Posted: 5/14/2006 5:27 AM
Post subject: Kid Kool
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krieger
Former player
Joined: 1/27/2006
Posts: 19
Location: Chile
I been working on a tas of this game. Heres a wip of the first four stages http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1152/Kid%20Kool%20wip%20v1.fcm what do you think of this game?Should I keep on working on it?
Posted: 5/14/2006 12:58 PM
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SXL
Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571
what a great surprise ! this game looks like a total rip-off of the famous Psychofox SMS game. that being said, it tells how much potential it has. very fast paced game, so the run it pretty nice ! it does not look like it has always been done as fast as possible (why some slow downs sometimes ?) but it sure is impressive enough, so I'd say, keep up working on this. I recommand watching it, especially those psychofox fans. you'll like it.
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Posted: 5/14/2006 5:16 PM
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krieger
Former player
Joined: 1/27/2006
Posts: 19
Location: Chile
Is only a test run so i didn't put much effort in details. In 1-1 the bigest slowdown was because is faster to go down and then go up again using the 2 blocks than to make one big jump because of the long pause of the movement when you pass to the "second floor" of a stage.
Posted: 5/25/2006 7:58 PM
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SXL
Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571
any updates, krieger ? I like this game, so I'd like to encourage you to keep up working on it, your wip looked like a very good first try.
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Posted: 5/26/2006 1:16 AM
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krieger
Former player
Joined: 1/27/2006
Posts: 19
Location: Chile
New wip http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1184/Kid%20Kool%20wip%20v2.fcm Is from 1-1 to 3-3 This game is becoming harder and harder to complete. World one is a little improved from the first wip. I think i will remake the first boss(it doesn´t look like it but i completed him 50 frames faster than in the first wip) The second and third world are incredible difficult because of the areas full of wind blowers things(I'm still testing faster ways to go through this damn things). This game will take me a loooot of time to be completed.
Posted: 5/26/2006 10:59 AM
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SXL
Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571
great work so far ; it truly looks as if you totally master the game, almost no slowdown. at this rate, I believe it'll be publishable material, so I'd say, keep up the good work. props dude ! ;)
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Posted: 5/26/2010 10:56 AM
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TaoTao
Experienced player (942)
Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 154
Location: Japan
From Randil's NES Kid Kool in 13:50.03 topic:
Randil wrote:
TaoTao wrote:
And, I found narimasa had uploaded his improved run (J version). He says it is in 49474 frames: http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm8222456 (apparently, fcm/fm2 is not available)
Do you know this narimasa, TaoTao? Perhaps you can ask him to upload his movie file somewhere?
I have watched some of his videos, but I don't know him personally. I commented on his video asking him to release his movie file. But he have never released any movie file, so I don't know he does so.
Randil wrote:
I'm also wondering, is there an easy (and legal, of course) way to download videos from nicovideo? If the .fm2 or .fcm isn't available, it would be easier for me if I had the nicovideo movie on my hard drive.
It seems that Craving Explorer is widely used to download nicovideo, but I haven't used it and don't know much about it. If you have installed python, nicovideo-dl or smget(made by me) are available. But anyway, you will have to get nicovideo account to use these tools. Or, you can simply watch the video via "dic.nicovideo.jp" url, and salvage cache files of your browser. With this method, you don't have to get nico account. Anyway, I believe there are no legal problem with downloading videos from nicovideo.
Randil wrote:
I have also managed to perform the wall zip in level 3-1! Here's the .fm2 of this submissions with this edited in. The zipping is optimized, I wrote a matlab program that optimized it for me. This movie is 264 frames faster than this submission so it saved quite a lot of time.
Nice! Your next run will be more cool. And, I'm surprised that you are using matlab to make TASes. It is very interesting. I hope if you write some article to utilize matlab for TASing someday.
Posted: 5/26/2010 11:10 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Regarding the matlab program. Your Y speed when you make a jump depends on your X speed when you press A. It also depends on if you hold down right or left when pressing A. And in turn, your initial Y speed will have an impact on how many frames your sprite is inside the block when you hit it with your head. The matlab program I wrote wasn't very complicated. I simply told it how the jumping physics worked in this game, and it told me what X speeds that resulted in a jump that gave me maximum time inside the block. That's mostly what I use matlab in TASing for. If the game's physics are easily predicatable, you can just write a matlab program that simulates these physics and can brute force test all (or at least extremely many) possible ways of solving something.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 5/26/2010 11:34 AM
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TaoTao
Experienced player (942)
Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 154
Location: Japan
Randil wrote:
Regarding the matlab program. Your Y speed when you make a jump depends on your X speed when you press A. It also depends on if you hold down right or left when pressing A. And in turn, your initial Y speed will have an impact on how many frames your sprite is inside the block when you hit it with your head. The matlab program I wrote wasn't very complicated. I simply told it how the jumping physics worked in this game, and it told me what X speeds that resulted in a jump that gave me maximum time inside the block. That's mostly what I use matlab in TASing for. If the game's physics are easily predicatable, you can just write a matlab program that simulates these physics and can brute force test all (or at least extremely many) possible ways of solving something.
