I'm not. I simply don't people using over-exaggerations and generalizations to try and predict my (or other admin's) actions to events that haven't happened yet. So please stop being so melodramatic about things.
...do you really think we are overreacting? Come on, be rational.
And that's the problem. No one can predict if a different goal should be accepted by the admins, so no "new" movies.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
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Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
OmegaWatcher wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
OmegaWatcher wrote:
Don't be bitter about it.
I'm not. I simply don't people using over-exaggerations and generalizations to try and predict my (or other admin's) actions to events that haven't happened yet. So please stop being so melodramatic about things.
...do you really think we are overreacting? Come on, be rational.
And that's the problem. No one can predict if a different goal should be accepted by the admins, so no "new" movies.
No, you're not overreacting, and I never said you were. I said you were over-exaggerating and providing generalizations. Just like you continue to do so by saying we won't have any "new" movies because "No one can predict if a different goal should be accepted by the admins".
...yeah, you're right. Sorry.
Let's just ignore this and continue the discussion please.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
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Or, at least, that's the point of all this. Except it depend of the game, the authors and the viewer, but in a different way.
Take, for example, Phil's Combatribes movie. I really hope this doesn't attract any drama. This movie was published here just because he could, no one actually voted on it.
About the games, some genres are negectled. See fighting games. Some people vote "no" just for disling the genre itself, without even watching the movie. And how many full-game racing games we have, besides Mario Kart and clones? And yet, we have really really long RPGs runs, and no one complains about it.
And the viewers... Well, search for "Ocarina of Time" rejected movies, but with oh so many votes.
Well, the reason why fighting games are neglacted is because with most games you can only choose one character for the whole movie. The movie is trying to finish the game fast with the most amount of entertainment that's somehow still possible. Many people agree that this concept fails to deliver enough entertainment though because it's just one character's moves and I agree too. Shang Tsung is an exception of course.
For fighting games I'd like to see movies that can display more crazy combos by the whole cast and not just one fighter. Concepts that I can imagine doing this would be fighting in 2-player mode. I imagine it to be ridiculously hard to come up with good ideas of what actually should happen during the fights to make them most entertaining though. It'd be fun if they also involved two authors.
I can see how racing games can also be too boring. I suspect some would actually do better with time trails as opposed to full game runs. Mario Kart f.e. is an exception imo because it profits from the entertainment provided by bouncing off from other karts. For the majority of racing games, however, it'd make more sense to me to have every track recorded seperately, starting from save states, and encoded into seperate files then. That way single tracks could be obsoleted by different authors easily. The problem would be how to make this downloadable as it would require an entirely different format than the rest of the content of this site. Bringing out a new collective torrent whenever a single track has been obsoleted comes to my mind first. It would feature all the tracks of the previous release with the exact same file names, except that one (or more) files are different.
I realize this would be troublesome to do, but I can't think of any other format that would suit the majority of racing games. As it is, lots of their TASes seem to prosper on youtube instead of here where they'd belong. ;) Sorry, if this suggestion doesn't seem useful, but imo the problem with racing game submissions is their format, not the genre.
As for rejected movies with huge amounts of yes-votes. They are mostly aiming for speed as primary goal. It makes sense to still reject them if they aren't fastest as a new movie will arrive sooner or later anyway and it'd be an unnecessary step in between. For OoT there has even been made an exception to this because making a run used to last even longer than it does now. I'd say most of the time, the judges' decision seems reasonable. But of course you can't satisfy everybody.
For entertainment focused movies, the only valid reason I see for their rejection would be if they fail their goal and aren't entertaining enough, just like speed focused ones get rejected for failing to achieve their goal. Votes would have more influence in the judjing of these. Obsoletion would have to work different, but it would. I can imagine a poll where viewers vote for the least entertaining scenes, then they are redone completely. The most entertaining ones would keep unchanged for the most part.
Obsoletion only becomes problematic if there are two entirely different runs. If they both follow a different theme (basic idea where the entertainment comes from is different (f.e. lots of glitches, strange routes)) and are done well enough I can imagine both being published. If that's not an option maybe one would have to be dumped. As there'd be high risk for the newer movie to be dumped, I don't see many authors attempting to create problematic movies like that. So the problem might occur only rarely.
"I'm just doing some sort of freeplay." would be problematic because that's a totally arbitrary goal and hard to obsolete. Movies like these should have goals like "most surprising strategies", "most beautifully looking" and so forth instead. It'd be still hard to find out which movie beats the other, but that's what polls are for.
