At first, I was not going to submit this movie here.
The points of (J) ROM different from (U) ROM is:
At (J) ROM, there three character "Dr. Light, Roll, Auto" in the conversations after stage clear. At (U) ROM, there are only Dr. Light. (Their conversations length are different from the others, so it needs a few frames for luck manipulation.)
(J) ROM's conversations are faster than (U) ROM.
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I succeeded that wall climbing speed is faster than any% run.
In Spring Man stage, I found shortcut to get Auto's Bolt.
Using the Ghosts and Goblins music in Shade Man stage is faster 10 frames than not using.
In Shade Man stage, I shortcut the middle boss by using Rush Jet.
It can't be fast that using the Super Adapter at battle with Bass.
In Wily stage4, it is possible ignore elevator by using up + down sliding when elevator's position is most up.
Battle with Wily Capsule is optimized more than any% run.
Meh... In my opinion, if you want to know what is going on in a game, you should just play it on your own time. It's not like you will understand what is going on in a TAS anyway since dialogue is scrolling so fast.
So we're going to lose some excelent Japanese TASers just because they can't understand English?
The thing is, these TASers are never really going to be members of TASVideos. Besides submitting runs, they cannot provide much to the community; they can neither give nor receive tips for improving runs, cannot be fully informed while voting on other people's runs, and cannot create intelligible run submission text.
These people can continue submitting their runs to YouTube and/or NicoVideo (their intended audience), so it isn't like we are preventing them from TASing by turning down a run they made.
The language rule is worthless as it currently stands. I don't see why the rules for non-community members submitting runs here should be any more lax than actual members of the community. If a community member were to start making a WIP of Final Fantasy 6 using the (J) version, they presumably never would have gotten too far before being caught. If someone really wants a significant improvement over the currently published time, though, they can just make the whole run and submit it to Nicovideo and claim they didn't know this site existed when the video was made.
I guess I just think that the language rule should either be made a hard rule or done away with entirely. I have to agree that the extra entertainment provided by English text is of only mild importance, so I really wouldn't be too hurt if the rule was removed. I feel it only does the community a disservice in its current state.
If we are going to support the non-English speaking TASers putting runs here, we should change the forums so that they are provided with as much opportunity as possible to get similar help as English TASers. Perhaps create language-specific subforums for people to post in their native tongues and get help from members of the TASVideos community that speak the same language. Also, submission texts would need to be allowed in any language (and translated by the community), since I'd argue a detailed non-English submission text is significantly more helpful than an English one that is lacking in details (and run through Google Translate).
Some people need to get off of their high horses and give 100% TASes a chance instead of going with their preconceived ideals.
I assume this was directed at me, then? I always give 100% runs a chance, and don't see how not automatically accepting a 100% run means I am on a "high horse". I am just doubtful that this game warrants a separate category for it. Indeed, I'd argue that you are the one with "preconceived ideals", since you sound as if you think that all 100% runs deserve publishing.
I'm voting no because I don't think this shows that it was given enough effort at optimization, it doesn't provide enough additional entertainment over an any% run, and because it uses the "wrong" ROM version, not just because it was in Japanese. Using the (J) ROM is a mark against it, since I think the text being understandable to TASVideo's target audience is more important than the small amount of time saved. It isn't a deal breaker, though, and would gladly vote yes if it differentiated itself more from an any% run and convinced me that it was truly optimal at time of creation.
1).Usage R.J skip blues conversation.
See, I would be more likely to support a new 100% category if it used bugs like this that can't be shown in an any% run without sacrificing time. These sorts of bugs actually do provide additional entertainment.
So we're going to lose some excelent Japanese TASers just because they can't understand English?
The thing is, these TASers are never really going to be members of TASVideos.
Wrong. woabclf is a example.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ
Why is spweasel so against this run? It's a 100% run done by a Japanese person. Drop the racism, it's MM7 it's not going to be as amazing as X3 or some fast-paced game like that, but parrot14gree's videos on YouTube were amazing with what he can do.
Its parrot14green not parrot14gree. The forum just doesnt allow his name to be in fullness.
Anyways, I loved this run. Im very glad that this was submitted. This deserves a huge Yes Vote!
Now can you do the any% run too? :3
No he isn't. He understands English (for the most part), and can write mostly intelligible posts. He may not have the firmest grasp on the English language, but he can still be an asset to the community.
Drop the racism
[sarcasm]Yes, I'm racist. Obviously. Suggesting we open a subforum so that non-English speaking TASers can more easily participate with the site obviously proves that.[/sarcasm]
The main target audience for TASVideos can read English, but is unlikely to know how to read Japanese. The target audience for a Nico run can read Japanese, but probably cannot read much English. Using the (J) version on Nicovideo is the default, whereas here the default is the (U) version. There is a guideline that states that a run using the (J) version should have sufficient reason for doing so - I don't think never being intended for TASVideos is a good enough reason for breaking that guideline.
I'm also not really all that "against" this run. I would currently put it at the high end of "no", while any of the three issues being resolved would push it at least into "meh" territory. I am only continuing to post here to defend my opinions, which I don't think are entirely unreasonable.
