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Posted: 1/27/2010 7:29 PM
Post subject: Congo's Caper Improve TAS
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ZENEO9
Joined: 2/12/2009
Posts: 27
So i'm thinking about starting Congo's Caper TAS again. I know that my first TAS was horrible, but this one will be 100% better.But i'm not here to brag,just want to ask is it will be accepted ?
"The life is like you create it"
Posted: 1/27/2010 8:09 PM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
If I had a crystal ball that could tell the future, I'd be a much richer man. You'll have to just submit it and see what the viewer feedback is, but before that you should post work in progress files for people to review. That way you may get important feedback before you're done with the whole thing. EDIT: Given this quote from your previous submission: "This seems like it's a good game to run (even with a couple boring autoscrollers, like that ship level). However, this run is really unoptimized" I can only say again: Post WIPs. It's hard to make a precise movie the first few times through. Get feedback while you're working on it.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 1/28/2010 12:50 PM
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ZENEO9
Joined: 2/12/2009
Posts: 27
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/51193477/CongosCaperWIP.smv Here is the first WIP, this improve saves about 60-70 frames O.o We are good to go and i think sub- 25:00 min is possible. After this TAS i'm thinking about warp run, sub 12:00.
"The life is like you create it"
Posted: 1/28/2010 3:17 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
Found a neat trick that will save some time over the course of the run, it saved about a second in the first level. Don't know if this is optimal or not though, I didn't spend to much time on it. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/851261104/Congo.smv
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 1/28/2010 5:55 PM
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ZENEO9
Joined: 2/12/2009
Posts: 27
Filip,you are the man O.o If i can, i will use it for my TAS
"The life is like you create it"
Posted: 1/29/2010 6:57 AM
(Edited: 1/29/2010 4:01 PM)
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DLH112
Joined: 2/22/2006
Posts: 43
I don't know if its faster, but you can pretty much just roll through the first two levels... (recorded non TAS just to demonstrate) http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1853951803/Congo%27s%20Caper%20%28U%29.smv This also helps in the ghost levels.
Posted: 1/29/2010 10:32 AM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
Yeah, that's lots faster if optimized.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 11/22/2012 2:05 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Eye Of The Beholder drew my attention to this game, and I have to thank him, the game is delicious to work with. The roll trick as demonstrated by DLH112 is really fast, but the sliding needed to start it is too much slow. I accidentally started a roll after a jump on stage 2, it's a lot faster than sliding, but I can't reproduce it anywhere else. Even worse, I improved the beginning of stage 2, but then I can't do the roll-after-jump-trick again :( Here's my first attempt with the jump and roll trick: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/2722430814483834
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 11/22/2012 5:20 PM
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Omnigamer
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
You always seem to work on the games that I want to run Dooty! I haven't looked through the WIPs beyond the initial rejected one, but this was probably going to be one of the next games I was going to route for real-time. I'll let you know if I find anything special. Also, something that seems to be lesser known is that you can float when in the Super form by just rapidly pressing jump (sparkles at your feet if you do it right). I did a whole playthrough without realizing it, and to my knowledge it's not stated anywhere in-game or otherwise.
Posted: 11/22/2012 6:13 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
That's a nice coincidence, indeed! I'm just at the beginning, so any info, memory address or even a walkthrough would help me alot. edit: why do I need a walkthrough? well, ZENEO9 said that there are warps in this game, but I don't know where they are... edit2; found this; http://www.gamesurge.com/playstation/strategy/psx_man/Congos_caper.shtml
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 11/22/2012 10:45 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
I'm not an expert, but for some tests i did, the rolling after jump trick seems to be connected with the screen position. If you continue from the first rolling trick, you can do the trick in the next spot with no problem, as long as you don't turn back. You can stop, run or whatever you want, and as long as you don't turn back you can do the trick even in realtime. Just hold down after the boy start spinning. As far as i could notice, turning back only makes the screen to change it's position a bit.
Posted: 11/23/2012 1:40 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
You're more than right, thank you! When I improved the beginning of the second stage, I avoided that first roll as it is slower than just run. I redid the second stage, I need to collect 2 Rubies to transform Congo into Super Congo on stage 3, by the by, stage 3 is a lot, and I mean A LOT faster with the hover trick mentioned by Omnigamer. I'm now fighting the first boss and I'll post a new wip as soon as I beat his ass :) edit: about those Warps, this is what the manual says, it's in the previous link; The Slot Machine: Three Crowns = Warp into another stage - a Lucky Zone! Well, or I don't know what that means or I'm completely out of luck with that slot machine... Every chance I have to spin the slot machine I try for about 100 frames and the only thing I win is extra lives :( Is there another way to warp to other stages or I'll have to be extremely lucky on the slot machine? Well, as you can see I know very little about this game, so for now it will be a "warpless" run, but if you know how to warp, and if it will make the run more entertaining, please let me know. last edit: searching for "Congo's Caper Warps" on Google led me to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_0K0afY7A The guy uses a warp to pass one of the water stages, so, looks like the slot machine can't warp me to other stages after all... In any case, I never played this game before, so if you know something that can improve this run, even if that means restarting the run, don't hesitate to tell me, thanks in advance. last edit, for real this time; just to make sure I understood this warp thing; the warps are "NEXT" signs hidden on some stages and all I have to do is look for them, right? Well, that seems to make more sense :)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 11/25/2012 7:34 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
So, how is the run going? Is there any wip?
