This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2635: Hoandjzj's SNES Super Metroid - Angry Fire Chozo (Hack) "101%" in 35:53.87

I would strongly recommend, when submitting a hack run, stating how the hack is different from the original game and what makes a TAS of it stand out. There's tons of good-quality hacks of Super Metroid out there; why should a run of this be published, instead of, say, Redesign, or Cliffhanger, or Eris? (For what it's worth, Angry Fire Chozo's main feature is that when you do a standing jump, you can rise indefinitely and fall slowly. Personally I mostly just found it to really slow the game down. I also ended up beating the hack without clearing a good half of the map, since it wasn't really required. I haven't watched this TAS, but I'd say the three games I listed have much better chances of getting a TAS published here than Angry Fire Chozo does).

As an SM hacker myself, I'm always glad to see these being done. I will note right off the bat, however, that this desyncs for me shortly after boost ball is acquired (about 1/5th of the way through the run by frame count). Whether or not it's publishing material, however, is a totally different discussion. Like Derakon said, breaking down the differences is really important if you're going to submit this. And, like Derakon said, I'm fairly certain that there are other hacks more likely to get published than this one if runs were done (not to say they're a shoe-in, either). If anyone wants to see what this hack looks like, a quick YouTube search of "Angry Fire Chozo" gave me this along with some others. (Note the TAS submitted is not the same as the one in this link!) I do feel this is one of the better SM hacks out there, but that's not really as nice a compliment as it sounds (most hacks are terrible for any game, and SM is no exception). I have played and beaten AFC, and in the world of SM hacks it's notable, but it is not necessarily an entertaining TAS choice, simply because most of the sequence breaks and general play is not going to make sense to anyone who has not played it. This is not a major issue in games (I can enjoy TASes of games I've not played), but in hacks, it becomes a more pressing problem because it is harder to differentiate between native gameplay and modified gameplay if you are not familiar with the game. When you can watch a TAS of a hack but not understand what's impressive about it, you're possibly looking at a poor choice for publication. Again, I am glad to see that hacks are being TASed... I'd like to see more. But I do not think that this particular hack is a great choice for submission. I would agree with Derakon that there are better choices out there (Eris, Eris, Eris!) that viewers can enjoy without playing through on their own.

I have some familiarity with Super Metroid, but not with any of the hacks associated with it. As I have stated before, I think a good run of a good hack should push the game engine to its limits and demonstrate good content that can not easily be shown within the confines of the original game. There are clearly differences in the basic nature of gameplay here (the quirk of jumping that Derakon mentioned is one), but the hack as a whole does not demonstrate much of interest that can't be done with one of the runs of the original game (and we do have a lot of Super Metroid content already). When I see things such as graphical glitches (broken countdown timer, anyone?) and obvious slight reworks of areas in the original game, I am skeptical if not downright disappointed in what I am watching. I vote No.

yeah, those "oh, I know that room"-moments are usually signs of a poor hack. I didn't bother searching and installing the hack, but if the any% on youtube is similar, that's be a no-vote from me. * "Here, go collect 1384798 energy tanks! We'll bother with enemies later!" :/ * Not actually voting since I haven't watched this run

I am not not wise to the Super Metroid hacks, but I played just about every official release of all the other games. Handheld and console. After watching this, it wasn't quite as entertaining as I thought it might be. Not do to the author, but more so the actual layout of the game itself. Poor level design, and repetitive power ups clumped together made mince meat out of one of my favorite classics. Add all the terrible glitches and I was more saddened to see this game turned inside out. Perhaps if the hack was more creative. I used to find Doom 2 map hacks quite entertaining, and often times more original that the official game. With that said, I vote no.

While the hack isn't the worst one out there, I don't really care for it. I mean, giving you 6 E-Tanks AND the Varia within about 3 minutes of the start of the game? No exactly impressive. Personally, I'd like to see somebody beat the snot out of Saturn's time on Super Metroid Impossible. THAT is a hack to watch. There's one other hack I liked that could be done, but the name escapes me. The Justin Bailey mod hack was nice, but that only changed the way Samus looked, but nothing about the game itself.

Personally, I'd like to see somebody beat the snot out of Saturn's time on Super Metroid Impossible. THAT is a hack to watch.

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/362875125/Cpadolf-Super%20Metroid%20Possible.smv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elYE0VdGiME http://www.archive.org/details/SMI_TAS_49_Cpadolf I think it's a pretty nice run (though outdated in many regards), but it's much to similar to the original to have any place published on this site. Anyway. I really don't think a 101% run was a good idea for this hack. It's quite small in size so a lot of the items are just crammed together, and the actions is constantly interrupted by the pickup message. A any% run would probably be a lot more interesting. However, even then I doubt this is a very good hack for a TAS. The Boostball and keeping your running speed after jumps where nice, but the messed up gravity is very annoying, and the level design didn't seem too good, not for a TAS at least (and made even worse from having to run of to pick up a random upgrade every two seconds). You definitely did a good job with what you had, but I don't think this hack is worthy to for publication.

