Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
I personally nominate the most recent Cheetahmen II run by was0x. Yeah, sure, it's a terrible game, but it's a short, quick, fun watch. A good deal of planning went into it and uses a couple of tricks that can't be reliably pulled off. Besides, its notoriety makes it a very well known title.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 247
Location: New Hampshire
A few years ago Genisto had a playaround video of Mario Kart Super Circuit for GBA that I really enjoyed. I guess playarounds are still a bit frowned upon, especially ones that are 40+ minutes, but I personally was consistently entertained for the majority of the movie. A lot of people at the time were not though, and this is probably still the case. This is the only movie I can remember that I was disappointed was not published, I think.
ed: Haha, never noticed the little message in the rejection note :)
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3570)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Why do you think playarounds were frowned upon then? Looks to me like it didn't entertain the audience, which is a pretty needed thing in an entertainment based run :P
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
LagDotCom wrote:
Omega wrote:
Ragowit's NES Solomon's Key 2 in 1:04:05.
I did the first 4 or 5 worlds of this (actually I wrote a bot to do it) a while ago, unfortunately he used the (E) version so our times were somewhat difficult to compare.
Well, either way is fine with me; either Ragowit's version is put up for another vote and accepted and yours later obsoletes it, or we take for granted that you'll probably finish your version in not too long.
But I'd like to say that Pokemon Yellow and Green while similar are very different...
I was trying to make the point that both the Yellow run and the Green run glitch through most of the game, but one didn't obsolete the other because they do it with very different methods, which is the reason I believe that the 6% run in Super Metroid shouldn't have obsoleted the 14% run.
tmont's NES Crystalis
http://tasvideos.org/1184S.html
I honestly think we have the wrong category published for this game. This run is 9 minutes slower without using a debug cheat which would generally be frowned upon these days. The quality of the run isn't perfect, but for the most part it is done quite well. I believe this category should stand.
Blaze's N64 Super Smash Bros. 64
http://tasvideos.org/2074S.html
A fair amount of people probably disagree with me on this, which is fine. There was much discussion at the time regarding this movie, and maybe that was enough to seal the deal, but I'm bringing it up again. I think this run aiming for fastest time satisfies the site guidelines much more than the run published. I also think that the run was quite optimized and fairly entertaining while still accomplishing its goals. There's 100's of youtube videos featuring similar gameplay, why did we publish a playaround in favor of this?
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Kirkq wrote:
tmont's NES Crystalis
http://tasvideos.org/1184S.html
I honestly think we have the wrong category published for this game. This run is 9 minutes slower without using a debug cheat which would generally be frowned upon these days. The quality of the run isn't perfect, but for the most part it is done quite well. I believe this category should stand.
I forgot all about this one. Perhaps it could obsolete the rule breaking published movie? Maybe it wasn't an option then, but now that seems very reasonable.
I'm inclined to agree with publishing that Crystalis run over the wild-warps one. Looking at the reasons Past You gave for rejection, most of them boil down to "bad game choice", which is less of a reason these days. The point on luck manipulation is moot (IMO) because Crystalis doesn't feature random drops; every enemy in the game is guaranteed to drop money when it dies, so you only get items from chests and shops. Thus the only thing to manipulate is the enemy AI, and most of the bosses operate on basically fixed patterns if I recall correctly.
Incidentally, I'm a big fan of Crystalis and think that the wild-warps run completely lacks cohesion.
Edit: fundamentally, the reason why Saturn's 14% run wasn't published is because many people here don't like him. Whether or not that's a good reason to not publish a movie is an entirely different question that I for one will leave to the mods to decide; the merits of the run itself have been discussed to death.
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Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
adelikat wrote:
I forgot all about this one. Perhaps it could obsolete the rule breaking published movie? Maybe it wasn't an option then, but now that seems very reasonable.
Can I play devil's advocate and say that otherruns have a similar deal?
