Practically the only run that people seriously suggested be unpublished was Guanobowl's Ocarina run for being slower than the current <i>unassisted</i> record.
What? Were these people serious? That like unpublishing the SMB TAS because a new timesaver has been discovered... Unpublishing a run because it can be improved is way more rediculous than unpublishing something because it's not entertaining.
It was not being suggested for unpublication because it was not optimal. That had nothing to do with it. It was suggested for unpublication because there was a regular speedrun which was faster.
A TAS which aims for maximum speed and does not beat a regular speedrun is not only against the rules, it's also shameful. It's a laughing stock.
It's not a laughing stock, it was just beaten by a speedrun, if the speedrunner had tried a tas instead they would have got an even faster time. Usually it's because of a new trick or soemthing like that.
I bolded what is exactly my point. I don't believe a TAS can be beaten without some new trick or strategy. It is possible that a speedrun includes this before a new TAS does, but this doesn't change anything. The TAS could even be frame perfect had it not been for that one trick. It only means a new TAS can be made that obsoletes the current one. A very unentertaining movie might just be a bad game choice, without the possibility of such an improvement.
Chef Stef wrote:
I think unpublishing is a tricky thing to do because it removes the "security" people get for their work once their movie is published.
I know what you mean but I assume unpublishing would be a single event, just like the revival of rejected runs.
I'm also against un-publishing for entertainment purposes.
The rule breakers should go, much like the Crystalis video did. Also, Phil's 'gift-to-himself' publication should go, or at least be re-voted.
Also, I fail to see the benefits of removing publications. Are they causing the site massive distress, simply for existing?
Sir VG wrote:
So in that case, we should unpublish the ActRaiser run, since my speed run beats it, despite the fact that it took nearly 3 years to do so.
No one can help that you are badass, but it will be obsoleted... (hopefully sooner than later, I'm looking forward to that run.)
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Also, I fail to see the benefits of removing publications. Are they causing the site massive distress, simply for existing?
I think the point is being consistent. Either it's a site where these movies are accepted, and new ones like these would also be, or it's a site where they aren't accepted, and why would old ones be there, just because they were published at a time where every TAS got a reaction like: "oh, wow... a TAS!"
On the topic of "one track" runs, there is a category for "single track" movies. Perhaps the removal of this category will eliminate such movies from tasvideos.
I bolded what is exactly my point. I don't believe a TAS can be beaten without some new trick or strategy. It is possible that a speedrun includes this before a new TAS does, but this doesn't change anything. The TAS could even be frame perfect had it not been for that one trick.
Keep in mind that tricks don't automagically appear after some time, they're always there waiting to be discovered. And it won't be a mistake to say that it's TASers' duty to discover these tricks, and they have a lot of leeway compared to the unassisted runners in doing so. If a TAS failed to explore an opportunity at saving a large chunk of time, well, then it's exactly that: it failed. Much like the first 3-4 Super Metroid TASes failed because they were since beaten by unassisted runs and realtime savestate-assisted runs which didn't include any arcane knowledge that couldn't be obtained at the time.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
It's not a laughing stock, it was just beaten by a speedrun, if the speedrunner had tried a tas instead they would have got an even faster time. Usually it's because of a new trick or soemthing like that.
I bolded what is exactly my point. I don't believe a TAS can be beaten without some new trick or strategy. It is possible that a speedrun includes this before a new TAS does, but this doesn't change anything. The TAS could even be frame perfect had it not been for that one trick. It only means a new TAS can be made that obsoletes the current one.
I think the OoT TAS was rather unique in that those tricks were known before it was accepted for publication (but after the run was made), which made the whole publication dubious. I think it was published for the wrong reasons: People were way too eager to finally get an OoT TAS, and almost anything was acceptable, even a run which did not use known tricks.
I can certainly understand the sentiment in desiring to unpublish it: The fact that it was published in the first place was probably a mistake.
I think the reasoning there was "Zelda 64 runs are really hard to make, so by the time somebody makes a new one, there were be even more new tricks they hadn't discovered yet and the cycle will never end!"
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Well, everyone seems to be all for throwing out the one-track runs.
(I suppose it is a coincidence that both are made by players that tend to generate controversy.)
