I've been wondering something since change on Hack Rules (no longer needed to request approval before submission.)
How do people feel about allowing English Translation Patched-games?
Here, for example, is a run we are losing because of this rule.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u66VD2G4MQ
I find his comment quite interesting.
I'd like to note, that my vested interest is Shining Force: Final Conflict (GG), as well as Shining Force 3, Scenarios 2 & 3 (Saturn). All 3 have finished English Translations.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 10/28/2007
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I would favour the acceptance of English translations, possibly in the same vein as hacks or demonstrations if nothing else.
Also, don't forget that we have at least one published run which can be argued to fit into this category.
EDIT: I would like to add that this should be allowed only where there isn't a (U) ROM; we would still prefer the official game where possible.
The historical argument (even throwing away "It's not official") is that language patches tend to be works in progress. Such works may be hard to find the older, sync-stable version at a later time and the original authors may not approve of us hosting an outdated version of their work $X months after the publication.
I'm personally for it, but there's hurdles.
This TAS's input file has the ROM checksum of a fan translation, although it syncs fine with the normal version. adelikat let it slip by because of that.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
DeHackEd: well, even just limiting the rule to "only stable patches" or "only patches we have permission to host locally" would be a step up from the old ruleset.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
I'd love to see translation patches given the green light, provided they are 'finished' patches.
For example, Mother 3 or Shining Force: Final Conflict (As mentioned above).
The historical argument (even throwing away "It's not official") is that language patches tend to be works in progress. Such works may be hard to find the older, sync-stable version at a later time and the original authors may not approve of us hosting an outdated version of their work $X months after the publication.
Maybe if we set some ground rules (as always, individual special exceptions may be granted):
1) The translation has to be well-known and published on a well-known site (such as dejap).
2) The translation must have been marked as "100% complete" by the authors.
3) It must have been so for at least a year, without further updates (iow. it has been a completely stable translation for at least a year, without further fixes).
I'm not saying it must be exactly like this. Just throwing some ideas.
the original authors may not approve of us hosting an outdated version of their work $X months after the publication.
I'll vote for ignoring that fact. After all, we are sometimes creating TASes with earlier revisions of a game even when we know a later revision exists, and we know the game authors would possibly like us to use the latest revision, for the earlier revisions usually have known bugs, typos and the like.
Given the logic behind specifically preferring that runs be completed using an English ROM I can't imagine why we'd at this point demand that all those interesting unreleased games people might be curious about should be run in a foreign language. I mean, as it is, my Japanese is far too crappy to really enjoy the Final Fantasy V run.
Make a rule similar to hacks: "The translation should be good, notable, excepted, stable, etc." Although, I think translated games out to be put on the normal pages instead of in the hacks and demonstration section. I'd say that fan translations have much broader appeal than hacks because that's what most (English speakers) are going to be playing for these games in the first place.
So what do we do if someone wants to obsolete a run using the translation patch, by using a ROM in the original language? Do translation patches automatically become the "preferred" versions of games as soon as the patches reach the quality level needed to be accepted by the site?
Say a stable release of a translation patch for FF5 is created (hell, one might already exist for all I know). Would future runs be required to use that patch? What if we had a published run on the site using a translation patch? Would all future runs of the game be required to use the same patch?
Basically what I'm getting at is, does a stable translation patch have the same stature as an official release of the game, as far as what the preferred version of a game to use?
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
So what do we do if someone wants to obsolete a run using the translation patch, by using a ROM in the original language? Do translation patches automatically become the "preferred" versions of games as soon as the patches reach the quality level needed to be accepted by the site?
Honestly? I'd say so. At least for long, story-driven RPGs with no sequence breaks. That, after all, is when having a translation patch actually matters. A translation (whether fan-made or official) ought to be used in any case that it would significantly improve the run's entertainment value. After all, what version do you think visitors to this site are going to have played? It takes a special kind of crazy to finish an RPG in a language they don't know.
Say a stable release of a translation patch for FF5 is created (hell, one might already exist for all I know). Would future runs be required to use that patch? What if we had a published run on the site using a translation patch? Would all future runs of the game be required to use the same patch?
Final Fantasy V was one of the first to have a stable translation patch released actually ;) Come to think of it though, FFV has since been translated and ported to the PS and Gameboy Advance. The latter might actually be preferable (Can a game be obsoleted by a version of itself for a different console?). To answer the question though, I think that with patches like these translation choice ought to be as much under scrutiny as any hack or demonstration category; and if the case can be made that one translation is "better" (For reasons other than mere text speed) then a runner ought to switch to that one. Or just use common sense or something. Frankly though, I don't know of any games with multiple fan translations. Generally translators move on to new material once there's already a stable release out.
So what do we do if someone wants to obsolete a run using the translation patch, by using a ROM in the original language? Do translation patches automatically become the "preferred" versions of games as soon as the patches reach the quality level needed to be accepted by the site?
Say a stable release of a translation patch for FF5 is created (hell, one might already exist for all I know). Would future runs be required to use that patch? What if we had a published run on the site using a translation patch? Would all future runs of the game be required to use the same patch?
Basically what I'm getting at is, does a stable translation patch have the same stature as an official release of the game, as far as what the preferred version of a game to use?
I don't know how much of an issue this will really be, as these patches are 99% for RPGs.
If you look at the RPG category (btw, wth are a bunch of DS Castlevania games doing with an RPG tag?), the vast majority of standard RPGs have never had a previous movie, especially a movie by a different author. I figure, for any game that requires a translation patch, the chance of two authors battling over a publication is pretty dang unlikely.
Additionally, if the problem does arise, I'm sure that, if game-play is proven to be faster, no one will care translation-patch or not, and will be left to the author's discretion.
Finally, part of the reason for this question/request is that it is extremely difficult to TAS an RPG in a foreign language.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
(btw, wth are a bunch of DS Castlevania games doing with an RPG tag?)
I would assume this is because later-generation Castlevania games include what is generally called "RPG elements", a.k.a. character statistics that can be improved by leveling up, equippable items, hitpoints and mana, and so on.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
