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Joined: 8/13/2005
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If you're going to need a repair kit and Demi, you could also consider getting a Moon-Dew or Sol-Dew near your path and using a stronger partner like Kyra. Well, Kyra's best in terms of defense and not bad offensively. As a bonus she has Warla and can heal Wren with Medice so that he can stay on offense. I would expect Demi (or Gryz or Hahn) to join at a much lower level than Kyra or Raja due to the way experience distribution works in this game. Demi wouldn't really be able to contribute anything at all other than Medic Pw. Unfortunately getting Sol- or Moon-Dew could be a pain in the butt.
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that's why I prefer Demi. Wren would use the repair kit on her, and the turn after, she resurects everyone. PLus, she doesn't run out of magic And because I level up so little, Kyra still doesn't have warla. unless I use the moon dew from the courage tower...
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Hm, yeah, looks like Kyra is still a few thousand experience from learning Warla. That's unfortunate, it would be way stronger than Deban. Oh well.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/874059850/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv this is it! notwithstanding the superfluous macro ( I will redo it to exclude it), is it publishable?
Joined: 5/24/2004
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It looks good. My only possible improvement question: After you beat DF3 and warp back to Kadary, wouldn't it be a bit faster to hop in the Hydrofoil and drive to the spaceport instead of walking? Hydrofoil is so fast.
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I was looking carefully for things like that. I noticed there's no Land-Rover between Raja Temple and Ryuon, but that's trip's so short that I bet janus tested it and found it slower. janus, I noticed around Lashiec that you use a Fire Storm macro with Kyra and Rune, with Rune using Hewn and Kyra using Gifoi. There might be a reason you did it this way (TP or level or something), but it'll be stronger if you use Hewn with Kyra and Gifoi with Rune. Kyra's Hewn is stronger than Rune's by 48 base points, factoring in the increased damage from Lashiec's fire weakness it could make a turn or two of difference (~72 damage per Fire Storm). Even Kyra's Hewn + Rune's Flaeli should be stronger than Rune's Hewn + Kyra's Gifoi (by 24 base points, ~36 damage per Fire Storm). The other thing was PD3, where you let Raja die (intentionally). Raja's Miracle skill will actually heal Wren (and everyone else), probably enough for Wren to be able to use more Flares or regular attacks, for PD3 to target someone else once without killing them (maybe?), and overall have a few less heal actions and hopefully fewer turns overall. Miracle also animates faster than Recover. I'm not sure if it would save time though since Raja isn't capable of much when he isn't healing. If you wanted to take a look at this and test it out, maybe see if you can get Raja to sleep part of the time.
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i might give it a try. but I havwe my doubts; opening/closing windows would probably take as much time
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FreshFeeling wrote:
janus, I noticed around Lashiec that you use a Fire Storm macro with Kyra and Rune, with Rune using Hewn and Kyra using Gifoi. There might be a reason you did it this way (TP or level or something), but it'll be stronger if you use Hewn with Kyra and Gifoi with Rune. Kyra's Hewn is stronger than Rune's by 48 base points, factoring in the increased damage from Lashiec's fire weakness it could make a turn or two of difference (~72 damage per Fire Storm). Even Kyra's Hewn + Rune's Flaeli should be stronger than Rune's Hewn + Kyra's Gifoi (by 24 base points, ~36 damage per Fire Storm). .
i do intend to do another run, with demi that time. Once she<s resurected from megid, she can resurect everyone AND yield about 150 damage. i will keep it in mind
BigBoct
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Looks excellent, definitely publishable quality. Hell, even your last full-game WIP would've been publishable had it not been for the extremely lengthy manipulation during The Profound Darkness.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1451018973/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv unless the run needs major changes (running with demi will come later once it's published) this is it! 400 frames shorter thanks to fresh feeling'S suggestion with miracle (it got even luckier with PD2)
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Shouldn't you run demi *before* submitting? It makes more sense to try it first.