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
There's a difference between using glitches or a game restart sequence, and using a debug code (which is what I'm fairly certain the wild warp is). Especially since the warp lets you go to towns you couldn't otherwise reach yet, unlike the game's own Teleport spell.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Incidentally, I'm a big fan of Crystalis and think that the wild-warps run completely lacks cohesion.
I was going to say something to that effect as well. I'm sure it would be a different scenario if someone found a glitch to warp between towns at will, but the fact that it's just a button combination left in the game really detracts from any novelty it would have.
I'm not entirely in favor of unpublishing the wild warps run, I just think the normal run should at least be published.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
Can I play devil's advocate and say that otherruns have a similar deal?
I'm not too familiar with the technicalities behind these resets, but would the outcome really be much different from a save and reset that takes an extra 5 seconds? I guess you can't save everywhere in Metroid, but at least this seems to me to be the case of Zelda 2. The real difference to me is "saves backtracking" vs "sequence breaks the game."
I'm really sick of seeing people talk about Saturn's movie getting rejected as being biased against him.
Lets look at the FACTS:
1. There was a 14% movie.
2. It was obsoleted by the 6% movie.
3. Neither of these movies had anything to do with Saturn.
4. There was only a minor amount of argument in the first 6% thread arguing for the saving of the 14% as a category.
5. Saturn himself, commented, and made it clear he wasn't vehemently opposed to it being obsoleted.
6. Saturn submitted a 14% movie, and EVEN MENTIONED IN THE SUBMISSION TEXT he knew that it had been obsoleted by the 6%, and had little to no chance of being accepted.
How do ANY of these facts coincide with a bias against Saturn?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Why? Blaze's run is more optimal than mine, and has a clearer goal. I enjoyed his movie more than my own.
IIRC, it was only faster because he skipped the bonus stages via suicides. I don't want to see any of the rejected SSB runs revived. I'd rather a newer, better one came along.
Yo-Noid and Sonic 1 hack with Tails are the submissions I'd like to see revived.
I'm really sick of seeing people talk about Saturn's movie getting rejected as being biased against him.
Lets look at the FACTS:
1. There was a 14% movie.
2. It was obsoleted by the 6% movie.
3. Neither of these movies had anything to do with Saturn.
4. There was only a minor amount of argument in the first 6% thread arguing for the saving of the 14% as a category.
5. Saturn himself, commented, and made it clear he wasn't vehemently opposed to it being obsoleted.
6. Saturn submitted a 14% movie, and EVEN MENTIONED IN THE SUBMISSION TEXT he knew that it had been obsoleted by the 6%, and had little to no chance of being accepted.
How do ANY of these facts coincide with a bias against Saturn?
But it IS biased.
Let's see your facts
1 and 2- The 6% run obsoleted the 14% run AFTER Saturn submitted his run
5 and 6- If he didn't really cared about this un, why he fight so much for it's acceptance?
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ
Okay then, I submit everything else (aside from cancelled ones).
I don't know if this officially nominated all the runs listed there, but I'll post this just in case.
I was actually considering redoing the Zelda Outlands (hack) TAS. Not because of improvements that should be implemented, but because, if I might manage to scrape a few frames off, it could have another shot at the workbench. This thread is quite an outcome in that way... so I'll suggest this one (even though it's one of my own).
Since the glitch was new then, I think people mainly noticed the glitching, while this TAS shows a lot of aspects of Zelda that aren't seen in the published TASes (long sword battle, use of boomerang, arrow, swordless questing, etc.), and I disagree with the statement that the hack wouldn't be 'well-made'.
The votes (even though they weren't that bad) might also give a slightly false picture. One of the no-voters stated he wanted to change his vote to yes. The meh vote was stated to be a 'positive meh vote' (whatever that might be :P). Then there was a no vote from someone who stated he generally disliked Zelda runs (which has a bigger impact, as the game isn't as well known as the others), and someone just disliked hacks in general...
At any rate, I don't think the comments were that negative, and the movie might be received better nowadays.
