We haven't got everything yet but here are some of the details. Hopefully someone in this topic who can read memory values can work out the rest.
Mario running, jumping, triple jumping, etc - 48 speed (going left or right at max speed)
Shell mario - running jump, etc - 48 speed (Similar to above but wearing a shell)
Shell mario spinning - 44 speed. (When Mario hides inside the shell and moves left or right)
Shell mario spinning and jumping - 44 speed (Jump when the shell is spinning).
Horizontal Speed tier.
Rank A
1. *Star Mario (Running at max speed, stick his arms out)
Rank B
2. Star Mario (Jumps at max speed "screwattack")
2. **Normal Mario (Running at max speed)
2. ***Normal Mario (Jumps at max speed)
Rank C
5 Shell Mario (Spinning in his shell)
5 Star Shell Mario (Spinning in his shell with the star power up)
5 Shell Mario (A jump whilst spinning at the same time)
*Mario doesn't get extra speed from the star when shell spinning,
** Running in max speed without the star only applies to, Small, Super, Fire and possibly Mini forms, Shell form does not let Mario/Luigi stick their arms out.
*** Non-shell power ups are much easier to perform Triples jumps in real time mainly because it doesn't get interrupted to do something else like the Blue Shell does.
The only way to get Shell Mario's speed to be in Rank B is to keep on jumping before Mario starts to shell spin.
I've noticed it is possible to triple jump in the shell (this game is what NSMB stands for) and I was wondering what that speed is. It's probably 48 as you said, but still....
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So the goal here is to obsolete the current published TAS?
If so, are you aware that I am(was) working on an improvement?
http://code.google.com/p/adelikat-tas/source/browse/#svn/trunk/NSMB
I got stuck trying to manipulate the movements in world 5, that is a terrible pain there. Then I got busy and haven't had a chance.
If you aren't done within the next 4-6 weeks, I would love to collaborate. Otherwise feel free to use any of my WIPs and good luck. An improvement is long overdue.
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
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We already know that it was possible to triple jump as Shell Mario/Luigi and yes it is 48. This is the only way to get max speed since spinning in the shell is notably slower :).
I got stuck trying to manipulate the movements in world 5, that is a terrible pain there. Then I got busy and haven't had a chance.
At least it's not the 100% run, manipulation on that will be an absolute nightmare.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
adelikat wrote:
So the goal here is to obsolete the current published TAS?
If so, are you aware that I am(was) working on an improvement?
http://code.google.com/p/adelikat-tas/source/browse/#svn/trunk/NSMB
I got stuck trying to manipulate the movements in world 5, that is a terrible pain there. Then I got busy and haven't had a chance.
If you aren't done within the next 4-6 weeks, I would love to collaborate. Otherwise feel free to use any of my WIPs and good luck. An improvement is long overdue.
Which version of desmume were you using?
I might give it a shot
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
adelikat wrote:
I was using 9.2+ but I think it syncs with 9.4 (but not 9.4+)
Thats cool, ill just stick with 9.2+
Also, with manipulating the hammer bros.
Is the goal that you were aiming for to move one to 5-G, one to 5-mini castle and thus avoiding having to get past one in 5-3?
I quickly looked through the forums and i don't think anyone has mentioned what the x-speed and y-speed addresses are. Could you possibly tell me?
Finally, what method have you been using to manipulate the hammer bros.? I remember someone mentioning changing the score.
I was using 9.2+ but I think it syncs with 9.4 (but not 9.4+)
Thats cool, ill just stick with 9.2+
Also, with manipulating the hammer bros.
Is the goal that you were aiming for to move one to 5-G, one to 5-mini castle and thus avoiding having to get past one in 5-3?
I quickly looked through the forums and i don't think anyone has mentioned what the x-speed and y-speed addresses are. Could you possibly tell me?
Finally, what method have you been using to manipulate the hammer bros.? I remember someone mentioning changing the score.