They're racing games. People hate racing games -- they're too long and repetitive. I seem to recall quite a bit of resistance to Diddy Kong Racing since it was so absurdly long. Even the awesome Mario Kart movie had some comments about it's boring-ness.
Single track movies can be seen as a reaction to this. Show off the game, but don't bore the audience to tears.
(To be fair, I think a lot of people would like to see a full F-Zero run, myself included.)
I say let them stick around in the back corner of TASVideos (concept demos) -- at least until we have something to obsolete them with.
Please, no witch hunts, single track racing game movies or otherwise.
I say let them stick around in the back corner of TASVideos (concept demos) -- at least until we have something to obsolete them with.
I agree in the case of F-Zero; people are at least willing to touch it, and it's a great game. Veritable classic. Top Gear, on the other hand, is unlikely to see the workbench, much less get past the grue.
I tried making a half-assed demo, just because it's Top Gear, and have screaming-awake nightmares of it on par with 7th Saga. Couldn't finish. I bought all the upgrades and had assloads of money, and the game just doesn't goddamn-well end.
So I think we should dumpster that single-track TAS.
Edit: I also thing mz is spot on: YouTube is better if you want to watch one track of either of these games, but I still think leaving F-Zero to be obsoleted is better, because there's a chance of that actually happening.
Well, if you're up for watching only one track, you could as well download a complete movie and watch any one track you want.
Where are the complete movies for these games?
Yes, in the future, we'll only have full completion, but until then why does it make sense to remove potentially entertaining content from the site?
We could just add another symbol similar to the special star to mark bad runs. It should somewhat look like a danger sign and protect visitors of this site from boring content. "Watch at own risk. Wasted time won't be refunded."
Low ratings are displayed for those movies anyway, but careless users might miss them. Then again, the danger sign could be missed as well. So maybe taking down those movies would be safest after all..
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We could just add another symbol similar to the special star to mark bad runs. It should somewhat look like a danger sign and warn visitors of this site of boring content. "Watch at own risk. Wasted time won't be refunded."
Low ratings are displayed for those movies anyway, but careless users might miss them. Then again, the danger sign could be missed as well. So maybe taking down those movies would be safest after all..
somehow, I don't think that will help the site at all.
I was being kind of sarcastic. Imo it's the users' responsibility not to watch non-entertaining runs. Ratings are displayed anyway and if it's the fastest completion of a game they like, there might be people who still enjoy it.
I think unpublishing is a tricky thing to do because it removes the "security" people get for their work once their movie is published. It would be really disappointing/frustrating to have a movie published (i.e. judged to be a quality addition to this site) and later removed. I don't think this would happen to very many movies even if it were done, but the threat would be there, especially for movies that are borderline on entertainment.
I would be fine with certain runs being unpublished (such as the 1-track runs mentioned earlier), but only as a special case. If unpublishing were to be put in practice in general, I would only agree to it if the four conditions put forward by adelikat were used (great suggestions, by the way). Otherwise, I would be against it.
In my opinion, this is right.
(In other words; "This.")
i think we should simply reencode the run but change the audio tracks to some benny hills songs so the run would become entertaining...
more seriously, pure speed and entertainement can't always go together
if we were to unpublish a run because it lacks one of those, it would be just unfair because other runs have the same problems...
the problem there is that the current line of publication /vote system
can't do a difference between a run that's pure speed oriented and a run that is entertainement oriented...
i think that everybody here agree that we should un publish ( a least the avi) all the "one track" runs so it's a start
i think that we should make a simple graph in addition to the question "should this run be published"
this graph would let the voter choose if he thinks that the run is more speed oriented or more entertainement oriented, so when new peoples come to the website they could decide if they want to see movies that aim for entertainement or movies that aim for pure speed...
edit : i think too much
On second thought, I'm changing my mind on one of the single track races.
I found the F-Zero movie very interesting (probably only because I think the game is awesome), and a full run is hard but possible and would obsolete it. So I think it might as well stay up, maybe with a note saying that normally we don't have movies that don't beat the game and that it is very very unlikely that we will ever publish another movie of that sort.
On the other hand, Top Gear is definitely one of the most boring movies I've seen. Plus, it was published by the author without any feedback from the community. I wouldn't shed any tears if it vanished from the concept demos section.