=.=! I should run another hack! Also, a quick view of my run here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oafgq8hTYgU

Personally I think you should go for a different game, or at the very least, attempt to improve the existing Super Metroid TASes. Hacks tend to be given more of a critical eye than licensed games, generally with good reason (most of them are not worth bothering with) and the ability to get some variety in your gameplay is the sign of a good TASer. Just my coupla coins though.

Thanks for the video. Anybody see the "Justin Bailey" Samus stuffed in that hack? That's about the only thing that was clever about it, IMO. It feels more like "Super Collectoid" then "Super Metroid".

Personally I think you should go for a different game, or at the very least, attempt to improve the existing Super Metroid TASes. Hacks tend to be given more of a critical eye than licensed games, generally with good reason (most of them are not worth bothering with) and the ability to get some variety in your gameplay is the sign of a good TASer.

Improving the existing Super Metroid TASes at this point would require a massive amount of effort. They are the most heavily-polished runs on this site*. Earlier I named several hacks that I think would stand a decent chance of getting published here. I know Redesign already has a TAS made by Saturn (encodes of which are posted piecemeal to the relevant thread in the SNES forum). As I recall, Cliffhanger and Eris both had TASes in the making on the m2k2 forums, though I stopped checking on those forums awhile back so I don't know what their statuses are. Another hack you might try is any% Dependence; its near-total lack of linearity would allow for some interesting route decisions. I'm not certain how much different people who aren't Super Metroid fans would see it as being from the original game, though. All of the rooms are original, but the environments as a whole are still pretty similar to the base game. * I originally said "among the most heavily-polished runs on this site", but no, I think they in fact are the most heavily-polished ones. I can't think of any runs that compare in terms of game complexity, run length, and degree of polish.

While hack runs are definitely criticized more deeply than regular games (and with good reason), they do get published from time to time if both gameplay and hack are up to par. So by all means, try running a new one--never hurts to try! And, like I said before, you should really do an optimized run of Eris. There are also several other good SM hacks looming on the horizon, though most of the really good ones have been announced and "in the works" for years now, so it may be a while yet before we get there.

voted meh the run is good, but the hack isn't

I would strongly recommend, when submitting a hack run, stating how the hack is different from the original game and what makes a TAS of it stand out. There's tons of good-quality hacks of Super Metroid out there; why should a run of this be published, instead of, say, Redesign, or Cliffhanger, or Eris?

Well, for starters, there's a run of this, and not one of those other 3. I'm not entirely sure why publishing this hack would necessarily exclude other hacks. That said, I think the hack really makes this run suffer. The run itself is good, but the hack just doesn't seem all that great. On a related note, I loved the TAS you did of Golden Dawn.

There actually is a TAS of Redesign, though Saturn didn't submit it. There's also a TAS of Cliffhanger, though last I heard it's incomplete. Kriole also made an unoptimized TAS of Eris (mostly forgoing extensive route planning, as I understand it). These should at least let you make an informed decision about the relative quality of the different hacks under discussion. I believe these three to be the best of the available Super Metroid hacks (my personal ranking would be Eris > Cliffhanger > Redesign, though they're all enjoyable).

Yes, Derakon, I'm aware of all of that. I was just pointing out there's no reason publishing one hack would exclude another.

How's about Super Metriod X?! It's an upgrade of Dependence :D

om, nom, nom... crunchy!

I only watched the first part on YouTube so far (and some of your other TASes), but (having played the hack) I must say the route planning and optimization looks rather good. On a technical level, this run was definitely publishable. Unfortunately, even though I enjoyed what I saw, the rest of the audience here didn't like this hack. If you want to get a run published here, you should listen to the suggestions the other users here have given.

There actually is a TAS of Redesign, though Saturn didn't submit it.

It hasn't been submitted because it isn't done yet. He still has the remaining 20 bajillion minutes of the escape sequence to do.

I watch all over, really good, I am not Super Metroid experts do not see where the bad [Weapon configuration is too close to?] run is good, yes vote

Good luck Hoandjzj! I am sorry I didn't get to watch any of this movie until recently, but I think you play very well. You might want to create a thread in the forums, or you can join a thread which already exists. (A quick search shows that there's a Super Metroid Redesign thread, for instance.)

The author finally got around to uploading both parts of the movie to YouTube (Part 1 - Part 2), and I must say it's very impressive. It's definitely a publishable run in terms of technical quality and as a TAS of a hack.