Thanks! I have thought about simulating game physics, but I never thought about using matlab to do it. This idea may also be useful for my projects, so I will study matlab :)
Posted: 5/26/2010 7:19 PM
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Sonikkustar
Skilled player (1327)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
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Nice one Randil! Is it possible to do the zip in 3-2 too? I look foward to the final product. :)
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Posted: 5/26/2010 8:05 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Sonikkustar wrote:
Nice one Randil! Is it possible to do the zip in 3-2 too? I look foward to the final product. :)
I haven't had any luck zipping in 3-2 yet, until now - ironically, while answering this post, I decided to give it another try just to make sure, and actually managed to pull it off! I was just about to write that I didn't think it was possible, so thanks for reminding me :) Here's the .fcm showing this. The wall zip probably isn't optimal, but it still saved 45 frames, so you will see it in the next run.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 5/26/2010 8:15 PM
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Sonikkustar
Skilled player (1327)
Joined: 9/7/2007
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Location: U.S.
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Nice one....again! Its glad that you were able to zip at another place. I'll try to give you as much feedback as I can. :D
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Posted: 5/26/2010 8:30 PM
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Antoids
Joined: 8/27/2009
Posts: 159
Location: California
Doop
Posted: 5/31/2010 1:13 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I've been redoing my submitted run from scratch. I've just finished world 1, and have saved 20 frames over my last submitted run so far: *4 frames saved on 1-1 by picking up Wicky without jumping, and optimizing the section around frame 820. *4 frames saved on 1-2 by not slowing down at the beginning of the level. *12 frames saved on 1-3 by faster boss fight. Here's the .fcm. Please post any ideas/comments you might have! I have analyzed in detail how the herb moves and where I should kill the boss in order for the herb to appear at a convenient place. I can post details if anyone's interested. I have also found a way to zip through flag poles, but this resets your speed to 0, so I'm not sure it will save time anywhere. EDIT: Just finished 2-1, and boy did I save time here! I used narimasa's strategy at the beginning of the level, and managed to get up the height around frame 6450 much faster. All in all, I saved 71 frames on this level alone! I'm quite amazed, actually. Here's the .fcm. EDIT2: I don't know if anyone reads this, but anyhow: I've just started world 4 now, so I'm about half-way through the run. I'm saving a lot more time than I thought - I'm already 9.4 seconds ahead of my submitted run. Both 3-1 and 3-2 use wall zipping. World 5 will include zipping through flag poles, there are two places in this world where this will be included. I think his new run will look great! I've switched emulator to FCEUX now, so from now on all WIPs will be in .fm2 format. I hope no one minds. Here's the new WIP.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 6/3/2010 9:53 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Double posting to inform that I have now finished the run! I've worked really hard these past few days, and I think it really payed off to redo this run. Here's the .fm2. The rerecord count is off due to lots of editing and splicing. The correct rerecord count should be around 30 000. I might edit this before submitting. This new run is 1276 frames, or 21.27 seconds, faster than my previously submitted run. This submission includes zipping through walls on 3-1 and 3-2, and zipping through flag poles on 5-3. The levels on world 7 have been greatly improved, thanks to strategies by narimasa. Almost all levels have been improved, so if you liked the previous run, I suggest you take a look. I will leave this movie in this thread for a few days, for people to take a look. If you think something looks weird, or think you have an idea for improvement, please let me know. I'd like to avoid having to cancel my run a third time. Trivia: interestingly, this movie synchs on the (J) version of the game, so this run and narimasa's run are comparable.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 6/3/2010 7:20 PM
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Sonikkustar
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Posts: 1354
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Very Nice! I loved every moment of it. However, the ending can be improved slightly. Its no big deal, and its an easy fix. :) This looks very submittable to me.
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Posted: 6/3/2010 8:29 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Sonikkustar wrote:
Very Nice! I loved every moment of it. However, the ending can be improved slightly. Its no big deal, and its an easy fix. :) This looks very submittable to me.
Thanks! If you mean that I could have ended input earlier and still beat the game, I did consider this, but chose not to. I aimed to actually reach the ending sequence as fast as possible, and ending input earlier would make me reach the end of the level a few frames later. I hope this made sense. If this was not what you mean, could be please be more specific?
My own page on this site.
Posted: 6/3/2010 8:34 PM
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Sonikkustar
Skilled player (1327)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
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That is what I meant. ;) Thanks for answering. I didnt know you were aiming for reaching the credits as fast as possible. Also, Its a shame some of the tricks in the other games in this series dont seem to work here. But I dont see any other improvements in the movie.
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