No. It is not. That's why TAS is Tool Assisted Superplay, not Speedrun, as it used to be.
Who decided that? You?
I just love it when people argue that it must be "superplay" because of that logo in the forum. That must be quintessential proof of everything. (Never mind that that's about the only place where the term is used, about everything else uses "speedrun", including eg. wikipedia. I don't even know why "superplay" was put there in the first place, but nobody has changed it, and now everyone always uses it as irrefutable proof every time the topic comes up.)
Well, the reason why fighting games are neglacted is because with most games you can only choose one character for the whole movie. The movie is trying to finish the game fast with the most amount of entertainment that's somehow still possible. Many people agree that this concept fails to deliver enough entertainment though because it's just one character's moves and I agree too. Shang Tsung is an exception of course.
Ok', I'll quote a bunch of people here, I'm not even picking names, it's not personal or anything ok.
Check this submission: http://tasvideos.org/2262S.html
That movie was tecnically flawed, as pointed in this submission, but tries to solve the "one character" problem.
And check some replies:
Comicalflop wrote:
So both of you quoted me, yet neither of you actually seem to grasp the most important part of my post: I don't find these types of fighter runs to be interesting in the slightest. I watched it, found it to be quite boring, I voted no, end of story.
nineko wrote:
Oh no, not 16 minutes of this.
These replies bugged me. It's like hating a Arnold Schwarzenegger for having too many explosions; yes, it have, and that's the point of the movie. If you don't like explosion, you'll not see a Arnold Schwarzenegger movie.
And then check this one, it is right now in the workbench: http://tasvideos.org/2291S.htm , and some quotes:l
Excelent run.
nineko wrote:
Fighting movies are usually boring but this one somehow entertained me. Yes vote.
RT-55J wrote:
I was entertained. However, because of my unfamiliarity with fighting games, I will abstain from voting.
superjupi wrote:
I doubt this will be published, because it can't be categorized, but I still say it's entertaining.
My point is: TASVideos' users can't stand 15 minutes of combos, but there's nothing wrong about a 2 hours-long RPG movie. There's a "bias" for some genres.
Kuwaga wrote:
I can see how racing games can also be too boring. I suspect some would actually do better with time trails as opposed to full game runs. Mario Kart f.e. is an exception imo because it profits from the entertainment provided by bouncing off from other karts.
Not just that; MK's series engine seems to be exploitable.
Kuwaga wrote:
For the majority of racing games, however, it'd make more sense to me to have every track recorded seperately, starting from save states, and encoded into seperate files then. That way single tracks could be obsoleted by different authors easily. The problem would be how to make this downloadable as it would require an entirely different format than the rest of the content of this site.
That's a great idea, but I don't think anyone will have the patience to code a table for this.
Still, a lot of racing games will not fall under this; Rock N' Roll Racing, for example.
Note that I don't like most racing games at all.
Kuwaga wrote:
For entertainment focused movies, the only valid reason I see for their rejection would be if they fail their goal and aren't entertaining enough, just like speed focused ones get rejected for failing to achieve their goal. Votes would have more influence in the judjing of these. Obsoletion would have to work different, but it would. I can imagine a poll where viewers vote for the least entertaining scenes, then they are redone completely. The most entertaining ones would keep unchanged for the most part.
Judging by enternaiment is hard as hell. Everyone can see why most TASVideos are judged by completion time.
Kuwaga wrote:
As for rejected movies with huge amounts of yes-votes. [...] For OoT there has even been made an exception to this because making a run used to last even longer than it does now. I'd say most of the time, the judges' decision seems reasonable. But of course you can't satisfy everybody.
I used OoT as an example for a reason: the "main" Zelda OoT run is way outdated, faster, but it's not as fast as the "bottle adventure", so any try between these two got rejected. But it got a ton[i/] of votes, being a very popular game.
And "freeplay TASes..." Depending of the genre.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
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I must say that I'm with OmegaWatcher on that one.
Also, I think that someone want to vote, should at least say, hum a movie of <insert> that should be interesting. After watching it, if you found it boring, you can vote no.
But when you know you don't like that genre of game or that particular game, voting no is kind of pointless.
Then again, the question is if you liked the movie not if you like that movie withing that particular genre.
I know that there's a bias for long RPG, but then again, most people seems to like this.
Oh by the way, the judges takes comment into consideration before accepting or rejecting a movie, I don't think that, I don't like that kind of game have a great impact to make a decision.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Having someone vote no because they don't like a specific genre plays as big of a role in my decision making as someone voting no on every submission because they don't like video games in general :P (i.e. Not at all)
