However, I fully understand that this is probably slower since Lashiec only uses Reinforce when he's already quite weak.
no again. I gained frames at every fight including lashiec
Sorry, I meant the concept of reviving Chaz only once was the slower option. I think your Lashiec fight was quite well done and clearly faster than the previous movie.
The reason I thought you could keep Chaz alive for three turns was because he had three turns that went like this: Possession, Reinforce, Possession. He didn't use Thndhalbrt for three turns because he uses Reinforce once he hits 1/4 HP or so. But like I said, I imagine it would still be slower to do this because Lashiec is almost dead when he uses Reinforce.
when he is almost dead, that means I can do as little as 4900 damage. And since chaz is the slowest, he's the one using the psycho-wand. Keeping him dead (and using tsu only twice) would mean 400-450 less damage...
I might try reviving chaz twice anyway. It looks like the napalmshot is only useful against lashiec. Guns have such inconsistent damage...
Relatively easy way to level (if you need to) occurred to me when I was screwing around in The Edge last night. Encounter single enemies while you're on your way to The Profound Darkness, and luck-manipulate so Elsydeon's insta-kill kicks in on all of tem.
I will try and finish the game first. then, I think i will (finally) opt for Demi and get the repair-kit from kuran. finally, I will go for the plasma-sword, more accessible AND not get the napalm shot, unless it does awesone damage to PD
I will try and finish the game first. then, I think i will (finally) opt for Demi and get the repair-kit from kuran. finally, I will go for the plasma-sword, more accessible AND not get the napalm shot, unless it does awesone damage to PD
Plsm-Sword might be a good idea if only for De-Vars. You basically need a factor 2 weapon, and it's certainly the closest option; the only other ones are Lasr-Sword, Laco-Sword and Guardsword, and the first two of those definitely won't help.
Napalm-Shot will do better damage than Wren's base weapon against PD, but not a huge amount - it is kind of out-of-the-way, so skipping it seems pretty reasonable. The only reasons to get it are Lashiec, or if Wren runs out of Flare a lot.
If you're going to use Demi at the end of the game, you won't have Ataraxia, so using Elsydeon will probably be faster than using Shadwblade (with only 3 Tsu). That means Chaz can gain experience freely from De-Vars and Sa-Lews, which might help. He'll gain some Crosscuts, at least.
To respond to Solon, I still doubt fighting other battles to level up will be worthwhile. Suppose Chaz gained 20 levels, even in a really good case that is only going to make a 30-damage-per-turn difference, and those are turns where he's not healing or using an item.
But, again, I could totally see an exception to this if a major tech or skill was within reach for any character.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1064967237/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv
here's what the run looked like with raja. The napalm shot is definitly not that useful...
I started again. I got the plasma sword, which will be useful against the strength tower boss AND not so out of the way like the guard sword.
For Profound darkness : I think I need to keep chaz dead. after the courage tower, Rune gets nafoi AND is less than 9k EP from getting nawat. However, without ataraxia, his magic is going to be limited. Should I still get the malay dagger? Should I fight monsters inside elsydeon cave? Chaz will be soooo slow
For Profound darkness : I think I need to keep chaz dead. after the courage tower, Rune gets nafoi AND is less than 9k EP from getting nawat. However, without ataraxia, his magic is going to be limited. Should I still get the malay dagger? Should I fight monsters inside elsydeon cave? Chaz will be soooo slow
I think if you're using Raja, the Mahlay Dagger will be worthwhile (for Chaz or for Raja). I also think this has potential to be way faster, if Chaz can use Tsu 9-15 times depending on Ataraxia, and with Rune having Nafoi or Nawat. The average damage difference between Nafoi and Nawat is only 8 points (unless an enemy is weak or one or the other) so I wouldn't worry about that.
Fighting enemies in the Elysdeon cave is more relevant if Chaz is going to stay alive and use Elsydeon - obviously if he gains any levels his 255 mental goes away. That strategy seems better suited to Demi, who can revive people faster. You may want to level a little if you do it this way so Rune can get Nafoi (at a minimum) and it won't hurt Chaz's damage either. This way you either have to take time to level or forego Nafoi, and (without actually running a test) it seems like that will be slower to me.
I think I had a dream last night where you and I were talking about this. Strange.
