I vote against option 1 because it will be a very long run, so sacrificing some speed for entertainment is well justified, especially considering that the lost speed will be unnoticeable (even though it might add up to over a minute, it will be so spread out that you can't notice it). I vote for option 2 for consistency (and for not having to see Yoshi wobble half of the run).
NxCy previously posted a wip of the first part of the first level using 1/1ing:
With 1/1ing
We now completed that same section of the first level without using it:
Without 1/1ing
The version without 1/1ing is 8 frames slower. (Note that in this particular part there aren't particularly interesting things that could be done while idling for the non-1/1 version.)
Edit:
Ver Greeneyes wrote:
2) Using tools, the trick isn't hard to do - it's like faster text scrolling using the Japanese version of a game: it's faster, but it isn't a testament to the skill of the TASer.
NxCy could probably write an essay on why this isn't true. I'll only say, give it a try and see for yourself.
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 103
Location: The Netherlands
Baxter wrote:
Ver Greeneyes wrote:
2) Using tools, the trick isn't hard to do - it's like faster text scrolling using the Japanese version of a game: it's faster, but it isn't a testament to the skill of the TASer.
NxCy could probably write an essay on why this isn't true. I'll only say, give it a try and see for yourself.
Sorry, I guess that was a bad assumption to make. I figured that since it's something used throughout much of the game it'd either be simple or you'd be able to script it where appropriate. Well, I do still stand by my other reasons :P
Given the small change in speed, I don't think it's worth it. Especially if it makes it significantly harder on the TASer and means we won't get to see Extreme Tonguing Action.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 2/18/2007
Posts: 63
Location: New York City
I vote for option 3.
I'm against 1/1ing because it makes it very hard on the TASer, which would make us less likely to see the final movie.
Also I'm against any option that can't be called "as fast as possible", so #2 is out of the question. TAS stands for tool assisted speedrun.
Never mind. I can't really pick between #3 and #2 until I understand what the "extra stuff" consists of.
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 103
Location: The Netherlands
scwizard wrote:
Also I'm against any option that can't be called "as fast as possible", so #2 is out of the question.
I think option 3 fits the definition of 'as fast as possible' the least of all options. At least with 2 you can say it's as fast as possible barring one glitch - with 3 it's up to the runner's discretion (which I'm sure is fine, but not objectively definable).
No to 1/1. It looks retarded.
Though I have to say, I think that 1/1 should be used in a future glitch run, since most of the game would not have to deal with it, and it will help save a second or two.
Though I have to say, I think that 1/1 should be used in a future glitch run, since most of the game would not have to deal with it, and it will help save a second or two.
I vote for option 3.
I'm against 1/1ing because it makes it very hard on the TASer, which would make us less likely to see the final movie.
Also I'm against any option that can't be called "as fast as possible", so #2 is out of the question. TAS stands for tool assisted speedrun.
Never mind. I can't really pick between #3 and #2 until I understand what the "extra stuff" consists of.
- Wobbling the entire run might get annoying, which will be avoided.
IMO, it WILL get annoying past 3 stages.
Voting 2.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
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Sorry it took me so long, but here goes:
Baxter wrote:
NxCy previously posted a wip of the first part of the first level using 1/1ing:
With 1/1ing
We now completed that same section of the first level without using it:
Without 1/1ing
Joined: 11/30/2008
Posts: 650
Location: a little city in the middle of nowhere
I vote 2. 1 will get very annoying after a few stages, and for me personally be unwatchable. 3 is very arbitary in it's goals, but 2, maintains the fastest time possible tag, barring a major speed/entertainment tradeoff.
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
How about a new option, one that makes a bit more sense (to me at least):
- Don't use 1/1 at all, UNLESS it happens to save time that ISN'T related to frame shaving simply by having Yoshi run a tiny bit faster.
To clarify, 1/1 can be used to save a few frames per level, maybe, purely from a tiny bit of increased speed. In this new option I have created, this will not be used. However, if 1/1 can be used to save time some other way (like getting to a floating platform earlier or spawning things in a more favorable way) and the frames saved come from better manipulation, then the trick SHOULD be used. Of course, this may never be the case the entire run, but I think it's something to consider.
