Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
adelikat wrote:
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Good idea. The only downside I can see is that Top Spin pushes you back a little after a successful hit in the NES version.
If timed right, couldn't it also push you forward?
Sort of yes. If you turn around and use it on an enemy it'll still push you backwards which is wanted direction here. It would also be possible to manipulate the parachute-enemies to not fall all the down and thus not having to use Top Spin at all, if it's faster.
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
I'm not sure how you could "manipulate" them anyway, since they fall according to your X coordinate.
Well at least it went very manipulating the same type of enemies in the Shadow Man revisiting stage even though I don't remember exactly how, and I'd be suprised if this isn't the case with these enemies as well.
I finished Shadow Man's level and it turned out that switching to Top Spin to get rid of the parachuting enemies is faster and I manipulated them into falling close enough so that I could use my weapon on them.
I admire your determination here mega_man_3.
Before I continue, this has been tested in the past by myself, and probably a few others. It was tested to be slower then.
However, in saying that, this doesn't mean that you should stop the test. It was years ago when it was tested and may have had flaws. I would love to see a third route TAS'd and be faster than previous runs.
Good luck with this, I will quietly be following your progress. If you want, you can upload your .fcm's so we can watch your progress.
Vatchern.
I admire your determination here mega_man_3.
Before I continue, this has been tested in the past by myself, and probably a few others. It was tested to be slower then.
However, in saying that, this doesn't mean that you should stop the test. It was years ago when it was tested and may have had flaws. I would love to see a third route TAS'd and be faster than previous runs.
Good luck with this, I will quietly be following your progress. If you want, you can upload your .fcm's so we can watch your progress.
Vatchern.
Thanks Vatchern!
P.S. Were you talking about testing the strategy where you switch to Top Spin instead of Magnet Missile?
I admire your determination here mega_man_3.
Before I continue, this has been tested in the past by myself, and probably a few others. It was tested to be slower then.
However, in saying that, this doesn't mean that you should stop the test. It was years ago when it was tested and may have had flaws. I would love to see a third route TAS'd and be faster than previous runs.
Good luck with this, I will quietly be following your progress. If you want, you can upload your .fcm's so we can watch your progress.
Vatchern.
Thanks Vatchern!
P.S. Were you talking about testing the strategy where you switch to Top Spin instead of Magnet Missile?
Ahh, no. I was talking about testing the route that you are taking.
I admire your determination here mega_man_3.
Before I continue, this has been tested in the past by myself, and probably a few others. It was tested to be slower then.
However, in saying that, this doesn't mean that you should stop the test. It was years ago when it was tested and may have had flaws. I would love to see a third route TAS'd and be faster than previous runs.
Good luck with this, I will quietly be following your progress. If you want, you can upload your .fcm's so we can watch your progress.
Vatchern.
Thanks Vatchern!
P.S. Were you talking about testing the strategy where you switch to Top Spin instead of Magnet Missile?
Ahh, no. I was talking about testing the route that you are taking.
Oh, I thought that because we were on the topic of Shadow Man's stage using Top Spin. Thank you for clarifying that. :)
You know what? I think there is a sliding glitch somewhere in this game. You remember the glitch that only works on the Anniversary Collection version and not this version where right when you kill a boss and you are sliding the sliding stops but you walk in sliding speed?
I found this type of glitch in MM4 last November when I was playing in Dr. Cossack Stage 3 (stage 0A) and at the exact same time the gate finished closing you slide then start walking but at sliding speed!
It has to exist in this game somewhere!!!!!! We have to start searching!!! :D I know we can do it!
I also have a new strategy for the Snake Man-Gemini Man-Needle Man route. I will start with Gemini Man (not for the entire run just for that boss chain) so I can use Rush Jet for that stage so that when I go to Snake Man's stage it will already be full. I can use Shadow Blade for Gemini Man unless there's some other weapon stronger than that besides Search Snake.
