hex editing to patch up mistakes simply won't work in this game, it's too random for that.)
