Joined: 5/11/2009
Posts: 17
Location: United States
I used to play this game quite a bit, awesome to see someone TASing it. Even if it is only to show the routes, at least to me it is very entertaining and doesn't look terribly unoptimized, although admittedly I wasn't looking that hard :P Hope you'll at least finish all the levels so we'll have something to watch until a run is released. Very nice work and good luck with Arabian Flights and the other levels ><
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
Mine Blowing is finished. Part 1 and part 2 are available on Youtube. Despite Mine Blowing being less than 10 minutes long, I needed to split it because of all of the overworld gameplay and to be able to upload Arabian Flights (which will most likely be another 0:08 or longer) in one video. The final time is 0:08, and the route seems quite solid. As a bonus, I also included the overworld section up to entering Arabian Flights. Some notes from this section: -I was able to prevent myself from falling down the waterfall after the mushroom cave, letting me do the top part of the level without taking the long way around. -The first room of the mine cart ride area is skipped by a well-placed double jump onto an incoming mine cart and to the next platform. -I use a damage boost to get the ticket from the raised alcove. It would make more sense to jump down for it at the end of the level, but when you load a different part of the level the alcove seals again. -In the rolling rocks room, I have to stop to prevent myself from hitting a rock and missing a token. It looks ugly, but it's necessary. -Save warping after getting the last ticket saves ten seconds. However, between learning Freeze Ray and Grapple from Tinker near Clowney Island, you need to move away from him and reengage him. When learning these two moves next to Mine Blowing, he gives them both to you at once. (You still need to sit through both texts, though.) -I grab the purple token on the warp cloud even though the screen has already gone black, so no sound plays and the counter doesn't update. I do get it, however, and the counter returns to normal upon grabbing another token. Now onto Arabian Flights, which will be more difficult to plan. The execution should be much easier, though.
Kaylee
She/Her
Editor, Active player (434)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
I had an idea to modify the route for Paint Misbehavin. Instead of collecting all of the things to open the door, jump up the door with a box and glitch in while collecting the ticket.
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
You can get over the door, but it requires a tricky box jump so I didn't do it. Also, you need to hit the loading point and return for the ticket, since there seems to be a solid wall around the ticket.
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
Arabian Flights is done. A Youtube video is now available. The final time is, again, 0:08. Notes from this level (I'll try to keep these spoiler-free from now on for what it's worth): -The Fun with Magnets strategy is based on the shortcut posted by twelvetwentyone a while back. -I got a VERY nice fan setup at the end of the machine. I was able to pass the first three with little wait at all due to the fact that the Freeze Ray prevents you from being blown for a short while (not enough to go straight through full-blast fans, unfortunately.) The second set was also very nice. Even if I had gotten there a few seconds earlier and grabbed the token immediately, I would have been blown off after Rocket does his backflip dance thing. Not too much more to say as of right now. Also, I recommend making a savestate after exiting Arabian Flights for future WIPs, as I'm sure that not many people would like to watch 45 minutes of gameplay they've already seen.
