Why was this brought back?! Edit: The run was rejected on sound basis the first time around, that it is back on the workbench only gives all of the same people a chance to rehash all their arguements. And these arguements were not particularly constructive the first time around. Edit 2: I don't believe I ever watched this run, so weigh my opinion with that in mind. However, the reason that I never watched this run is relevant, and so I will state it here: With the wave of super metroid runs that hit starting with JXQ's 100% v2, I grew sick and tired of watching this game. Given time I'm sure that will no longer be the case, but I would argue that, if anything, we have too many Super Metroid movies published right now, rather than too few.

I know the concern that this isn't the lowest possible % for TASing anymore, but the reason I'd rather see this over the 6% (current low%)? The scope of 14% is a hell of a lot more entertaining then watching somebody use the X-Ray glitch and slowly scroll up while flashing the X-Ray beam left, then right, then left, then right, then left, then right, then...you get the point. The 6% run is BORING. This site is not only about speed, but ENTERTAINMENT! Let's not forget this people. That's what makes this type of low% so much different then, say, the Super Mario 64 low% change from 16 stars to 1 star to 0 stars. It's still entertaining at 0 stars, just shorter. I'd rather see this run on the site and the 6% run obsoleted. Sorry to those that don't agree with me, but this is my opinion. YES to this, gone to 6%. Though I'm willing to compromise and have both up and change 6% to a glitch run.

I'd rather see this run on the site and the 6% run obsoleted.

I disagree. The 6% run is the "official" record for completion of the game as fast as possible using any means available, and thus should be preserved. There's nothing wrong with it. Do you think that eg. the Guinness Book of Records discards records if they are "too boring"? No, even though, after all, also it exists basically for entertainment (there's little practical value to the book other than that). What IMO should be removed is the distinction between real-time and in-game time. I suggested new categories in a previous post. The number of categories wouldn't be increased from the current.

I know the concern that this isn't the lowest possible % for TASing anymore, but the reason I'd rather see this over the 6% (current low%)? The scope of 14% is a hell of a lot more entertaining then watching somebody use the X-Ray glitch and slowly scroll up while flashing the X-Ray beam left, then right, then left, then right, then left, then right, then...you get the point.

In the case of obsoleting a category with another unrelated category based solely on the entertainment factor, a 14% run is a far cry from the best addition that could be made for this game. Also, in the updated any% run the direction of the X-ray beam never changes :)

The 6% run is BORING. This site is not only about speed, but ENTERTAINMENT! Let's not forget this people.

It has a 8.4 entertainment score... So you can definitely not call it objectively boring, therefore it's stupid to obsolete it based on personally thinking that another run is more entertaining.

Though I'm willing to compromise and have both up and change 6% to a glitch run.

It already IS a glitched run, and labeled as such. Finally, save for games where the goal doesn't make any good sense, not having a run trying to complete the game as fast as possible (especially for a game that through time has been so popular to speedrun) is pretty stupid. Man, I don't like defending my own runs. You always sound like such an asshole.

A lot of people have an overriding need for static categorization. That's basically the argument that's being had (re-had?) here. I still see no reason not to have a variety of runs for every game, as long as they don't suck. The more passionate fans of a particular game or series will likely enjoy the diversity, and those who don't care are hardly hurt by the existence of 4+ runs. Of course, most games don't call for more than one or two runs, because there just isn't a lot of difference between them. You have too many runs for a game when there's little discernable change between run A and run B or run C or run D. Each published run should be obviously different in scope and flow. With that standard, the 14% would probably be a candidate for publication, because it is drastically different from the current low%. The 6% abuses major programming errors and skips all bosses and basically all goals; the 14% beats all required bosses, does not abuse major errors in programming, and fulfills the game's major goals. Moreover, you see a completely different style, path, and approach to the game in a 14% run than you do in the 6% or the any% runs. A lot of people are referencing the Mario 64 16-star run as precedent. The problem with that argument is that you can see those same 16 stars gathered in other published runs, and they make up the vast majority of the run. There is very little different (maybe 5% of the total run? probably less) between a 16-star run and the other runs in terms of new tricks or game play. That's hardly a fair comparison. Ultimately, it's the call of the guys in charge. Be the best source for a variety of runs? Or stick with the (mostly) clear categorization that is already in place, be a little pickier, for the sake of structure and keeping things small. There's nothing explicitly "bad" about either approach, it's just a question of what TASvideos' purpose. I find more fun in the variety, myself, and others seem to prefer the structure, so it's not a debate easily solved with democracy (and "let's take a giant vote on how to do everything!" is an idea that scares me). It is nice to be able to throw in your voice, and I do hope everyone's opinion is taken in consideration, but ultimately someone has to be disappointed, and someone else has to make the call on who to disappoint. C'est la vie.

Using the same argument, there is very little difference in terms of tricks or gameplay between this and the real-time or in-game run. I've watched all three. I'm familiar with Super Metroid. They look the same.

