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Posted: 11/10/2006 6:24 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
It keeps desynching for me in level 1-2, is there a certain version of the ROM in need?
My Backloggery
Posted: 11/10/2006 6:32 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
(U) 1.0 I believe
☣ Homepage ☣ Retired
Posted: 11/26/2006 11:58 PM
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spezzafer
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2004
Posts: 142
Baxter wrote:
[off-topic]
spezzafer wrote:
In Yoshi's Island, ...
Can I conclude from this that you are continuing your 100% run? [/off-topic]
If I can make it as easy as I can with as much aid as possible then I might take it back up. Certain information and features will make it much less trivial and I won't have to rely on trial and error as much anymore, something which was one of the most tiring aspects of this game. Keeping up Yoshi's speed, particularly in the twists and turns through a level, is pretty tricky sometimes. If I could see what his exact speed is all of the time then I won't have to spend so much time with trial and error. Nitsuja has done a great job so far on this emulator, and I give my thanks to him for putting so many new features into it that make it easier to record a movie.
Posted: 11/27/2006 12:03 AM
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erokky
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
You don't know how happy that makes me when you say that. Even if you did use the word "might".
Posted: 11/27/2006 2:26 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
same. I am so glad that you're thinking of continuing, that was an incredible WIP up to 4-2 and I'm 97% sure neither me or anyone else could reproduce that quality. (most of the 97% refers to me.) as for knowing Yoshi's speed, I believe (correct me if wrong) Snes9x Memory Watch can tell the speed?
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Posted: 11/28/2006 6:52 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Please do continue the project. It would be really great. I would absolutely love to see this run finished, as you have done such a spectacular job at it so far. ^^
Posted: 11/28/2006 1:42 PM
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
I would like to see this continued.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 11/28/2006 3:05 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
Please continue this! I love any% run and this is easily 10/10 TAS when is finished. One my favorite games :)
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 11/28/2006 7:34 PM
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MikeRS
Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117
comicalflop wrote:
as for knowing Yoshi's speed, I believe (correct me if wrong) Snes9x Memory Watch can tell the speed?
It can tell you anything you want, you just have to know what you're looking for
Posted: 11/28/2006 8:11 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
so in theory then yes it could, so Spezzafer would that help?
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Posted: 6/24/2009 2:32 PM
(Edited: 6/24/2009 2:39 PM)
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Baxter
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
Opinions needed. It turned out that the fastest way to move forward in Yoshi's Island is alternating between pressing forward and backward every frame. This so-called 1/1ing is also used in NxCy's recent any% submission, and gives Yoshi an average speed of 788, instead of the regular optimum average speed of 760. This means 1/1ing saves about 1 frame every 27 frames of running. Shooting eggs when 1/1ing is possible. Using the tongue however isn't, and the speed needs to be lowered during this to 760. The tongue obviously has to be used in lots of occasions, but for instance it Spezzafer's wip, it was also often used when it didn't need to be used (1/1ing wasn't known at the time). This includes occasions where eggs are cought that were fired without a real purpose, when eggs are juggled during running or shield or enemies were swallowed and spit out randomly. These things made the run even more chaotic and entertaining than a 100% run already would have been... but were thought not to cost time. Now it turns out these do cost time. There are three options: (1) Don't include these things that aren't really needed. - Goals are very clear, and "as fast as possible" is completely true. - The run will be a bit less chaotic and probably a bit less entertaining. (2) Don't use 1/1ing. - This extra restriction is very arbitrary (although given that restriction, it will be "as fast as possible"). - The entertaining extra stuff will be included. - Wobbling the entire run might get annoying, which will be avoided. - This is the slowest option of the three. (3) Use 1/1ing and include the things that aren't strictly needed. - "As fast as possible" can't be claimed. - The entertaining stuff will be included. - The run will nearly be equally fast as option (1) (not more than a frame per tongue use). - Doing everything you can to make certain parts as fast as possible seems strange when frames are lost on purpose at other places. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All three options have their pros and cons... which is best?