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
I believe a triple post is warranted, as Pyramid Scheme is done. And, very much to my surprise, the final time is 0:08. (Seriously, I thought it would be 0:12 at the very least.) Oddly, the level clocks in at over 11 minutes real time, due apparently to a large number of transitions/time-stopping cutscenes. Part 1 and part 2 are available on Youtube. A few notes from my favorite level in this game: Day Section -I touch the very edge of the grapple pad, which has the same effect as pausing (a text skip) -I skip the bridge falling cutscene by jumping over it without touching it. -I believe my tile puzzle solution (8 flips) is optimal as far as number of flips go. I couldn't find a faster way, although admittedly I didn't try very hard. -The four screws area is one of two tedious areas in this level. The other is the "Restful to ruined and back again" (Ticket H) area. The screws area route is quite linear, and I eliminated most of the detours and backtracking involved in collecting the machine parts. -The picture code never changes, so I can input it without first going to night and coming back. When the mouth opens, Rocket can clip through the top of the statue's head, which is why I chose an odd flipping order. Night Section -When landing in lava there is a small time frame where you can jump before being hit and unable to jump for a short period. -I shave off around 45-50 seconds of sitting on a floating rock for "Don't let a little lava stand in your way" (Ticket G) with two well-timed jumps. -I couldn't find a better way to collect the silver token above the statue's nose, although it may be possible to grab it while making your way up to the high platform with the purple token. -"Restful to ruined and back again" (Ticket H) is the second tedious area in this level, as it normally requires a second trip up to collect all of the tokens, however, using a few tricks, I collect everything in one trip and get all the extras on the way back down. The cornerstone of this strategy is to clear out one side of the terraces in the night section. I wasn't able to get enough height to grab the necessary token, but I remembered how using the Freeze Ray in Arabian Flights made me stay put when the fans were blowing. I tried using it on the launch platform and got MUCH more height than without it. The rest of the strategy is relatively straightforward. -I must "unlock" the day/night switch near the code puzzle in order to use it to return to night after the ruined circle area. -Jumping against a slope to gain more height is central to the Circle strategy. it skips two instances of waiting for the circle to move and lets me collect all of the night collectibles before switching to day. Please leave feedback on this level and/or advice for Food Fright and the looming JoJo's world. I feel like I'm talking to myself in this thread most of the time.
Kaylee
She/Her
Editor, Active player (434)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
I watch all of these, and I am always entertained :D I feel like this is submittable quality, but it's up to you when you finish it. Anyways, keep up with the route planning. I really like what you have done with all of the small time savers, especially on Pyramid Scheme. Bottom line, you aren't talking to yourself :P
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
I was thinking about submitting this when it was complete, but it would be my first submission and I'm not sure about protocol, or how the higher-ups feel about runs like this where optimization is not complete or high-level. Thanks for all the support Kyman, and for the things you've contributed (I remember you had some videos, but unfortunately they are no longer available.)
Joined: 8/10/2007
Posts: 14
Location: Louisiana
I've also been watching all these. I agree with Kyman that it certainly seems like submittable quality. I know I would vote Yes if you did. About Pyramid Scheme: it's amazing how quickly this level can be beaten considering how long I remember it taking. I loved the lava part where you skipped all the moving platforms. I'm really looking forward to the final product.
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
The run is done. Three guesses as to what Food Fright's final time was. I was also able to fit everything up to Jojo's World into 11 minutes, so it all fits neatly into one Youtube video. A second is available of Jojo's World. Notes: -Food Fright is primarily comprised of three sections that involve a LOT of climbing to move between. The first section is the food section. I saw no noticeable difference between doing the two halves in a different order, so I went with the marshmallow area first for a slightly better Machine part placement between the two. -In the jumping marshmallows area, the Freeze Ray saves the day again as it gives me enough height to reach the ticket from the ground. -In between the two sections I use the grapple to get to the normally out-of-reach ticket, skipping about 10 seconds of waiting. -The second section is the machine section. It is rather uneventful, save for the handle ticket that I use an unconventional method for to get the tokens early. There was also an awkwardly placed line of tokens on the ground during the ring challenge that requires some ugly jumping, but it works. -The third section is where this level becomes much less linear, as there are about a half dozen tokens scattered at the tops of climbing puzzles. I skip one puzzle and break as many as possible. One of the more significant tricks in this area is landing on the retracted tongues and jumping again, saving a second of waiting per jump. -Inside the monster, I start taking damage. I need to get down to 4 health for a death warp. I take the necessary damage and get out with only a few pauses. -The other 3 damage is taken around the monster, the final ticket is collected, and I hit the electrified fin thing to warp out, saving about 30 seconds. At the time of grabbing the final ticket, the level has an in-game time of 0:07, but I couldn't death warp fast enough to sub 0:08, unfortunately. -The three-room puzzle was quite interesting. The first room was fairly standard, and I got a good setup for the second. However, this gives me a HORRIBLE setup for room three, so I had to get a little...creative. I'll let you see how it went. Jojo's World is quite linear, so there isn't much to be said. -I skip painting myself, saving a large amount of time painting and traveling the long path up. -I use a few box jumps to skip the magnets. -I move around the spider's first leg instead of blowing it up, then jump up to its body. This skips blowing up its legs. -The flaming ball of death is rather anticlimactic. I try to jump around a lot but there's not much in the way of entertainment that you can do when you're confined to a rolling ball. The final dialogue plays and the run ends with a time of 1:14:52.80.