I did find an invisible platform under the reappearing blocks when I was playing Magnet Man's stage. I tried to abuse this glitch by switching to the Rush Coil so I wouldn't have to wait as long to continue my progress through the stage since there was already one near the end of that area. I used the Rush Coil to jump at the bottom of that block but that glitch didn't work the way I thought it would.
So it looks like I'll stick with my original route (starting with Hard Man).
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Thanks, I've done some comparisions to my run, showing whether you gained or lost frames:
Room 1: lost 28 frames - couldn't use magnets
Room 2: gained 1 frame
Room 3: gained 5 - superbly executed:)
Room 4: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 5: lost 2 frames
Room 6: lost 5 frames - I think lag management could've been better here, even though it's very random
Room 7: lost 2 frames
Room 8: lost 2 frames
Room 9: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 10: lost 1 frame - was this necessary?
Room 11: gained 68 frames - no weapon switch
Room 12: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 13 (Boss): lost 597 frames - no magnets on the boss (nice fight nontheless:D)
Total difference: lost 567 frames
I suggest you to continuously compare your progress with my run if you aren't already, though some lag management can be hard, or even impossible, to replicate. I must say I'm a little sceptical about the route choice since it seems much to regain almost 10 seconds later but I take it that you've done quite a bit of research regarding this so feel free to surprise me:)
Wasn't there a strategy to use rushcoil earlier in the first room, shooting the enemies sooner, and avoiding a lot of lag?
Also, I've never noticed before the Mega Man at the level select screen actually looks in a bad shape if you return from a tough battle.
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Baxter wrote:
Wasn't there a strategy to use rushcoil earlier in the first room, shooting the enemies sooner, and avoiding a lot of lag?
Yeah, I used that in my run to save magnets for the boss. I think it wouldn't be as effective in his run considering his different strategies in that room.
Thanks, I've done some comparisions to my run, showing whether you gained or lost frames:
Room 1: lost 28 frames - couldn't use magnets
Room 2: gained 1 frame
Room 3: gained 5 - superbly executed:)
Room 4: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 5: lost 2 frames
Room 6: lost 5 frames - I think lag management could've been better here, even though it's very random
Room 7: lost 2 frames
Room 8: lost 2 frames
Room 9: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 10: lost 1 frame - was this necessary?
Room 11: gained 68 frames - no weapon switch
Room 12: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 13 (Boss): lost 597 frames - no magnets on the boss (nice fight nontheless:D)
Total difference: lost 567 frames
I suggest you to continuously compare your progress with my run if you aren't already, though some lag management can be hard, or even impossible, to replicate. I must say I'm a little sceptical about the route choice since it seems much to regain almost 10 seconds later but I take it that you've done quite a bit of research regarding this so feel free to surprise me:)
I lost a lot more frames than I thought!
This just means I'm going to go back and look for more glitches and strategies!
Aglar wrote:
Baxter wrote:
Wasn't there a strategy to use rushcoil earlier in the first room, shooting the enemies sooner, and avoiding a lot of lag?
Yeah, I used that in my run to save magnets for the boss. I think it wouldn't be as effective in his run considering his different strategies in that room.
I had to save up on Rush Coils fo rthe boss fight against Hard Man because when I run out of Rush Coil, Mega Man won't be able to shoot any bullets.
Wasn't there a strategy to use rushcoil earlier in the first room, shooting the enemies sooner, and avoiding a lot of lag?
Yeah, I used that in my run to save magnets for the boss. I think it wouldn't be as effective in his run considering his different strategies in that room.
I had to save up on Rush Coils fo rthe boss fight against Hard Man because when I run out of Rush Coil, Mega Man won't be able to shoot any bullets.
Ah, yes... I guess that's true. Anyway, it's cool that you are trying a different route.
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
mega_man_3 wrote:
Aglar wrote:
Baxter wrote:
Wasn't there a strategy to use rushcoil earlier in the first room, shooting the enemies sooner, and avoiding a lot of lag?