Man, that DF3 battle is so boring and long. Are there any purchasable items or old weapons that could be thrown at him to speed it up at all? Probably a longshot.
In the Lashiec battle, is it possible to manipulate that one round where Lashiec kills Chaz before he can cast tsu? If that were possible, he may only have to be revered once. It would be great if a way could be found to do that.
Another possible improvement if you go with Raja: You could take Demi for long enough to unequip her SonicBustr and give it to Wren. It would be a 40-point or so improvement to his attack power.
Joined: 10/17/2005
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EDIT: wrong, nvm. Thought this was one of the RPGs where if you set a character to ressurect someone when they're not dead, then in that turn the latter dies but is ressurected before it would have been their turn to fight that they would follow their original instructions like they had never flatlined, but sadly my tests couldn't make it happen--Chaz just wouldn't stand up and Tsu. Could've saved a turn of rever for Rune to maybe make that Lashiec fight one little round faster.
edit2: Thinking back on it, I was able to get it so that Rune's turn in the move order came after Lashiec's Thunderhalberd attack, meaning that if you use Rever on a turn when you would have used Fire Storm and it connects after Lash's attack, Chaz could have two turns of unabated Tsu using. If you save the revering for later in the fight when Chaz would use the Psychowand, he might even survive four rounds in a row (thanks to Possessions), knocking the number of uses of Rever down to 1 total, freeing Rune for more Gifoi. Fight just enough rounds to make it so that 3 Tsus are enough to make the Psychowand necessary next turn and let Chaz die after that... and if Kyra's move is after Lashiec's, you can just have her Medice that turn so that she can Fire Storm with Rune next turn. Untested, it all sounds hopeful, I think
Anyway, during the first Zio battle where Alys is hit with the wave, you don't need to set everyone to defend. Just try to run away. After the failure message, Zio will continue his sequence of moves like normal, and you can run and fail again, over and over, until Alys gets it. It seems much faster.
The last bit with demi looks pretty good to me. What's the final count on frames saved between this latest WIP and your published run?
about 22k. i'm not entirely satisfied; because of chaz' low dexterity, he misses often. and when he succeeds, PD casts the wrong magic
Another possible improvement if you go with Raja: You could take Demi for long enough to unequip her SonicBustr and give it to Wren. It would be a 40-point or so improvement to his attack power.
it would still be an attack. with raja, I already take the malay dagger, which will be very useful. When raja casts ataraxia (i will use a macro), chaz will use it. bu i might give it a shot
Looks great, and the end really shows the power of level 4 Chaz. However, two major things stick out at me after one viewing:
1) Rika uses Saner during the final form of PD, but you had already used it against one of the first forms. It doesn't do anything because the party's agility is already boosted. Dying doesn't make Saner go away. You'll see this if you use my lua script.
2) If Chaz is going to be physically attacking with Elsydeon, which is definitely the best plan with Demi, then it makes sense to have him survive Sa-Lews and gain a few Crosscuts. That will make ~130-points-per-use difference in damage. As a bonus, Crosscut can't miss.
according to your psiv website, that would only give him TWO crosscuts...
Here's my on-the-fly math:
Sa-Lews is 35000 exp, which is 8750 per person if all four survive.
Chaz current has ~350 experience, I think?
The Sa-Lews fight would bump him to level 11. You're right, that's only two uses of Crosscut. It's also ten points of strength. It might still be worthwhile, but I guess I exaggerated.
janus wrote:
thanks for the saner trick, I should save one round. does it work for other stats? with shift, shadowblade chaz can to 120 damage
Shift should also only need to be used once, and that would go for Elsydeon or Shadwblade. Death doesn't cause the attack stat to reset to its base value. Could be a good investment!
Anyway, during the first Zio battle where Alys is hit with the wave, you don't need to set everyone to defend. Just try to run away. After the failure message, Zio will continue his sequence of moves like normal, and you can run and fail again, over and over, until Alys gets it.
Wow, that is an excellent observation. I can't believe none of us had thought of that earlier.
EDIT: Hey, guess what I spent my evening doing!
twisted eye : in order for chaz to use to many tsu, I would need Kyra to lose quite a bit less HP, and that's a lot of manipulation. when I get back to lashiec (i need to rework zio 1!), I will try it