Anyone agree?
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
ElectroSpecter wrote:
How about a new option, one that makes a bit more sense (to me at least):
- Don't use 1/1 at all, UNLESS it happens to save time that ISN'T related to frame shaving simply by having Yoshi run a tiny bit faster.
To clarify, 1/1 can be used to save a few frames per level, maybe, purely from a tiny bit of increased speed. In this new option I have created, this will not be used. However, if 1/1 can be used to save time some other way (like getting to a floating platform earlier or spawning things in a more favorable way) and the frames saved come from better manipulation, then the trick SHOULD be used. Of course, this may never be the case the entire run, but I think it's something to consider.
Anyone agree?
This could work. I believe that 1/1 can be used with Baby Mario to run at the speed that you jump off slopes, which is very significant; it can probably also be used to preserve faster than normal speed, like when jumping off of platforms that zip to the left/right very fast.
How about a new option, one that makes a bit more sense (to me at least):
- Don't use 1/1 at all, UNLESS it happens to save time that ISN'T related to frame shaving simply by having Yoshi run a tiny bit faster.
To clarify, 1/1 can be used to save a few frames per level, maybe, purely from a tiny bit of increased speed. In this new option I have created, this will not be used. However, if 1/1 can be used to save time some other way (like getting to a floating platform earlier or spawning things in a more favorable way) and the frames saved come from better manipulation, then the trick SHOULD be used. Of course, this may never be the case the entire run, but I think it's something to consider.
Anyone agree?
The trick only speeds up Yoshi by a small amount, so I can't really imagine it making much of a difference at all for the types of situations you mentioned. I also think it'd be pretty silly to use the trick solely in these scenarios and it definitely wouldn't help to create unambiguous goals/stipulations for the run.
Comicalflop wrote:
This could work. I believe that 1/1 can be used with Baby Mario to run at the speed that you jump off slopes, which is very significant; it can probably also be used to preserve faster than normal speed, like when jumping off of platforms that zip to the left/right very fast.
I also think it'd be pretty silly to use the trick solely in these scenarios and it definitely wouldn't help to create unambiguous goals/stipulations for the run..
Well, the ultimate goal of TASVideos is making entertaining videos. I believe no one is going to question the decision of not doing 1/1 all the time due to speed/entertainment tradeoff.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
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Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 67
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
The only option I'm really opposed to is (3) - it's too arbitrary. Personally I'd go with (1), because I don't really find the wobbling that distracting: it doesn't apply during most boss fights, in autoscrolling segments, and while Yoshi is transformed anyhow.
Just so people know, me and Baxter went ahead with (2). The two restrictions we decided to follow are:
-No warping of any kind (be it left+right warping or warping to 1-1.)
-No 1/1ing.
We believe the inclusion of these two restrictions will ultimately produce a more entertaining run overall.
The run is now actively being worked on and we'll release a WIP once 1-4 is complete.
Just so people know, me and Baxter went ahead with (2). The two restrictions we decided to follow are:
-No warping of any kind (be it left+right warping or warping to 1-1.)
-No 1/1ing.
We believe the inclusion of these two restrictions will ultimately produce a more entertaining run overall.
The run is now actively being worked on and we'll release a WIP once 1-4 is complete.
Thank god. The fact is I wanted you to use 1/1 because it's the fastest way, but it looks so ick and removes so much of the entertainment that I don't mind too much either way.
Just so people know, me and Baxter went ahead with (2). The two restrictions we decided to follow are:
-No warping of any kind (be it left+right warping or warping to 1-1.)
-No 1/1ing.
We believe the inclusion of these two restrictions will ultimately produce a more entertaining run overall.
The run is now actively being worked on and we'll release a WIP once 1-4 is complete.
I think those are two good restrictions for a 100% TAS of this game.
I mean, an Any% is entertaining, but I always felt that a 100% of this game would be more entertaining if done without warps and such.
I can hardly wait to see the WIP.
