Active player (258)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 61
Who the hell knows anymore. As the Scrooge of April Fools' Day, I'm not even offering my opinion on this latest development until after the fact. All I'll say is that Nach demonstrated that the guys at the top are aware of the contradiction between their actions and the well-established facts regarding timing and console randomness. If the whole thing was a prank, then yes, I am pissed, but I can understand that you had a very good intention, maybe even a necessary one. Just keep in mind though, it is extremely unfair to "leak news" of your prank to build up anticipation, before April 1. Not even Google pulls that. If this thread alone is a prank, then I'll have to publicly say I have lost respect for the admins' logical thinking processes.
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Nach wrote:
FODA wrote:
If the only issue is the console's randomness, I don't see why TASes can't be replicated on them. It would only take some attempts, but it can be done, which doesn't invalidate TASes.
If you can't see why, you haven't read what I wrote clearly, or you're having issues grasping the technicalness of it. It can not be done on consoles for most games. Some attempts would be more like several billion if you're lucky. Move to a different environment, and watch that never sync up.
If it is possible then it is possible. I never said it would take 2 attempts only.
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I pretty much saw through it with X-Ray vision. I'm extremely hard to fool at this time of the year. However, I was preparing, in case this was an ill-timed announcement, to shoot holes in the argument like a drive by with a tommy gun. It was going to be win-win for me either way. So yeah. Happy Shenanigans Day!
Editor
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
I stirred up SDA over this mess. I want to see this site continue. I try and watch what's new. I always enjoy the runs, even the not so good ones.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Joined: 2/10/2009
Posts: 13
I'll come out from the depths of lurker haven to tell you this: You crazy mofo's scared the hell out of me. To me I think it's alot about watching the runs progress, watching new tricks being discovered, watching the rival speedrunners go at it, all kinds of frame-wars, and the competition of it all. You make a TAS because you not only want to be the best human at something, you want the be the best there could possibly ever be. No matter how many months or rerecords it takes. It's inspiring to see people work so hard towards a goal that is pretty arbitrary in the large picture of things, but that is important to them; Entertaining, and being the best. As for money, adscendmedia.com / cpalead.com offer what is known as a "content blocker". It's a little piece of code you can place over an embedded video, to make the users fill out a survey before they watch the video, which in term earns the website owner a small sum of cash. While I can see not wanting to force members to fill them out, you could embed both versions with and without, it would be like a tiny donation that does not cost the user anything but time which I am sure most of us would not mind giving some away. Just a thought, either way, keep on keeping on.
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
I would like to genuinely apologize to those of you who were psychologically and/or emotionally hurt by this event. It was never mine, nor any one else's, intent to cause grief through our words, and I had hoped that we threw out enough over-the-top melodrama and red flags to indicate that it wasn't true. However, just because it is not true that we're shutting down the site doesn't mean that this was just a joke. It brought up some important talking points regarding the future, and sometimes stirring up the wasp's nest is the best way to get people's attention. In the same vein, this was not meant to be a money-making venture either, or at least not one motivated by fear. Since this site transferred ownership, donations have been needed to keep us going, and thanks to the generosity of several members, we're approaching our first year anniversary of being 'out on our own'. Donations are an on-going necessity, and I believe that the past day or two have shown that many, many people would be affected by having the site cease to exist. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: If you truly like something, try to find ways within your means to support it, through donations, time, effort and input. Within the past two days we've seen a spike of new members who have registered just to plead with us to not shut down the site. This give me a great amount of hope for the future, but it also makes me rather sad too. So many people have been enjoying what we've produced, but have not bothered to register until confronted with the possibility that TASvideos.org may be finite and mortal. Please, for everyone who has recently registered to show their support for keeping this site going, or for anyone who has been lurking but has never gotten around to registering, contribute! I don't care how much or in what capacity. If you know a lot about a game and see that it doesn't have a tricks page with documentation, we'd be grateful for your information. If you think movie descriptions could be improved, write it up and we'll add it. This site thrives on the input of its users, and with the changes that have been made over the past year we're in need of more help to maintain the content than ever before. So please, whatever you feel you can pitch in, please do. And please know that we will never threaten to shut down the site in order to raise donations, but continue to be aware that the admins can't do it on their own, as much as we may want to. On a slightly related note, a topic that has been brought up several times in this and the other thread is the lack of games to TAS because "all the good ones are gone", or that TASvideos is always reduced down to a frame-war. So I'd like to address those issues as well. We have a huge amount of new consoles that are now TASable, and a ridiculous amount of games for some of the 'newer old' consoles which remain untapped (looking at you, GBA). I realize that some people only want to work on a certain system, and for the oldest consoles we have, we may actually be running out of content. But as I've said on my homepage for no less than two years, if someone produces a run of a game which does not have a published movie, and that people find entertaining, it has a very good shot at getting published, and I'm likely to be much less restrictive with my judgment when it comes to technical ability. Please leave mystDS out of this, it's a separate issue entirely New, entertaining content is always cut a bit more slack, and I personally never expect someone to try to make a frame-perfect run of a new game (some people like to aim for that, but that's their prerogative, not mine). If you're trying to improve a game that has several previous versions, yeah, it had better be very, very tight. But at least 60-70% of the content on this site could be improved by a surprisingly big margin, and because of conversations that have been brought up recently, we now have rules/guidelines in place to deal with improvements that aren't "perfect". Reasonable effort will have a reasonable chance at publication. I think I've covered everything that has come to mind after reading through the half dozen pages of conversation, but if you ever have questions regarding anything based on the site, please ask me. Thank you everyone for your vocal support of our site, and I hope that this year can continue to see TASvideos grow for the better.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Post subject: Re: Thoughts
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 3
mmbossman wrote:
[...] and I believe that the past day or two have shown that many, many people would be affected by having the site cease to exist. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: If you truly like something, try to find ways within your means to support it, through donations, time, effort and input. Within the past two days we've seen a spike of new members who have registered just to plead with us to not shut down the site. This give me a great amount of hope for the future, but it also makes me rather sad too. So many people have been enjoying what we've produced, but have not bothered to register until confronted with the possibility that TASvideos.org may be finite and mortal. [...]