I fully admit this run is entertaining, I just don't think that is enough for this run. This isn't YouTube or Nicovideo where entertainment is the only concern. We should also consider things like optimization and run overload.
Some things that would improve my opinion of this run:
Major:
- Major, noticeable bugs exploited that can't be during an any%
- Interesting strategies employed that cannot be used during an any%
- Significant amount of new content due to getting all items
- Proof that the route used is optimal
Minor:
- (U) ROM
- More varied wait times
I guess I should have my Rockman 7 run (as well as my Star Fox Level 1 Warpless) pulled at SDA, since the primary language in the forums is English and we should only cater to those that speak the language. Cause you know, all other languages are crap and should be abandoned immediately. And I committed the great sin (in some people's opinion) that the Japanese version of a game shouldn't be used!
P.S. I should also have my Akumajou Special - Boku Dracula-kun run unpublished from here too, cause that's in Japanese too.
I guess I should have my Rockman 7 run (as well as my Star Fox Level 1 Warpless) pulled at SDA, since the primary language in the forums is English and we should only cater to those that speak the language. Cause you know, all other languages are crap and should be abandoned immediately. And I committed the great sin (in some people's opinion) that the Japanese version of a game shouldn't be used!
I didn't realize this site was SDA. Huh, that's weird. My browser bar says I'm at "tasvideos.org". Strange mistake.
TASVideos and SDA are not comparable due to differences in how videos are made and watched. Most importantly, they do not have a game version rule as far as I know.
P.S. I should also have my Akumajou Special - Boku Dracula-kun run unpublished from here too, cause that's in Japanese too.
I never said that all Japanese runs (or any runs at all) should be removed from the site, only that every non-(U) run should have adequate reason for doing so before being accepted.
The Rules Page wrote:
Use the (U) version of a ROM unless there is a good reason not to (as an example a shortcut/trick which only works in a different version, or superior music), or the version does not exist.
The (U) version is preferable for videos here due to the target audience, but that does not mean that it other versions can't be used if the situation calls for it. A game not being available in English is a very good reason to use the Japanese ROM.
I never said that using the (J) version was a "great sin" as you put in my mouth, but rather that it usually provides sub-optimal enjoyment (and generally makes the run harder to watch or improve legally). Other languages aren't crap, they just aren't preferable for this site.
What do you mean by "run overload"?
Sorry, I guess that was more than a little vague. I'm talking about having more videos for a game than that game can feasibly support. This goes back to my original thought that this run doesn't differentiate itself from an any% enough to justify creating a new category.
Let me clarify the purpose of that rule.
1. It is there so that improvements are comparable to predecessors. The rule can be relaxed if the author clarifies exactly how much time was saved due to version change, so that the a different author could account for that in a subsequent run.
2. It is there so that most of our audience could read the text. This is obviously not a concern with Megaman 7. Moreover, reading the conversations between Megaman and dr. Light is an exercise in patience.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I guess I should have my Rockman 7 run (as well as my Star Fox Level 1 Warpless) pulled at SDA, since the primary language in the forums is English and we should only cater to those that speak the language. Cause you know, all other languages are crap and should be abandoned immediately. And I committed the great sin (in some people's opinion) that the Japanese version of a game shouldn't be used!
I didn't realize this site was SDA. Huh, that's weird. My browser bar says I'm at "tasvideos.org". Strange mistake.
TASVideos and SDA are not comparable due to differences in how videos are made and watched. Most importantly, they do not have a game version rule as far as I know.
P.S. I should also have my Akumajou Special - Boku Dracula-kun run unpublished from here too, cause that's in Japanese too.
I never said that all Japanese runs (or any runs at all) should be removed from the site, only that every non-(U) run should have adequate reason for doing so before being accepted.
The Rules Page wrote:
Use the (U) version of a ROM unless there is a good reason not to (as an example a shortcut/trick which only works in a different version, or superior music), or the version does not exist.
The (U) version is preferable for videos here due to the target audience, but that does not mean that it other versions can't be used if the situation calls for it. A game not being available in English is a very good reason to use the Japanese ROM.
I never said that using the (J) version was a "great sin" as you put in my mouth, but rather that it usually provides sub-optimal enjoyment (and generally makes the run harder to watch or improve legally). Other languages aren't crap, they just aren't preferable for this site.
Congratulations on missing the entire point of my post.
P.S. There is a US version of the game I ran here, titled Kid Dracula. Oh noes, I broketh the rules! People may not be able to read the oodles of dialogue in the game! Wait, nobody cares? Oh, ok.
Thing is, he ISN'T. The current any% uses the (J) version, so it was either approved, or nobody got this anal about the rules.
(I used it because the title sequence was noticeably shorter. If it wasn't approved, it would have been rejected according to the rules, right?)