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
Two and a half months go by and nobody has posted but me. But with a good reason, I guess: the run was done and there wasn't much less to talk about. However, in this period I have been working on and off optimizing the route and gameplay and will once again be presenting regular, level-by-level WIPS starting with Clowney Island. I put quite a bit of detail into the Youtube video's description, so I'll paste it here: A few notes detailing the changes thus far. -3 frames were saved in the beginning of the game due to the fact that pressing A on the first possible frame when loading will cause you to jump in midair. This allows me to move closer to the ticket. Jumping for one frame from a stop also saves a frame or more on certain occasions (for example, moving in the opposite direction that you are facing.) This is used quite often. -A box jump is used to reach the top of the midway, which is quite a bit faster than taking the normal handles route. -The Chick-Tac-Toe segment was the first bit of serious luck manipulation, which was made exponentially harder by making three things happening at once necessary while getting the fastest throws from the chicken. At once, I needed to 1) have the chicken make a move, 2) hit the chicken with a ball) and 3) make my move with a separate ball. With a one-frame window to complete all three of these actions, this small segment received a large amount of attention, and as a result, a large amount of rerecords. The resulting pattern also resembles the ":|" face, which my friend uses quite often and I originally wanted to manipulate the pattern as a shoutout to him. I found that this pattern was actually the fastest after the fact, so I guess it was for the best after all. -Screws 2 and 3 were handled simultaneously instead of separately and I took a slightly different route to insert screw 4 that saved about 100 frames. -Using the garbage can, I was able to gain the slight boost I needed to obtain the second coaster ticket during the cutscene. This ticket was also made slightly faster due to an oddity during coaster construction causing it to build at 4 times normal speed. Unfortunately, even with frame advance I overshot one of the targets, so I had to cut the speed off halfway through. Also, I used one less high track in favor of a much faster low track compared to the testrun, a rather embarrassing oversight. -I take an extra frame getting the floating box ticket in order to set up a save/quit. Rather than collecting the health upgrade now, I forgo it until the rings challenge, allowing me to skip the text and celebration cutscene, saving about 100 frames. Using this technique, it is faster to collect the two gold tokens during the race. -A save/quit brings me to Slam, where I use a camera angle change at Tinker. Jumping doesn't save or lose time, so I opted not to do it this time. -I did a lot of testing at the beginning of the rings challenge to see whether minimal or maximum turning would be fastest. They turned out to take the same time because of the awkward angle minimal turning gave, so I kept maximum turning as it, to me, looked cooler. -Collecting the health upgrade with the Dune Dog looks slow, but it is indeed faster. Any more acceleration would put me too far out to grab the health upgrade, so I had to slow down for the turn. -I usually try to stay objective as much as possible in these comments, but the improved launch up to the boardwalk to start the race is 14 different kinds of awesome, in my opinion of course. -I take a small shortcut during the race through the original hiding place of the Dune Dog. the handling here is awkward as the small hills can horribly disrupt your turning and I need to take care not to stray too far away, canceling the race. -At the last garbage can before the machine, I can get a larger boost from the slam, but the angle required is so bad that this smaller boost works out a bit better. -The dinosaur is the first major platforming area of the run, but it doesn't really matter how fast I am at all until the very top at the barrels. The elevator platform and moving handles can not be done faster than my original run, aside from the slightly different strategy that I employed on the handles, so I do a bit of freerunning. At the top, my barrel setup is better because despite the backwards boost, I get less unnecessary height and am able to return to the platform much faster. A few hops, a slide, and a save/quit are all it takes to wrap up the much-improved Clowney Island. -I forgo the floating platform tokens in the overworld area, opting to take them during the next trip. This is one of several overworld route changes I will take between the first three stages that I expect to save, in total, 10-15 seconds.