Yeah, I used that in my run to save magnets for the boss. I think it wouldn't be as effective in his run considering his different strategies in that room.
I had to save up on Rush Coils fo rthe boss fight against Hard Man because when I run out of Rush Coil, Mega Man won't be able to shoot any bullets.
Ok, but if it really would save some time you could skip using Rush Coil in one of the places and use it there instead. For example, if I remember right, the Rush Coil jump up the first ladder only saves a few frames so perhaps you could trade this with the other.
I suggest you to continuously compare your progress with my run if you aren't already, though some lag management can be hard, or even impossible, to replicate. I must say I'm a little sceptical about the route choice since it seems much to regain almost 10 seconds later but I take it that you've done quite a bit of research regarding this so feel free to surprise me:)
I think the Magnet Man boss fight will take care of 4 of those seconds. All I have to worry about is saving about 6 seconds on the disappearing/reappearing blocks part.
Aglar wrote:
mega_man_3 wrote:
Aglar wrote:
Baxter wrote:
Wasn't there a strategy to use rushcoil earlier in the first room, shooting the enemies sooner, and avoiding a lot of lag?
Yeah, I used that in my run to save magnets for the boss. I think it wouldn't be as effective in his run considering his different strategies in that room.
I had to save up on Rush Coils fo rthe boss fight against Hard Man because when I run out of Rush Coil, Mega Man won't be able to shoot any bullets.
Ok, but if it really would save some time you could skip using Rush Coil in one of the places and use it there instead. For example, if I remember right, the Rush Coil jump up the first ladder only saves a few frames so perhaps you could trade this with the other.
I will go back and redo the stage and see if I can find more glitches.
When I was playing on the Anniversary Collection on Hard Man's stage, I was going through the first room as fast as I can and the third bee didn't appear whereas on the original it appears regardless of how fast I'm going through the level.
I lost a lot more frames than I thought!
This just means I'm going to go back and look for more glitches and strategies!
Don't go too crazy - it is a mega man game - the first level without all the specials is always going to be slower - he had magnet missile, you didn't.
You might make it up with your new route.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Thanks, I've done some comparisions to my run, showing whether you gained or lost frames:
Room 1: lost 28 frames - couldn't use magnets
Room 2: gained 1 frame
Room 3: gained 5 - superbly executed:)
Room 4: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 5: lost 2 frames
Room 6: lost 5 frames - I think lag management could've been better here, even though it's very random
Room 7: lost 2 frames
Room 8: lost 2 frames
Room 9: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 10: lost 1 frame - was this necessary?
Room 11: gained 68 frames - no weapon switch
Room 12: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 13 (Boss): lost 597 frames - no magnets on the boss (nice fight nontheless:D)
Total difference: lost 567 frames
I suggest you to continuously compare your progress with my run if you aren't already, though some lag management can be hard, or even impossible, to replicate. I must say I'm a little sceptical about the route choice since it seems much to regain almost 10 seconds later but I take it that you've done quite a bit of research regarding this so feel free to surprise me:)
I lost a lot more frames than I thought!
This just means I'm going to go back and look for more glitches and strategies!
But they only really count toward the theoretical best time being on your route if they are specific to your route, otherwise, it'd be better to use the tricks that you might discover on the existing route.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Also, I've never noticed before the Mega Man at the level select screen actually looks in a bad shape if you return from a tough battle.
Looks like a glitch to me.
I think the face graphics in the first two rows were placed a couple of pixels too low. The select lights are a little out of their sockets, too.
Now that I think about it, didn't RockMan end the HardMan fight lodged a couple of pixels into the ground? That could have something to do with it. It'll probably be back to normal once you select the next level, though.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I think the face graphics in the first two rows were placed a couple of pixels too low. The select lights are a little out of their sockets, too.
Now that I think about it, didn't RockMan end the HardMan fight lodged a couple of pixels into the ground? That could have something to do with it. It'll probably be back to normal once you select the next level, though.