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because, just like BOF 2, I want to publish first. I will try the alternative method after (for BOF 2, it<S the meow staff. here, it<s demi) EDIT http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/670652005/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv corrected a little so only 2 attacks are necessary for the final hit
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Got something that might help you in your next attempt. According to Meteor9's Let's Play of PSIV (specifically, see here) the Shadowblade you can find from Shadowsabre's in Zio's Fort has stats so high that it causes Chaz's stats to roll over to lower than base when it's equipped; but if he's level 1, his stats will be low enough that they won't roll over and it'll make him extremely powerful.
Previous Name: boct1584
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Without Shadwblade:
Lvl Exp   HP  TP  Str  Mtl  Agi  Dex
1   00    25  10  8    6    7    5
2   21    31  13  9    7    8    6
3   109   34  17  11   8    9    7
4   293   39  19  13   9    10   8
5   625   49  22  14   10   11   9
6   1145  53  28  15   11   12   10
7   1902  62  32  17   12   13   12
8   2933  67  34  18   13   14   13
9   4276  74  37  20   14   15   15
10  5974  77  40  21   15   16   16

With Shadwblade:                                   
Lvl Exp   HP  TP  Str  Mtl  Agi  Dex
1   00    25  10  8    252  2    251
2   21    31  13  9    253  3    252
3   109   34  17  11   254  4    253
4   293   39  19  13   255  5    254
5   625   49  22  14   0    6    255
6   1145  53  28  15   1    7    0
7   1902  62  32  17   2    8    2
8   2933  67  34  18   3    9    3
9   4276  74  37  20   4    10   5
10  5974  77  40  21   5    11   6
These numbers were done mathematically, not empirically, and I'm not positive about the zero values. Some might be off by 1. Anyway, the benefit is more-or-less limited to crazy technique damage, but Chaz's first offensive technique (Tsu) is learned at level 4. So while you're at level 4 but before you hit level 5, Chaz will have a base Tsu damage of 255+48. This is before weaknesses are factored in, which would probably put it in the ~450 damage area. This could conceivably make for a super fast Juza/Gy-Laguiah/Zio corridor but it is useless if Chaz reaches level 5. His agility will remain at a very low value but because these bosses use so many single-target attacks I could see this being viable until Lashiec. Not sure what you would do with a level 4 Chaz at that point. Maybe he could just stay at level 4 but die against Lashiec. Also, given that at level 4 Tsu can only be used 3 times, I'm not sure this would be a good idea at all when it gets to endgame bosses. Maybe if Ataraxia is in play. BIG EDIT: I've been giving this a lot more thought. I knew about the Shadwblade rollover but never really figured it had a practical application because it can only really be used at level 4, but knowing how well the party can operate at low levels I think this could really go somewhere. Prior to Zio's Fort, here are the group's experience-related stats: Gryz: Lv: 6 / Ex: 1089 / Nx: 644 Alys: Lv: 7 / Ex: 2569 / Nx: 1209 Hahn: Lv: 2 / Ex: 112 / Nx: 4 Chaz: Lv: 3 / Ex: 112 / Nx: 181 Rika: Lv: 1 / Ex: 0 / Nx: 15 The strategies up until this point (yes, all two fights) are pretty clearly the fastest possible. In order for a Shadwblade strategy to work, two things need to happen in Zio's Fort. Chaz needs to reach level 4 (181 experience points) without reaching level 5 and he needs to get a Shadwblade. This can happen in one fight; either a Shadowsabr with only two party members alive or a Shadowsabr and a Ripper together with all party members alive. In order to beat Juza without leaving it makes sense that the second one is the better option. Shadowsabr: 525 525 / 5: 105 525 / 4: 132 525 / 3: 175 525 / 2: 263 Ripper + Shadowsabr: 498 + 525 = 1023 1023 / 5: 205* (this is the best option if only making one trip) 1023 / 4: 256 1023 / 3: 341 After the fight noted above, Hahn, Chaz and Rika would gain levels as follows: Hahn: Lv: 3 (learns Wat) / Ex: 317 / Nx: 1 Chaz: Lv: 4 (learns Tsu) / Ex: 317 / Nx: 308 Rika: Lv: 3 (2 levels, nothing learned) / Ex: 205 / Nx: 30 In order to do this fight quickly, a