Kaylee
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Editor, Active player (434)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
I still think it's possible to box jump all the way up to the dinosaur's head, I recall coming really close one time. But I will watch the WIP, and I know I'll damn enjoy it. :)
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
I'm not too good at getting long box jumps like that, and I doubt it would save time due to having to collect tokens. It's an interesting idea, it just seems unfeasible and impractical. If, however, the much more likely box jump over the Paint Misbehavin' gate is faster, I know who I'll be begging to do it for me : )
Joined: 2/15/2009
Posts: 329
Excited for the real run azorae. Don't listen to the silence. Count me in as a supporter. Don't get burned out! You do have people interested in seeing this.
Working on: Legend of Legaia, Vagrant Story
Joined: 5/28/2007
Posts: 45
I loved your first version of the TAS, Azorae. So great that you're going back and optimising it. I love the game and will be watching this thread with excitement. Keep it up! :) Cheers, Franklint
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
Thanks for all the support so far. The only reason that Clowney Island took over a month is a two-week vacation that I took in mid-June. I wasn't able to TAS at all while I was out of town as I didn't have the .m64 on my laptop :/. Paint Misbehavin' will begin as soon as I do some calculations involving Kyman's door skip. That will inevitably make the run a lot harder, so I would like to know the method you use to box jump, Kyman. I saw a video of yours a while ago where you got vertical speed much more quickly than I did in the testrun in places such as the guard skip and the magnet challenge in Jojo's World. The speed was similar to that of the jump to the midway in the new run, which I achieved by autofiring B and R on alternate frames. Any help would be appreciated as there may be some serious box jumping in my future.
Kaylee
She/Her
Editor, Active player (434)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
Alright, Azorae, could you PM me your MSN/AIM or whatever you have? It would be a lot easier to IM you my ideas and the box jumping stuff.
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
Paint Misbehavin' is finally done. It took a long time, partly because of school and other things, and partly because I had a LOT of new ideas for route changes, bringing it down from a high 0:08 to a surprising (to me anyway) 0:07. There are a lot of changes, so I suggest watching the run before reading the notes. A youtube video is available here. I am currently 2 minutes and 5 seconds ahead of the testrun. 22 seconds of this is due to pushing part of the overworld back until later, which will ultimately save 10-12 seconds. Factoring this together with the 45 seconds saved on the first part, approximate savings in this portion of the run are 1 minute and 10 seconds. Some notes on what made this possible: -I planned the first portion of the route (including the overworld portion from Clowney Island to Paint Misbehavin') so that I would have exactly enough tokens for double jump without having to go to the lower level. I can return there later, when it is more 'on the way'. -The first part of the level is almost exactly the same route wise, with merely a changed timing for collecting the two tokens in the corner, saving a small amount of time. -The second part also is similar to the testrun. the only additions were two object boosts to replace the box jumps and a different order in the guard's area including painting Rocket's lower half blue :) -Once I reach the river, everything changes. Barely any of the original route is left, save for the aqueducts and some small portions. I start by heading in the opposite direction, grabbing a sheep, and opening the gate. But, rather than collecting the ticket I just climb back to the surface. Using the celebration-skipping power of the Finbot, I grab the token (unfortunately getting hung on a wall, but this is unavoidable due to how deep the ticket is in the alcove) and make my way to the statues. I grab the ball after a MUCH shorter waiting period than the testrun and get a speed boost by jamming myself between the statue's throwing arm and the ground and releasing the ball at just the right frame. Then I use another Object boost on a sheep to get up to the gold token first, rather than then button, which allows me to fall back to the ground during the cutscene. -The next area is similar to the testrun, but I found that taking damage cancels the celebration cutscene if you get hit before you touch the ground. I use this to get both a celebration skip and a damage boost -I take the Finbot to the machine area and collect the tokens without jumping out. This saves time and allows me to get more distance after hitting the machine trigger. Then, I get the ticket behind the machine before starting the rings, giving me an altogether shorter travel distance. -Rather than swimming directly into the aqueducts, I swerve the Finbot around to pick up two tokens I had forgone before. I use a double jump boosted by the angled wall to get just enough height to jump into the aqueducts, where a new Finbot is waiting for me. -The aqueducts section is improved by using the whirlpools for speed boosts, staying closer to the surface during the 90 degree turn section to more easily grab the gold token, and using a better route for the platforming section. Hope you enjoy this.