I already mentioned before, but thats a problem of every community. most people just watch, and dont do anything. This also applies for my in the case of TAS'. My spare time is bound by creating a game, other hobbys and some time doing nothing or enjoining your work. I hope that this boost of registration will help getting more feedback in the future, but you cant really expect it. Today, most time you consume and dont create, thats how it works, sadly...
ccgx.de Dune: War of the Spice - Indie RTS-Games Rockstorm-Games - per aspera ad astra
Former player
Joined: 8/15/2004
Posts: 422
Location: Minnesota
Great April Fool's joke, IMO. I can't believe so many people (even veteran TASers) fell for it. For the record, my post was not serious.
Joined: 8/27/2009
Posts: 159
Location: California
Yeah, I knew what was going down, and my post wasn't serious either. You raise a lot of interesting points here, OP, and I really wish there was something I could do for this site. For right now, I help host the torrents of runs, because that's easiest. I think I've improved a few runs with ideas based on things other users have found, but maybe not. I would love to actually start TASing games (I use a lot of TAS tricks in normal(/emulated) play after discovering this site, and I apply the TAS mindset to all the games I play now. Can't tell you how often I think "How would a TAS overcome this, and can I do that in realtime?"), yet it seems like all of them already are in progress by those far more skilled than I. I guess what I'm asking is: I host files I give feedback and ideas, both in-thread and on your YouTube videos I tell my friends about this site, but they only take a casual interest, watching the video and moving on I can't seem to find any games that have not already been TAS'd or are not already BEING TAS'd by people better than I. What can I do to further help this site thrive?
Joined: 2/20/2010
Posts: 209
Location: I'm in space
I was just about to begin angrily protesting the shut down of this site when it occurred to me that this happens to be the first of April. Going to such lengths for the purpose of evoking passionate responses from those who love the site seems kind of manipulative, and I don't much like knowing that I've been emotionally manipulated. That said, BRILLIANT!! The whole April Fool's trick was ingenious and I'm really glad such clever persons are part of the TASing community.
Oh, play it cool. Play it cool. Here come the space cops.
Post subject: Puppetmaster
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
goldfish wrote:
Going to such lengths for the purpose of evoking passionate responses from those who love the site seems kind of manipulative, and I don't much like knowing that I've been emotionally manipulated.
At least it took the most evil and cunning puppetmaster of them all. If it was any other day, you wouldn't even know your strings were being pulled.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Experienced player (607)
Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706
Antoids wrote:
I can't seem to find any games that have not already been TAS'd or are not already BEING TAS'd by people better than I.
Will somebody PLEASE TAS Donkey Kong Land (1) for the Game Boy? It's the only portable one that is not based entirely on a SNES version... and it kicks butt!
Current Project: - Mario Kart 64
Post subject: The truth revealed
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
It's time to let you in on a closely guarded secret that I have been hiding for many years. I am the most manipulative person on the entire planet. I can get anyone to do anything and have them think it was their own idea. The creation of TASVideos? My idea! But as time went on, I decided to make my presence more known. I gave Bisqwit his new mission (you cannot imagine the dreams he's been having lately), and I announced myself as the new leader of TASVideos. The other staff such as adelikat, mmbossman, Sgrunt, Aktan, Flygon, and others have been my puppets or aliases this entire time. All the recent events over the past two days? Don't blame or give credit to anyone else for it, I'm behind it all. I tricked them all into posting what they did. I take credit for everything that has gone on here good or bad, smart or stupid since the site began, and until its very near closure. The rebuttal posted here several hours ago was an April Fools Prank. This site is really closing, and I'm doing it all purely to flex my power over you. You now know of my scheme, and it is time to say goodbye.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Post subject: Re: The truth revealed
Skilled player (1651)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Nach wrote:
You now know of my scheme, and it is time to say goodbye.