I'm trying to narrow down addresses as to what determines the contents/route of the flying boxes. I do not know if they apply to hammer bros though, but I'm still trying to see if these addresses actually have anything to do with the flying boxes. I've narrowed it down from the 12 of a previous post to 5:
(all are 1 byte)
02094D2D
02094D2E
02094D2F
020956E7
02095777
As for the hammer bro manipulation, getting hammer bro or a flying box to 5-Ghost will lead to a huge time saver in the elevator section of the level. I'm pretty sure it is either the score, the enemies you kill, or (a recent hypothesis I came up with) the route you take as you are heading right in a level (ie. go underneath a row of blocks or run on top of the 2nd row like in 1-1)
Right now, these pictures describe the route that the red block and hammer bros have taken in my current run. I'm not sure if the Hammer Bros would follow me to 5-Ghost though.
@greenalink: Is there a particular spot where you can get the fireflower and not lose time?
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
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I noticed that if you were getting a Mini Mushroom from the Red ? Block on 5-Ghost it's best to get the Fire Flower from the very first block in that level. You would need to ground pound the left half of the block to let the Fire Flower pop out to the right.
Then with good precision you would need to hit the Red block but make sure that the block isn't too high otherwise you would have a hard time getting a good jump off from the block after getting the Mini Mushroom.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NS647WKT
My current progress up to 5-G using version 0.9.2+.
I tried to optimize it to the best of my ability. I don't think I optimized the route of the flying box/hammer bro though. But at least the hammer bro is now at 5-G.
I'm going to compare it with adelikat's WIPs (if only the emulator would let me view it properly without desyncing)
Let me know what you guys think.
We already know that it was possible to triple jump as Shell Mario/Luigi and yes it is 48. This is the only way to get max speed since spinning in the shell is notably slower :).
I think you can land on an enemy after the triple jump and then triple jump from there. Also, if you get a size-increasing item at the EXACT ceiling next to a wall, you move while you're powering up going through the wall.
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Comicalflop wrote:
TRT wrote:
Hmmm, yes that makes sense. But I think its too late for me to change emulator versions at the moment.
Well, if you don't go back and redo using a lag free emulator, it opens up a window for someone to come along and obsolete your movie.
Meh. It isn't like the lag free emulator is emulating any better. It is removing some lag that shouldn't be there as well as some that should. If all someone can do is remove the lag, that isn't an improvement. I'll reject that real quick. Also, the lag should only be in the overworld, so levels can be copy pasted easily. So it wouldn't be hard to convert a movie to a new emulator version (if all that is different is lag).
Progress update. Currently stuck trying to figure out how to corner boost as mini-Mario on a block that is 3 small Marios high. Does anyone know how to do this one?
Edit: Figured it out. You hold jump for 9 frames, let go for 4, then hold it for 2 or more depending on how high you want to jump.
Heres what I know so far:
In order to corner boost as small Mario on a block 3 small Marios high, you press the jump for 4 frames, let go for one frame, then hold jump a couple more times to get the boost (hold the jump longer afterwards for preferred height and airtime). You can see this in World 1-1.
In order to corner boost as large Mario on a block 3 small Marios high, you press the jump for 1 frame, let go for one frame, etc etc (I haven't been able to do it successfully at 48 speed with shell power though)
There is, however, another type of corner boost when you are in a shell. You jump while hiding in the shell at a block overhead. Then, when you are about to pass the block, let go of the dash button. Mario/Luigi would stick his head out and get a small boost. You lose around 4 speed per frame in the shell, but you gain 20 or more speed in the one frame. This is helpful when you have no choice but to hide in the shell. You can see this most in World 5-3 and once in 1-T.
Then, when you are mini-Mario, you can corner boost off a block that is 2 small Marios high (like the one at the end of the secret exit at 5-G). You hold the jump for 3 frames.
