Posted: 3/13/2010 10:40 PM
Post subject: Is there a PSX emulator without extra input delay?
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
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Joined: 3/13/2004
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Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Sorry, this isn't really a TAS-related question, but I was just curious... Does one exist? To be specific, PCSX-RR with all the default plugins seems to add 2 extra frames of delay (same results with the keyboard and my arcade stick w/ USB converter), and sadly that's the best I've had any emulator perform thus far. I'd like to stream/record a single-segment run of Street Fighter EX's Expert Mode, but you just can't afford to have any delay with some of the combos there! Thanks in advance. =)
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 3/14/2010 11:24 PM
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errror1
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Joined: 12/16/2008
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why do you think the input delay is in the emulator and the game?
Posted: 3/15/2010 12:47 AM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
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Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
errror1 wrote:
why do you think the input delay is in the emulator and the game?
It's extra delay that shouldn't be in the game. For example, Ryu's medium kick takes 9 frames to hit after pressing the button, but: 1. Published data says it should only take 7 frames. 2. The animation of the move is, in fact, 7 frames. Hence my point that the emulator is adding 2 extra frames of delay. That is actually quite a bit for fighting games, which is why I'm trying to find some sort of alternative. No luck yet, though. =/
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 3/15/2010 1:58 AM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Are you sure the published data you referred to is measuring from time of input to time of hit, and not time of starting the animation to time of hit? Perhaps the game inherently has a two-frame delay between input and action. In that case the emulator would be behaving properly. I could see that being desirable to e.g. make it easier to perform actions that require the player to hit up without jumping.
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Posted: 3/16/2010 1:35 AM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
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Joined: 3/13/2004
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Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Trust me, the guide measures frames from button press to impact. Most Japanese fighting-game guides include frame data, and that's how it's always done. Your idea re: jumping is actually a good one, but fighting games use a different solution - make characters with 360 motions (i.e. Zangief) take longer to jump than the others. A lot of emulators have extra delay - to see what I mean, compare any game in MAME and NeoFBA. PCSX2 is infamous for it, so I'm not surprised that the PS1 counterpart also has it. Here is an interesting if poorly-translated piece from the author of Ootake on this subject. He's taken a lot of care to make sure his emulator is lag-free, and I wish others would follow suit.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 3/16/2010 2:56 AM
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arukAdo
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Lag is not forcably perfectly emulated in pcsx, it can be flawed, also im not sure if you was speaking simply of the frame rate ? does your game is realy 60fps ? if its 30fps then its normal thats there is a "delay" of 2 frames, 1/2 frames are ignoring inputs in that case (that is possible if its a 3D engine for exemple). As for "you cant afford", remember in real time any of this is impossible, only a handfull peoples can bash a pad at 50hz, what i mean overall is the program anyway not design for you to have lightning reflex, i doubt youll loose a "lot" of time by having 1 frame delay on your actions. What matter i guess is lag is not a emulator side effect overall, many games lag on real hardware and when they do, likely input are ignored. Generaly, lag can be manipulated, like luck.
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Posted: 3/16/2010 8:27 AM
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errror1
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I asked some combo makers I know and they where convinced that frame data wouldn't reflect input delay if it existed and that input delay is not unique to emulators and is probably in arcades too. Still you might try mame
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:55 PM
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errror1
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looks like nki tested input lag on all the versions of super turbo http://zachd.com/nki/NKI-Testing.CCC2.For.Input.Lag.rar I don't think you can really say the psx version shouldn't have any input lag until you try this test on the console
Posted: 3/16/2010 11:44 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
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Joined: 3/13/2004
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Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
OK, here's what I mean: I pause the emulator, hold down+MK, and press \ to frame advance. If the emulation was arcade-perfect in this regard, I would only need to press \ once more to see the animation begin; this is how EX and most other games are (this specific part of NKI's test has been disputed). Instead, I have to press it 3 more times. I'm saying this because I actually own this game on PSX and feel the extra delay when doing combos. Even experienced fighting game players wouldn't notice 1 frame of delay very quickly, but 2 frames...yeah, we definitely will. Anyway, I was kinda hoping people would discuss the Ootake author's article, as this seems to be much bigger issue in emulation than people realize...
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 3/17/2010 12:19 AM
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BadPotato
Joined: 1/26/2009
Posts: 558
Location: Canada - Québec
I made a little play around and I think that I understand what you mean(I even made a little demo... but there only little point to show this). I feel like you should discuss about this issue to the pcsxr project, since this isn't a problem with the TAS/non-TAS plugins... Altought, if the emulator is 'too slow' about "instant action animation", do you think that the emulator is 'too quick' about some other part?