Finally! Jeez, I thought that guy would never leave. Time to break out the Keg and Party Hats!
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3570)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Antoids wrote:
I host files I give feedback and ideas, both in-thread and on your YouTube videos
These are actually very needed activities that are typically in short supply. So don't downplay their significance. Our seeds are often bone dry, and our submissions and especially wips on the forums are undercommented on. I appreciate the contributions. As far as other things you could do, how about do some editing? We need help documenting what goes on here, both in terms of games and emulators, or even TAS techniques.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4042
I actually thought the issue brought up a reverse problem for me: Should TASers be allowed to start with whatever uninitialized memory, entrophy, etc they want? It would still be a run possible on the actual console, just as likely as a run with any other starting memory and entrophy (however vanishingly likely that is; hmm, instead of making static TASes perhaps we need to make smart movie files that adjust their input slightly whenever the output of the console isn't exactly what's expected. ;) )
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 6
Long time lurker, and first time poster. I will say, this whole incident had me skeptical considering it's timing. Although, it was so well prepared, it was easy to see why people were becoming so frightened. As for me, I was waiting until today to see if it truly was just a joke. Unlike some, I didn't take it so personally, and understand the nature of why you did it. Sometimes hard work and dedication is unappreciated. Not to mention unsupported. I have absolutely no clue how to TAS, encode, or do any of the other things that are required to complete these works of art. I just enjoy seeing some of my childhood memories completed in ways that no human, or very few, are capable of. The entertainment I get from watching these movies is unmatched, and appreciated. If anything, this has made me want to contribute to the development of them, even if it can only be in the form of a donation. I want to say thank you, instead of angrily bashing you all, for what you did. While some will always be negative, and quick to judge, I saw it as something that can only benefit the growth of this site and community and ultimately more TAS. There's nothing quite like logging on daily, and once in awhile seeing that amazing new submission of a run you have been longing to see. There is no comparing these to human speedruns, nor do I think that was their intent. It is to try to produce the perfect conditions, however unlikely, gameplay and completion of said games while creating a huge amount of entertainment in the process. Regardless if the conditions are theoretically able to be reproduced on a console due to a small technicality. Thanks again for all the work you guys do to entertain the countless lurkers and people who don't even contribute, but often have very harsh opinions. Now for just two questions. Where do I send my contributions and when is that Ghostbusters run coming out for the Genesis?!
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Nach wrote:
While it is a nice pipe dream thinking that perhaps our runs can be considered theoretically possible on a real system, that's hardly what we're about. We're about entertainment.
I must be as confused (or more) as FODA on this point, but are you saying it's absolutely impossible for a TAS to be replicated on an actual console? EDIT: Since the other topic is locked, I'd like to partially withdraw this award nomination. While this was very well planned, I don't believe it lasted nearly long enough.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Post subject: Re: The truth revealed
Joined: 2/20/2010
Posts: 209
Location: I'm in space
Nach wrote:
The rebuttal posted here several hours ago was an April Fools Prank. This site is really closing, and I'm doing it all purely to flex my power over you.
That's great! Can I buy the domain? I need a place to host videos for my Towel Assistance Society.
Oh, play it cool. Play it cool. Here come the space cops.
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
So, first of all: That was really the first April fool that shocked me. Second, I'm sorry for probably only registering to simply answer this thread ;) Well, actually I've been watching runs for a long time here now. I've got at least four reasons to come back here as long as this site still lives. 1. I grew up with the NES and SNES and N64, so this stuff really means something to me. (Actually I fear I'm quiet the retro-nerd, I don't care too much about newer games). 2. On the other hand: I always loved the extreme. It's quiet insane to see some things working I earlier thought, "that's possible, but you'd have to play PERFECT" 3. Next, I love glitches. Bugs, (actually, cheats no that much). The weirdest things happen if a programmer didn't think about stuff being possible to happen. (Reverse Bottle Adventure, weird scrolling in Rockman games, even small things like "walking backwards is faster than forward o.0") I love it.. 4. And last but not least, I started to study informatics. Earlier, when I lurked around in the forums, I didn't understand anything about "what? Memory Watch? Overflow? Starting from 0 after 255??" or similar things. Now, I'm fascinated. I still don't understand everything, but this forum actually deepened my knowledge in that stuff. Something else: Way back, I tried making a Goof & Troop TAS and finished the first level. Seeing, how much effort it cost me, and actually how bad it was compared to the published run, made me smile, lean back and enjoy watching even more. ps: I'm still waiting for the SoM TAS, I literally did everything with this game back then... Let everyone except the girl die all the time (resulting in the Sprite and Guy staying on low level), don't use any magic, playing with 2 other friends.. Good times :) Go on, please ^^
Limne
Any
Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153
I actually thought the issue brought up a reverse problem for me: Should TASers be allowed to start with whatever uninitialized memory, entrophy, etc they want? It would still be a run possible on the actual console, just as likely as a run with any other starting memory and entrophy (however vanishingly likely that is; hmm, instead of making static TASes perhaps we need to make smart movie files that adjust their input slightly whenever the output of the console isn't exactly what's expected. ;) )
Maybe once we have quantum super computers capable of simulating the exact molecular configuration of game consoles, their circuitry, and the crystals used to time their various cycles, but by that point video game consoles will be made of nano-machines you inject directly into your bloodstream and have fuse themselves to your neurons and people will be wanting to TAS those instead.