combination of Gryz's Crash and Alys' Vortex would do nicely. It would be best to create a macro before Igglanova 2 as follows: Gryz (Crash), Alys (Vortex), Chaz (Attack), Hahn (Attack) This could be used for the Shadowsabr/Ripper fight as well and save some input time. The Crmc-Sword from BirthVally could be skipped which saves a second or two. The way the game would play out would be a little different: Juza: Chaz would get two shots of Tsu against Juza for roughly 900 of his 1500 HP. Then Chaz would need to die (along with Alys, Hahn and Gryz for best XP use). With this, and maybe Hahn using Wat, a lot of the time spent in the extra fight would be made up right here. Gy-Laguiah: Chaz does roughly 1350 of Gy-Laguiah's 2580 HP in 3 turns, then dies. This will be faster. Zio: Chaz does roughly 1350 of Zio's 2889 HP in 3 turns, then dies. This will be faster. Chaossorcr: Chaz can kill this guy in one hit, but we can't really let that happen. Let Chaossorcr kill Chaz, then Rika use Eliminat. Slightly slower. Dark Force (1): This guy is actually flagged "extra weak" to Tsu. Chaz will do about 1800 of his 4540 HP in three turns if he can live that long. Raja can even use Ataraxia if necessary to get Chaz to use more Tsus. Then Chaz has to die. This will be faster. Xe-A-Thouls: This should be both slightly faster and slightly easier - with Chaz doing ~600 HP each turn with Tsu it should only take two turns to kill one of them and remove their counter attack. Then Chaz dies. Lashiec: Things will get tricky here; janus was unable to get Lashiec to avoid using a multi-target attack, instead having him use Thndhalbrt every other turn and a sleep move on the "safe" turns. With Chaz's low agility it is unlikely he would be able to attack more than once - maybe if we had Chaz revived by Rune or a Moon-Dew item, but this would be sacrificing someone else's turn for Chaz's ~450 damage Tsu. In the current run, Chaz is just dead for the whole fight so it's not like it would be losing time, it's just difficult to gain any. (Tangent: I'm thinking it may be worthwhile for Wren to get the Napalmshot for Lashiec (weak to it) and PD (running out of Flare), but I'm not sure) Dark Force (2): The current fight was so well-manipulated that Chaz would be safe. He can use Tsu for ~450 damage three times, then have him use Eclpstorch as an item in macros. This should do maybe ~72 damage each turn. Then he dies. Dark Force (3): Similar to the previous fight, Chaz is safe, but he'll only be doing ~1350 damage unless an itemcast of some sort is used. It doesn't make sense to have Flamesword or Thundrclaw, but maybe it would be worthwhile to get the Laco-Rod from Espermansion. Or, hey, maybe he could just die. It would be hard to save time starting here, but Chaz would still be useless if he was levelled at this point. It probably makes more sense to keep him dead. De-Vars: This will be worse by about 20 damage per turn... which really isn't that bad. But worse nonetheless, probably by one full turn. Sa-Laws: Chaz will get his standard three shots of Tsu, but Sa-Laws is the only boss not weak to it. It will only do about ~300 damage per Tsu. This will be a good bit worse. I'm pretty sure you can't use itemcasts against Sa-Laws either without provoking Legeon. PD: Here's my thought: Chaz can use Tsu three times for 450 damage each (~1350 total). If Raja is brought, he can refresh this 3 times with Ataraxia. The other option is giving Chaz the Elsydeon and forgetting about the Shadwblade at this point. Chaz's attack with Elsydeon, given his level 4 stats, would do ~200 damage (current run is ~260 normal, ~400 for Crosscut). Chaz's damage wouldn't really be that bad, but either way this fight would probably be slower than the published run. Probably. All the characters besides Chaz are going to have marginally more experience when Chaz is dead all the time. I think Rune will have Nafoi, which would make a 50 damage/turn difference. Another thing to consider for PD would be yoinking Hahn's Mahlaydggr which would cost about 4 seconds and has an itemcast for about 160 damage. This might be useful for any character doing less than 160 each turn, like Raja, maybe. Anyway, yeah, this level 4 Chaz with Shadwblade thing might have some serious potential. Anyone see any big issues?