Here are the dsm and avi file (avi file is second link)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YU2IXXZFhttp://www.megaupload.com/?d=HRCLNY5Q
Joined: 9/2/2008
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o2bXXsMyUg
Not my video but it shows how to get a Megashroom in reserve from a basic Yellow ? Block but using breakable blocks to keep it. You can do this easily without TAS when you go underneath indestructable blocks like 2-4 and 7-5.
It's useful on a 100% run as it has no use on an Warps run.
oh, i made that
im making a NSMB TAS, and i might apply this into it, but i don't think i will, it could help if i manipulate a hammer bro or red ? block to move to the next level. but most likely, i won't
i will however apply this into the Full Run of the game, especially in 7-5
but when i do, im going to go straight to the castle so that i can get the ability to do the Secret Challenge mode, which will help in 5-B when i get the secret flag.
Blue Shell Mario moves much faster in the water. I was wondering why my previous run of 8-3 (as blue shell Mario) was 21 ticks faster than my current run (as Fire Mario). In my older speedrun, I finished with 306 remaining. As Fire Mario in the run I am working on right now,
I explored it a little. Blue Shell Mario moves at a speed of 27 in water. Fire Mario moves at a speed of only 18. I don't know if this is going to impact the any% run, but it definitely could be helpful in a 100% run
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Posts: 289
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You could manipulate a Hammer Bro to be on 8-3.
By the time you clear 8-2, make sure that the Hammer Bro is on 8-4, by the time you clear 8-Tower1 there is an 100% chance that the Hammer Bro will move to 8-3.
Then you can get a Blue Shell that way.
The only place where I got myself a Fire Flower was on 8-Castle. 8-4 is a bit risky without a shell til the end because the whole level is filled with Scuttle Bugs.
I can also get the Fire Flower by taking a small detour in 8-3. However, I wonder if it is worth losing the Blue Shell and getting the Fire Flower later on. I know Shell Mario moves slower with a Star Powerup (2 levels use the Star Power) and shell Mario kills Bowser Jr slower. I'm thinking Shell Mario is only useful in world 8 for that swimming part.
There is going to be a trade-off somewhere in the run if I try to become Fire Mario again.
I'm thinking I should definitely try to get a Fire Flower before 8-7, where the first star appears.
I must say, though, that it is pretty hard to manipulate blocks or Hammer Bros early in the world 8 because mini-Mario cannot kill most enemies without a ground pound or hitting a block underneath (which the first few levels have a short supply of).
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Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
8-4 (Scuttle Bugs) and 8-7 ("Koopa" Bros) seems to involve more jumping so you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the higher dash speed on most of the places. For the shell it's basically invinciblity but with a faster speed from the jump spamming method.
8-8 (the volcano stage) has loads of ground so getting star there would be decent. If possible manipulate a debris so by the time you hit the hidden star block, the rock destroys the hidden block and you can get the star without slowing down too much... you'll understand what I mean when trying it out.
I agree about 8-4 because the star appears 3/4 of way to the flag.
However, in 8-7, it appears 1/2 through the level; the second half of the level is set in such a way that you can get continuous boosts (which I believe more than makes up for the time lost getting the star).
on a straight-to-end run, you could get rid of the blue shell after 8-3, and from there you could keep going with whatever (of course you need to get the star power). and a faster way to beat masked bowser jr. in the towers is to jump on him, then to a ground pound on him since a ground pound counts as two jumps on the head, then on the right frame, before mario automatically turns to the player for the victory pose, you could turn to the left/right (depending which way you're facing) to get out of the tower faster and save a frame or two.
Another thing is to make sure that you defeat Bowser Jr. as far to the right as possible, because when he jumps out after you defeat him, it takes out a load of frames.
I found this speed trick with a mega mushroom (which can be seen on my level 1-1 freerun )in which you ground pound on a slope and jump immediatly and continue jumping. it's similar to the hoping glitch in SMW. however, i tried it with the other variations of mario, and they didn't seem to work...
on a straight-to-end run, you could get rid of the blue shell after 8-3, and from there you could keep going with whatever (of course you need to get the star power). and a faster way to beat masked bowser jr. in the towers is to jump on him, then to a ground pound on him since a ground pound counts as two jumps on the head, then on the right frame, before mario automatically turns to the player for the victory pose, you could turn to the left/right (depending which way you're facing) to get out of the tower faster and save a frame or two.