ps: I'm still waiting for the SoM TAS, I literally did everything with this game back then... Let everyone except the girl die all the time (resulting in the Sprite and Guy staying on low level), don't use any magic, playing with 2 other friends.. Good times :)
There's currently nobody working on the SoM TAS but I'm currently putting together a resource page so that everyone can share in the discoveries made over the past six years (and hopefully finally get us a run of the last truly awesome SNES game, thought at this point I'm not holding my breath).
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I'm glad the site and community aren't going anywhere. I visit here so many times a day that this site and forum are a big part of my life. I always look forward to seeing new TASes, even on games that have already been done. In terms of speed vs. entertainment, I say it's not impossible to have both. Great job on the April Fools Joke. It scared the hell out of me yesterday and ruined my night.
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 84
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Glad the joke's over, I about darn near had a heart attack last night. I totally bought right into it too -_- I was all like, First they take away Danny Johnson's GH Videos (the kid who holds 6 WRs for GH), then tasvideos goes poof... Let's just say I nearly had the cops on me for disturbin the peace. Please don't do another stunt like this, I dunno how much more my heart can take.
Joined: 8/27/2009
Posts: 159
Location: California
adelikat wrote:
Antoids wrote:
I host files I give feedback and ideas, both in-thread and on your YouTube videos
These are actually very needed activities that are typically in short supply. So don't downplay their significance. Our seeds are often bone dry, and our submissions and especially wips on the forums are undercommented on. I appreciate the contributions. As far as other things you could do, how about do some editing? We need help documenting what goes on here, both in terms of games and emulators, or even TAS techniques.
I'd be able to do a better job if I figured out that damn python script, but it looks like the bittorrent site is suffering from April Fool's Day shenanigans as well, so I can't get the source at the moment >_>
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 4
Location: Welgaea, the divine city
I'll step in myself as yet another person registering just now for this. Admittedly, I didn't buy this for a second. Everyone has worked too hard, too long to just drop everything like that. Reactions were generally over the top, and considering the very nature of TASing is to turn a game inside-out, felt it was hard to believe this fact about consoles had gone unnoticed for so long. Regardless, the points here are well-made. I've been lurking for ages and use this site constantly. Whenever I'm working on something I'll kick up a TAS to watch while I'm doing it. If I want to learn about games I've never heard of I browse through the game lists. Without this site I never would have learned about Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman Zero, one of the most fun games I've played. If I can't find a good emulator, I come here and see what the choice is for TASing, knowing it'll at least have functioning savestates. I may be able to play through a particular Sega CD game soon thanks to this site. I'm an avid speedrunner of Super Metroid, though I've never done anything competition-worthy. Thanks to this forum I found an emulator that could record movies without desyncing after two minutes. Heck, without this site I wouldn't have known about keypress movies at all. The run will never be submitted to anything considering even at 50% speed and with savestates I'm still behind the unassisted world record by 7 minutes, but I wouldn't have even gotten that far on my own. It seems every time I watch the TAS I see a new way to get through a room, or some weird technique I never would have thought of. Every time I watch it I find something new that makes me think, mouth gaping, "Well fuck me." Being the owner of a forum myself, I understand the trouble all of you go through, and how thankless a job it is. I want to say you have my thanks for doing this and putting up with everything. Without what you've done my life by now would be a great deal different from what it turned out to be. Sadly, I'm just a penniless college student, so I can't offer help in the way of funding. I did actually have intention of registering at some point, but this drew me out earlier. The reason I was going to is due to another way I may be able to help. I have been trying to work on a full TAS for the longest time. Sadly, my files and such were lost. I'm currently in the process of re-planning my route, so with any luck I'll be able to submit something and actually contribute to the site in the foreseeable future.