Since the judges are asking for more input, I'll restate my point of view. On the up side: — decent production quality; — popular and well-known primary goal conditions corresponding with an earlier run published here; — nice entertainment value despite the handicap. On the down side: — a horrible mishmash of goals and speed/entertainment tradeoffs that exclude each other; — purposefully omitted tricks, which I personally find obnoxious. I didn't count the amount of categories and the author being a royal douchebag about this whole ordeal, but that negatively contributes to the chances of this run being published. For the record, I vote meh to the new submission question.

Personally I don't find the idea of a non-glitched minimum-% run an absolutely abhorrent idea. I think we could have these Super Metroid categories: 1) Fastest completion, period. (As it happens, this is also the lowest-% completion.) 2) Fastest completion without using the save corruption glitch. 3) Lowest-% completion without using the save corruption glitch (AFAIK this would be the 14% completion). 4) 100% completion. Would still be 4 categories like now, but with a lot more variety.

Actually, I kind of agree with this. The new realtime any% that is (supposedly) in the works is supposed to obsolete both any% runs due to the near-identical route and very close in-game completion time, anyway. That will make the amount of categories 4 as you say, although for the time being it might as well be 5 (it's not like it would hurt anybody).

having multiple categories for a run never struck me as a problem. if they're unique enough, there's really no reason why they shouldn't be here. the site provides entertainment, and the runs would (should) be entertaining despite being of the same game. there is such a thing as too much, but it's certainly not 5. the amount of categories Metroid Prime has (13?), now that's ridiculous. having said that, while i did enjoy watching run, it unfortunately is a little too similar to both any% runs. i also agree with moozooh's complaint about omitting tricks. if it's faster, use it. i also say "meh" to publishing it. if an improvement were to be made, one that solely focuses on getting the best time with 14% completion, that would have a better chance of being a yes. even moreso if this new any% does in fact unite the real time and game time categories.

A lot of people have an overriding need for static categorization. That's basically the argument that's being had (re-had?) here. I still see no reason not to have a variety of runs for every game, as long as they don't suck.

Thats sort of the entire way this site works. If we didn't have categories, then nothing would ever be obsoleted. As much as Bisqwit intended this site to be a machinma site, it turned into a competition site. When klmz discovered the flag pole glitch in Super Mario 1, it could have been considered a different run from all previous iterations of the video, and therefore not obsoleted the older run. The same rings true for any glitch/alteration/etc to a run. This site would be overloaded with silly movies, and no way to separate the wheat from the chaff.

When klmz discovered the flag pole glitch in Super Mario 1, it could have been considered a different run from all previous iterations of the video, and therefore not obsoleted the older run.

I think that the key point is how much different the run becomes compared to the "non-glitched" run. The flag pole glitch in SMB1 makes the movie only extremely slightly different from the run which doesn't use it. Other than that, the runs would be completely identical (probably over 99% of the contents would be the same). Thus there's definitely not enough variation to warrant a different category, no matter how much you try to stretch the definition. Now, if a run of some game abuses a glitch which allows it to complete the game 10 times faster than the non-glitched version, that is a huge difference and certainly at the very least warrants considering creating two categories. This is quite especially so if the glitched version can be considered significantly less entertaining than the non-glitched one (again, something which certainly does not apply to SMB1). In the case of this "low-%, non-glitched" Super Metroid run the main question would be whether it's different and entertaining enough compared to the others to warrant its own category.

I think that the key point is how much different the run becomes compared to the "non-glitched" run. The flag pole glitch in SMB1 makes the movie only extremely slightly different from the run which doesn't use it.

I realize this - I was simply demonstrating the need for categories, as oppose to 'accepting and adding every new (different) movie.' It was to demonstrate a point. That is all.

Bisqwit: I want to sincerely thank you for respecting the voice of the audience and giving this run a second chance.

There's one or two neat tricks that don't appear, such as the lake missle skip, but those would be better shown off on Saturn's Youtube Channel. I don't feel that it's worth 100MB to download the movie file for just that.

There is more than that, such as the completely different strategies at some bosses, the totally different big Metroid skip, or many tricks you won't see anywhere else due to the general equipment-restrictions over the entire run. To everybody who complains about omitting tricks, please note that there were other ones used instead, which IMO were more entertaining to see overall. It's basicly just a slight speed/entertainment trade-off, and it doesn't cause any difference in the game clock completion time anyway. There is also a nice benefit in the old Tourian escape shaft that way, since it has to be passed 2 times over the run, each of them showing a different approach: the classic walljump strategy at the beginning, and the new platform jumping method at the end, which greatly increases variety for almost no cost of speed. And in response to everybody who thinks the 14% run has poor/arbitrary goals, if you look objectively on it, you'll see that they are not different than in a 100%. Both runs go out of the "fastest time" way to either collect as many or as few items as possible in order to complete the game, and both don't use the OOR/OOB glitch to accomplish that. Because of that, the 6%, even though it's by the number the true low%, doesn't interfere with this 3 main categories (100%/any%/low%), since it uses game-breaking glitches combined with SRAM corruption/manipulation, as OmegaWatcher noticed very well, that have a category of it's own on this site. Furthermore, if going by the logic that the 6% obsoletes the 14% run, shouldn't it obsolete both of the "legit" any% runs as well, being clearly faster in both, real- and ingame time? It doesn't. Why? Because the legit any% runs are just much more entertaining to watch, as they don't skip most of the game and every single boss. Same should go, at least if you want to be objectively fair, for the 14%. For those who might not know the 14% category very well, please check this old 14% run from 2003 for an example. It's a popular, and one of the oldest run forms that exist for this game. That means that many people will undeniable be interested to see it taken to it's limits, knowing that the SM-community (which will be a big part of the people who would watch that run) is pretty large by itself. In the end, we should weight which decision causes more benefits than it does damage, to satisfy the majority of people. If we reject it, the only benefit would be one less category for the site, but therefore people will miss the chance to see a TAS version of this popular run-form, that also might attract those who look for more than just any% and 100% runs to the site. Is this loss worth it as a whole?