Posted: 11/26/2012 4:18 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Yes, there is, but the 120 star run of Super Mario 64 was not letting me work anymore :) http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/2813229867929931 There's a new trick; duck under water. And something that I think will force a redo or at least, it's a possible improvement; You don't need to roll before the jump-and-roll trick, slide for a few frames is enough.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 11/26/2012 5:58 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
I'll watch that later. Regarding the jump and roll trick, maybe it's possible to use it even without the sliding, as long as you manage to set the screen in the right position. It would make it easier for you if you had memory adresses for screen posiyion or the caracters position.
Posted: 11/26/2012 6:39 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
I have some memory addresses in this Lua script; http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/2815437733265150 But for the trick to work, you must slide for at least one frame in some stages. edit: the game seems to store this information, but I don't have that address yet.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 11/26/2012 9:52 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Nice wip, dood! Keep up the great work!
Posted: 11/27/2012 1:26 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Thanks, mate! I'm working on a stage that can be completed ~50 frames faster by taking damage. So, what? Well, it's another thing to go to the possible improvements; forgoes time saving damage. edit: I'm about to start the Spooky Stages, after that, there are just the Final Stages to do and it will be submitted.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 11/30/2012 1:58 AM
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Omnigamer
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
The registers for the slots are at 7E0043, 44, and 45. Unfortunately, the "bonus stage" it sends you to does not actually allow you to skip the current stage, so it's a waste. It will let you off at a checkpoint further ahead though, depending on when you get it. The time spent is only worth it if you're skipping an autoscroller though, and I can't think of any levels where that would apply. Also, the rolling trick works because the game does not unset the flag at 7E0033 (set to 0x80 for wallclimbing, 0 otherwise) after you start a roll. You don't even have to get into the full roll animation, just have to start it for at least one frame. After that, the "climb walls" flag is set until you stop moving; everything else is fair game. The reason why it works the way it does is because the high jump also puts you into the same animation as the ground roll, so all the special properties still apply.
Posted: 11/30/2012 3:30 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Omnigamer wrote:
You don't even have to get into the full roll animation, just have to start it for at least one frame. After that, the "climb walls" flag is set until you stop moving; everything else is fair game.
I don't know how to explain, or why it happened, but in one of the Last Stages, after a lot of frustrated attempts to cross the lava without stopping, I managed to "roll backwards"! Also, looks like hovering resets the climb wall flag, but hovering for one frame close to a slope puts you in roll animation, invaluable in the Spooky Stages. I'll check the tricks with your memory addresses to see if I can find other places to use the "backward-roll", thanks a lot for them, I'll also try to implement it in the Lua script. edit: the lava is in the Spooky Stages too, sorry. anyway, I'm doing the final fight now and it may be submitted tomorow.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 11/30/2012 9:18 PM
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Omnigamer
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
Did the backwards roll make it into the final movie or is it lost? Sounds interesting; I wonder if it's something that would be usable elsewhere. I plan to start work on real-time strats this weekend. I'll let you know if I find anything interesting, or any more of the alternate exits. EDIT: I did some investigating today and I think I found your "roll backwards" bug. I also found a way to quick roll, so you can roll immediately when you reach a slope. I'm working on ironing out the specifics right now, but I saw that you can occasionally force yourself to immediately start a roll by turning around with run and then going into a roll again. I'll see if I can make a very short movie demonstrating it after I find out. EDIT2: Figured it out, input-wise at least. There's still some uncertainty to it, probably having to do with either some subpixels or Congo's position relative to the slope. In any case, in order to instant roll just press down for one frame followed by holding R and one frame of down-forward, and then back to holding down. If the positioning is right, you will instantly start into a roll at full speed. For the "backwards" rolling, just do the same thing except go to down-back, and don't hold R. Congo will slide the wrong direction before slowing, stopping, and then rolling the other direction. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/2915636136225330
Posted: 12/1/2012 4:16 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Great, I'll take a look into your file as soon as I get home tonight, thanks. About the backward rolling, I'm sorry, but I fail to explain even the most simple things, here's the movie file with the trick; http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/2924200336494839 It's in the lava stage of the Spooky World, I jump into a wall and then roll to the opposite direction, not backwards as I first thought. But, I did the backward roll in some autoscroller satges just for fun :) edit: managed to watch your tricks already and that redo is not a possibility anymore but a necessity, I promise to work a little slower this time :)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/3/2012 4:06 AM
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Omnigamer
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
In stage 1-5 (inside the dino) I found out by accident that if you put the fuzzy in a roll and jump on top of him the water physics won't apply after you enter the water (until you jump off the fuzzy). I don't know if it's faster, but it seemed pretty quick. I don't think there's anywhere else you can use this since the amount of water in the game is limited, but it was neat when I tried it.
Posted: 12/3/2012 5:25 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2468)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Nice, I'll compare it with my last attempt. As promised, I'm working slower, but the run is getting faster and faster :) I mastered your instant roll trick, I even took the liberty to change the input, now it is Down, Right+R and then press and hold Down. Most of the time it work in the first possible frame, but not always. I'm also "taking-damage-to-save-time" this time, I'll post a wip soon.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/3/2012 6:29 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Looking forward to it!
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