Rofl I got a desync on the very last frame :)
I'm assuming he was supposed to switch to another weapon then immediately fire, but instead he goes into the inventory and immediately the movie ends :-/
From what I saw though, it was very nice. Yes vote.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
At this point, the (J) vs. (U) debate is entirely a non-issue for me. This is Mega Man, after all. There is more ignorable dialogue in a 100% run (because of Blues / Protoman primarily), but I don't really think it's worth a big debate, especially not one with racial accusations. Since this run has been compared to the Any% anyway, using (J) seems appropriate.
Thank you, sparky, for updating the submission comments with extra comparisons to the Any% run! I now am very confident in the technical ability of this run, even if a couple little glitches were omitted (like parrot14green has shown). It's nice to also see how this run does better than the Any% run in some places.
The main question, I think, concerning publication of this movie is: is it worth having a separate run for 100%? spweasel makes some good points that a 100% run of this game offers comparatively little extra action for getting all the items.
However, I think there's enough that's unique in this run to warrant an extra run. First of all, the boss order needs to be different to efficiently get all the items (Freeze Man first to get Rush Search, then Turbo Man first to get Blues and to get Beat in Slash Man). This lets us see different tactics against some of the bosses, which I found to be pretty entertaining. Second, the little bit of extra action is fairly good: getting Auto's Bolt was awesome, and there was decent entertainment while waiting for Rush to dig stuff up.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Joined: 11/20/2004
Posts: 236
Location: United States
o_o Wow. What's with all the hostility from spweasel? Ah well... Another time, another place, perhaps.
It's been a while since I've done one of these. So let's boogie!
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Intro Stage: Flawless.
Freezeman Stage: The stage was flawless! But the fight with Freezeman himself was kind of iffy... Looked like you got hit a couple times more than you should have. Unless that was done for entertainment purposes or to make Dr. Right talk, of course. There wasn't any noticable delay between damage cycles on Freezeman, so maybe it's okay...
Burstman Stage: A missed Rush Coil after the mid-boss (or was that unintentional due to not swtiching weapons?), but otherwise flawless. (I get the feeling I'm going to be using that word a lot here. XD)
Cloudman Stage: I really liked that firing/sliding in time with the music part, though I would have liked to have seen at least one cloud lift get frozen... The Cloudman battle was pretty weird at the end there, too! But in a good way.
Junkman Stage: Flawless stage run (with an intentional death so you could grab the Rush Jet as well as the letter circuit). The Junkman battle was really quick and interesting as well! (I didn't know you could cancel his weakness animation!)
Robot Museum: Perfect battle with Mash.
Turboman Stage: Turboman before Slashman? Seems to have worked quite well, actually! In any case, perfect execution of the stage and perfect execution of Turboman as well!
Two fun facts about this particular stage:
- I bet most people didn't even know Rockman had sliding injured frames of animation. :3
- I didn't know you could knock Turboman out of his suction attach with the Rock Buster. o_o
Slashman Stage: Flawless run as far as I can tell.
Springman Stage: Ah, my favorite stage and boss...both utterly humiliated. XD The Rush Jet glitching was beautiful! And the fight with Springman was very entertaining. Heh.
Count Chokula Stage: Beautiful manipulation on Blues. I don't think he ever knew what hit him! The stage run was also quite good. (Those morphed Gillum Knights sure do have a lot of health!) Gospel seemingly growling at you because you shot him was pretty funny! And lastly, you, sir, are an expert with the Wild Coil.
*cue 7-second lab ransack*
Wily Stage 1: Well, I think you thoroughly embarrassed Forte there. Way to go! XD The stage was pretty well done as well! I didn't know before now that a fully-charged Noise Crush can slide Gutsman-G's rocks as well as a Slash Claw, though. That's pretty nifty!
Wily Stage 2: You know, I never noticed before now that Gospel Boost Forte has half the damage delay of Forte by himself. Weird... Absolutely bizarre boss fight with Gameriser, too. The stage itself? Completely hammered.
Wily Stage 3: I knew right from the word "go" that HannyaNED² was severely screwed, since I've done that sliding-charge Noise Crush thing myself, but that mid-air slide thing was a new one on me! And again, stage demolished in record time.
Wily Stage 4: Not much to say here. The Robot Masters get destroyed and Rockman saves the day in a magnificently fast manner! The battle with Wily was the smoothest I've ever seen, as well.
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Overall? I'm voting Yes on this one. I don't care if it replaces the existing Mega Man VII entry or becomes a unique "100%" entry. Even with its supposed flaws, this is totally worth putting up with the other movies.
Sidenote: As mentioned, it's a shame you didn't do Shademan first, or at least before Turboman and Springman, but it's understandable as to why not. Still...nothing says "PWNED" like a one-hit KO. XD
A missed Rush Coil after the mid-boss (or was that unintentional due to not swtiching weapons?)
Correct in that it's unintentional, because you can't L/R switch to Rush Coil, and he needs it later, so there's an appearance w/o it being used.
Turbo has to be done before Shade in a 100% run, since you need to visit Blues in the following order to get the Blues Shield: Cloud, Turbo, Shade. If you do it in the wrong order, he won't appear.