BigBoct
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I remember reading in meteor9's LP that you have to be very careful when you level your characters to 99 because of the rollover bug, which implies to me that stat gains at level-up can be manipulated. If this is the case, you can manipulate Chaz to not gain MTL as often as possible, and get him to a higher level than 5.
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No, that's not true. All stat gains are completely fixed, but there's erratic behavior that occurs at level 99. The level 99 bug is not because of a rollover bug, but (presumably) because the character stat tables aren't bounded somehow. When, for example, Chaz reaches level 99, if his experience is higher than his requirement for level 99 but below Alys' requirement for level 99, he will copy Alys' level 98 stats, including having only 3 skills available. Interestingly this has been fixed on the Wii's VC port with a very small patch included with the ROM file. There's a full chart of all character stats at every level available at http://www.wrftpb.com/psiv/ .
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I made a Lua script today (my first!) for this game. It's probably pretty badly coded, but at least it looks nice. I put it here: http://en.pastebin.ca/1733426 With some screenshots available here for the mildly curious: http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8058/phantasystar4theendofth.png http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8058/phantasystar4theendofth.png http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8058/phantasystar4theendofth.png I'd upload them to a better spot but unfortunately I'm not able at the moment. Basically, when capslock is active it displays a big GUI with a lot more information than the game typically provides, including current/max HP and TP, and in-battle/equipped/base attack, defense, magic defense, strength, mental and agility. It's designed to match the game's in-battle GUI but it can also be used outside of battle. It could be somewhat useful for quick reference while TASing, and also just nice in general. It only includes information about your party right now, seems like it would be more useful if the enemy stats were included. I'll probably add to it later. Suggestions/feedback welcome. EDIT: Youtube video demo of the Lua thingie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTzsYigByrs
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That is awesome. Will definitely help whoever decides to try the low level Chaz run.
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I made a little proof-of-concept video for level 4 Chaz with Shadwblade. It uses a hacked savestate. You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LHCvs8Q_0I It looks like it will work nicely. I actually thought this was going to run into complications when I saw that Chaz's reduced mental makes his hidden magic defense stat roll over backwards to 65534... I was worried it would make bosses unable to kill him. Oddly it didn't seem to affect the damage he took from techs - I guess that value is signed. I tested this against Juza. In concept, this Shadwblade idea will work. It's still hard to say whether it will save any time in total (due to slower fights near endgame), but it seems probable. I'll be uploading another video shortly that's just sort of a demo of the Lua script mentioned above as well.
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I was thinking about redoing the run so I ended with Demi... this sounds interesting. thanks for the lua script; my computer knowledge is rather limited. You will get due credits if I use your technique.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1575971189/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv I fought the battle and I got the blade. But when I tried to save time and do it again, it wouldn't drop. HOW CAN I GET IT?!
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Unfortunately I don't know the specifics there. The enemy item drop stuff is just sort of being looked at the for the first time recently (and I myself haven't done anything with it yet). As far as I know whether there's a drop could even be determined at the start of the battle.
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I FINALLY got it. It made me save over 4k frames after the ladea tower. LEt's hope I calculated my dimates right...
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4000 frames already? I was expecting the time saved against Juza to be maybe breaking even! You'll definitely need fewer dimates, but I'm not sure how many fewer.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/160762778/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv damn. I only need THREE dimates. I still need to buy them; the treasures are too far off-course I got to Zio nearly 9k frames ahead!!
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