I didn't know the 6% run uses SRAM corruption. What kind of SRAM corruption is it? I can't find the relevant information in the submission texts of both this and the 6% run. I might reconsider my vote after all.

I didn't know the 6% run uses SRAM corruption.

As far as I know, it doesn't.

I'll have to agree with all the right reasons that mmbossman explained previously, about the fact that there are too many SM runs being published. It does create an overwhelming sense of confusion on my part and it's hard for me to keep track of certain restrictions in every TAS attempt. No matter what restrictions or handicaps that Samus is placed on, all runs lead to one thing: the same TAS techniques. Samus is not meant to have so many restrictions or even to streak through the game naked. Leave it to the professionals, who can determine what does make common sense in games like this. My vote: not "Yes" nor "Meh."

Samus is not meant to have so many restrictions or even to streak through the game naked. Leave it to the professionals, who can determine what does make common sense in games like this.

Are you being sarcastic? I mean, most Metroid 1 runs uses that password to take off Samus suit, so it's kinda funny you bring this up... And...care to explain what do you mean by professionals? [edit] ...I think I just got trolled...

Those that know everything about the game inside-out and spends countless hours and re-records playing this game more and comparing to others. Some players do show great leadership, common sense, and hard work for this game - and that's what I do respect the most. I consider Cpadolf and hero of the day my top 2 SM professionals, but anyone else could see my opinion differently.

So, everyone must disregard anyone's opinion because someone is "professional" in Super Metroid?

Yes, I am your god and you must bow to my will.

Samus is not meant to have so many restrictions or even to streak through the game naked. Leave it to the professionals, who can determine what does make common sense in games like this.

By your logic, Saturn is the one that should dictate all the rules, just because he has been TASing Super Metroid since before, like, everyone else even thought of it.

Referring to this post. http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/202299#202299 Decision: Submission postponed until a time we can have arbitrary goal movies without making the site unmanageable. Congratulations Saturn, you got your special treatment. Rationale components for the decision: ― TASVideos strives to publish entertainment. This movie is entertainment, so why not publish it? ― Super Metroid has a potentially infinite number of challenges which can be speedrun and which produce entertaining movies. Do we want to publish them all? More importantly, who wants to watch them all? ― Our site guidelines warn against making millions of categories for the same game. ― I don't want politics (i.e. rules) to get in the way of entertainment. As such, I want this movie some day to be "published" on this site, but I just cannot ignore politics either. This decision marks the submission with a never-used-before decision essentially meaning "not right now". If, some day, we change the site to allow for arbitrary goal movies to be published, for example in a manner not entirely different from the old "concept demos", this submission can be handled in that section, but for now, it is outside our scope. I realize this is not a perfect decision either, and not one without repercussions. But such is the tradeoff when one makes mistakes like this. That said, I'll go further away now. Ps: This is not a SuperMetroidVideos, or MegaManVideos or WhatEverGameNameVideos. In my little world, the audience of this site primarily consists of people who enjoy games in general, but are not familiar of subcultures of any particular game. As much or little as my presence will still continue here, I will continue to ignore any and all "but this is a common challenge that all the speedrunners of $game enjoy and know about" sort of arguments. From now on (and in the past as well), you will have to explain any game-specific subculture jargon and knowledge that you use in a submission message, in the submission message, as if you talked to people who have never heard of it before.

Not everyone, just anyone. I don't care who disregards, it's beyond the way I see things. Understood! :)

So, everyone must disregard anyone's opinion because someone is "professional" in Super Metroid?

If, some day, we change the site to allow for arbitrary goal movies to be published, for example in a manner not entirely different from the old "concept demos", this submission can be handled in that section, but for now, it is outside our scope.

Nice decision, Bisqwit. Although I'd question the arbitrariness of this goal, I believe this would be a nice touch. But, in reality, I believe the old (dead?) "concept demos" already IS the right place to arbitrary movies. After all, a "small%" IS a different concept. I read, some time ago, someone questioning the criteria used by concept demos, maintaining the Chrono Trigger's New Game + in this criteria while maintaining the "small only" Super Mario World run, as well as the "walkaton" SMB movie. I propose a reformulation in the "concept demos"... concept. Shouldn't be the "trashcan" of Nesvideos, but a place for different ideas that derivate too much from the other movies. The definition about which movie should and what shouldn't be there would be hard, but in my opinion would worth it. [edit] Saturn, please stop.

om, nom, nom... want more!