Another thing is to make sure that you defeat Bowser Jr. as far to the right as possible, because when he jumps out after you defeat him, it takes out a load of frames.
I found this speed trick with a mega mushroom (which can be seen on my level 1-1 freerun )in which you ground pound on a slope and jump immediatly and continue jumping. it's similar to the hoping glitch in SMW. however, i tried it with the other variations of mario, and they didn't seem to work...
Nice tricks in that video. It looks cool.
Are you sure ground pounds work against Bowser Jr. By world 8, he ducks in his shell. During my first run, I tried ground pounding Bowser Jr but it doesn't seem to work.
When you say "as far to the right", are you talking about Bowser Jr. or Mario/Luigi? Because if you are talking about Bowser Jr, you are pretty much saying "Defeat Bowser Jr as quickly as possible".
By the way, I'm currently stuck trying to manipulate hammer bro to 8-3. Since I was mini-Mario for the majority of the run, the only way I can manipulate is collecting different amount of coins or getting a different score. Here is an .avi file of my progress. I do not know which level in 8 I should do over for manipulation, but I'm leaning towards 8-1. What does everyone else think?
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MU5L555P
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
I really like this WIP video, those vertical wall jumps seen in 8-2 and 8-Tower 1 were unexpected and awesome at the same time. 8-3 is the last level that requires major luck manipulation now, good luck getting a Blue Shell.
on a straight-to-end run, you could get rid of the blue shell after 8-3, and from there you could keep going with whatever (of course you need to get the star power). and a faster way to beat masked bowser jr. in the towers is to jump on him, then to a ground pound on him since a ground pound counts as two jumps on the head, then on the right frame, before mario automatically turns to the player for the victory pose, you could turn to the left/right (depending which way you're facing) to get out of the tower faster and save a frame or two.
Another thing is to make sure that you defeat Bowser Jr. as far to the right as possible, because when he jumps out after you defeat him, it takes out a load of frames.
I found this speed trick with a mega mushroom (which can be seen on my level 1-1 freerun )in which you ground pound on a slope and jump immediatly and continue jumping. it's similar to the hoping glitch in SMW. however, i tried it with the other variations of mario, and they didn't seem to work...
Nice tricks in that video. It looks cool.
Are you sure ground pounds work against Bowser Jr. By world 8, he ducks in his shell. During my first run, I tried ground pounding Bowser Jr but it doesn't seem to work.
When you say "as far to the right", are you talking about Bowser Jr. or Mario/Luigi? Because if you are talking about Bowser Jr, you are pretty much saying "Defeat Bowser Jr as quickly as possible".
By the way, I'm currently stuck trying to manipulate hammer bro to 8-3. Since I was mini-Mario for the majority of the run, the only way I can manipulate is collecting different amount of coins or getting a different score. Here is an .avi file of my progress. I do not know which level in 8 I should do over for manipulation, but I'm leaning towards 8-1. What does everyone else think?
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MU5L555P
actually i was talking about Bowser Jr., but now that you say that, i realize that it was pointless to even mention that XD
and as for ground-pounding BJr, you could jump on him when he jumps then that will knock him down and count as one hit. then from there, you have enough time to do the ground pound, ending the battle. but it would be a good idea if you turned to the left/right before mario/luigi started the victory animation, because waiting for them to turn automatically would be slower.
and, to be honest, i don't know anything about manipulating anything. i'm still a noob at TASing, i just happen to run into these glitches in that video, and im making predictions that could work... so if anyone is generous enough to explain NSMB manipulating, please tell me :(
@greenalink: Is there a particular spot where you can get the fireflower and not lose time?