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
After over a year of zero progress and a sleepless night working on this, Mine Blowing is done. I have yet to calculate the time saved, but the final time for the level is yet another 0:07. Notes, as always: -I skip the recharger text here rather than in the final area as it takes the same amount of time and allows me to take a more direct path to the floating platforms. -I once again put off going for "Get to the Bottom of things" until later -I found that it was actually faster to use the mushrooms in the cave rather than to use just jumping -A sequence break after exiting the cave area allows me to get to the top level of Mine Blowing without going through the main room. This streamlines the level's route quite a bit. -The first of several damage boosts occurs here after getting the ticket. I use them a few times around this level but they don't save too much time, maybe 1-3 frames. -The mine cart section is dependent entirely on the mine carts that move at fixed intervals, so I play around a little while waiting. I tried to finish the winding platform one cycle quicker, but I couldn't reach the cart. -It saves a small amount of time to fall into the void at the end and respawn near the clown. He didn't cooperate very well, though, so I had to go a bit out of my way. -In the gems room, I skip the first bomb and do a bit of juggling with gems. This actually gave me the idea to do juggling with bombs, which was incredibly difficult. That's part of the reason the run was delayed so long; I was frustrated trying to juggle bombs. In the end, I found out a way to complete the parts in which I would juggle bombs more quickly anyway, so I finally resumed progress after over a year's hiatus. -I grab two tokens through the bombable walls (these, unfortunately, are the only two things for which this works; it doesn't work with the ticket, machine part, or the last token.) This was one of the ways I cut bomb juggling. Another was the damage boost off of an enemy, which I had actually found was faster before stopping the run. When I came back a year later I was scared for a minute because I thought I had a desync and lost all the work from the past year. -Luck manipulation in the rolling rocks room was weird. It seems that the pattern that the rocks fall depends on factors decided before you enter the room and can be changed by dropping a bomb and picking up another one. This was too slow, however, so I went back to the basement room and delayed myself by a few frames and found a setup that worked perfectly. -Two more damage boosts in here, which are usually impossible because the damage is meant to make you drop the bombs. I canceled this by jumping at the right frame. -The machine went much better than I had expected. Everything lined up nearly perfectly due to faster execution than the previous run and new tricks, such as climbing the side of the corkscrew. -From the machine, it's a hop, skip, and a jump to the final token and ticket and I save/quit. Youtube encode coming as soon as I remember how to do it. It's been a while. :|
Editor, Player (44)
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1029
I loved the first version of this TAS, so I'm going to watch the WIP encodes so far again. Glad to see you trying to improve it!
Editor, Experienced player (860)
Joined: 8/12/2008
Posts: 845
Location: Québec, Canada
Keep up the good work, Azorae!
Player (99)
Joined: 10/10/2010
Posts: 13
Good luck finishing the run, it looks really nice so far!
Player (98)
Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
Finally got off campus internet (where youtube uploading doesn't work properly for whatever reason) and finally got the Youtube encode up for those who need it. Enjoy. Any suggestions for Arabian Flights improvements would be fantastic, as it's such an open level and routing will take some doing.
Kaylee
She/Her
Editor, Active player (434)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
Experienced player (608)
Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706
The fact that your vehicle was a miniature weiner mobile made this even more comical.
Current Project: - Mario Kart 64