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Posted: 6/24/2009 2:34 PM
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Tristal
Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 280
I'd vote (1), but I doubt that is the popular opinion.
Posted: 6/24/2009 2:48 PM
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
The previous movie is about 356,000 frames. This may be applicable during 1/3rd of that time (generous estimate). 118,000 frames/27 = A high estimate of 4370 frames saved just in the non-warp run. I think the trick should be used most of the time, but when an entertaining opportunity arises I think a frame should be sacrificed. Not having this in a run would be a crime: http://www.youtube.com/user/NxCy#play/uploads/13/rXjMTdpoG2I Voting option 3, be conscious about frame losses though.
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Posted: 6/24/2009 2:49 PM
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
So Yoshi will wobble from side to side whenever the player is using 1/1, i.e. all the time? If that's the case, then I vote for not using it. It will make the run look completely different from actually playing the game and I can imagine it could totally ruin the run for me.
Posted: 6/24/2009 3:08 PM
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2330)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
There's a similar trick in Super Mario land 2 where you can save some seconds by ducking repeatedly. I vote for not using it for reasons Kyrsimys already listed.
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Posted: 6/24/2009 4:16 PM
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Ver_Greeneyes
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 103
Location: The Netherlands
Hmm, tough one. Well, I look at it this way: 1) We already have a run that completes the game as fast as possible that demonstrates this trick. (the any% run) 2) Using tools, the trick isn't hard to do - it's like faster text scrolling using the Japanese version of a game: it's faster, but it isn't a testament to the skill of the TASer. 3) For such a long run, entertainment and variation are very important. 4) A constantly wobbling Yoshi goes against the cute feel of the game by messing up the animations. For these reasons, I choose option 2.
Posted: 6/24/2009 4:59 PM
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Paused
Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 752
How useful/easy to make, would 3 'quick and dirty' test runs of the first level/ten seconds of the first level, be to pick the best rule set?
Posted: 6/24/2009 5:03 PM
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Kles
Joined: 7/28/2005
Posts: 339
Would it be possible for there to be an "animation hack" applied, for visual purposes? It wouldn't have to be particularly invasive; perhaps like the solid magnet beams in MM1 runs?
Posted: 6/24/2009 5:03 PM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
I was undecided, but the arguments for #2 are pretty convincing. Wobbling isn't interesting, and arbitrarily choosing when and when not to trade for entertainment doesn't sound very practical.
Posted: 6/24/2009 6:15 PM
(Edited: 6/24/2009 6:20 PM)
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NxCy
Active player (500)
Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 128
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013
We (me and Baxter) have the very first part of 1-1 done using the (1) rules. There's little room for showing off, so it isn't the greatest example of why it is less entertaining than (2). But for anybody who's interested it enters the first pipe 61 frames sooner than spezzafer's old WIP. Click me! In favour of (2): The right smv The first section of 1-4 in particular shows the random egg shots/tricks that we can get away with without 1/1, opposed to just running down the corridor.
Posted: 6/24/2009 6:19 PM
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Yeah, definitely go with #2 (i.e. no wobbling).
Posted: 6/24/2009 6:55 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
No, pick #1! I want to see fastest possible, no compromise.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:08 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
As one of the persons who have been very eager to see this run finished someday, I believe the most entertaining option should be picked. Having speed/entertainment tradeoffs is normal for 100% runs. With that in mind, I vote against option #1. #2 and #3 both fall under speed/entertainment tradeoff clause, so choosing either won't affect the judgement on the run. I'm leaning towards #3, but it's your call.
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Posted: 6/24/2009 7:21 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
But wobble-running looks so cool when Yoshi does it.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/24/2009 7:36 PM
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Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
#3 seems best. An any% with warps etc. should probably use #1 because the goal in that category is simply "fastest time" straight up. If a run is not of the "any%, no restrictions" type of category then it's already not going to be fastest... after that, why nitpick? I have to think the subset of people who want a "100%, no speed/entertainment tradeoffs" is considerably smaller than those who'd like a 100% run with a few fun moments added in.
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