5 and 6- If he didn't really cared about this un, why he fight so much for it's acceptance?
In response to #5
Saturn wrote:
As of obsoleting the 14%, I'm not sure whether this is a good decision (the any%'s are out of question anyway, being the most entertaining run forms of this game). This run is a heavily glitched NBMB one, which has a completely different category than the glitchless ones, to which the legit low% / 14% counts as well. One thing is for sure, the 14% (no matter whether Speed or Ice route) will show alot of new speed tricks and entertaining stuff no other run would allow you to present (I did alot of tests for this run some time ago), so if we erase it completely from our list here, the watchers won't have the pleasure to see this new and unique tricks. I think it would be best to give this run it's own "glitched" category, as it just can't be compared to any other run here. Just something to consider for the judges.
These don't seem like the words of someone fighting passionately to keep this category. In fact, he didn't really fight for it until it was his OWN category.
In response to #6
Saturn via NesVideoAgent wrote:
Seeing that the 14% category got kind of obsoleted by the 6% NBMB one (although they can't really be compared to each other), I don't expect this to be published, despite the huge and ground breaking improvement.
I didn't say Saturn didn't care, I said he KNEW GOING INTO SUBMISSION. Don't change my argument suit your purposes.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
1 and 2- The 6% run obsoleted the 14% run AFTER Saturn submitted his run
The first 6% was published on 2008-06-29
http://tasvideos.org/1139M.html
Saturn submitted his on 2008-11-08
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7470
Maybe you are thinking of the second 6%?
Edit: Haha, ninja'ed by 3 seconds!
Anyways, even though I don't like the movie (or really any Super Metroid except JXQ's old 100%) I will second that this should have been published.
Along with everything everyone else has suggested (worst case scenario I have a couple more suggestions for Gruefood Delight)
In response to #5
Saturn wrote:
As of obsoleting the 14%, I'm not sure whether this is a good decision (the any%'s are out of question anyway, being the most entertaining run forms of this game). This run is a heavily glitched NBMB one, which has a completely different category than the glitchless ones, to which the legit low% / 14% counts as well. One thing is for sure, the 14% (no matter whether Speed or Ice route) will show alot of new speed tricks and entertaining stuff no other run would allow you to present (I did alot of tests for this run some time ago), so if we erase it completely from our list here, the watchers won't have the pleasure to see this new and unique tricks. I think it would be best to give this run it's own "glitched" category, as it just can't be compared to any other run here. Just something to consider for the judges.
These don't seem like the words of someone fighting passionately to keep this category. In fact, he didn't really fight for it until it was his OWN category.
What is really weird is that the run he later submitted to the site had actually been finished for quite some time before the 6% run (over half a year I believe), so he already knew then and there that this would eventually become a question of his own run, where he to submit it later. Not that this really has to do with anything, I just find it a little weird.
Anyway, I do think the run is worthy of publication in terms of quality, entertainment and being sufficiently different from the other runs published (as well as 14% being a very well known goal for many players). However I definitely see where the unwillingness to publish it comes from, as Super Metroid already has 3 categories and the goals of the run can be seen as somewhat arbitrary. If the sites administration is not yet willing to loosen up on the multiple categories policy, then the run should probably not be published, but if it is, I think that the run is well deserving of publication.
Same goes for the Super Mario 64 16 stars run I guess (though I rather see a 70 star run or a full playaround).
Derakon> fundamentally, the reason why Saturn's 14% run wasn't published is because many people here don't like him. Whether or not that's a good reason to not publish a movie is an entirely different question that I for one will leave to the mods to decide; the merits of the run itself have been discussed to death.
I agree that that is an absolutely terrible reason not to publish a movie.
I disagree that that was the reason Saturn's movie wasn't published.
I think this will be the last I speak of it.
The whole issue with this run is the wrost thing that ever come from TASVideos. The arrogance from Saturn itn't even closer to the rest of guys that even depreciated the autor, almost calling him names. I'd like to point a few examples of attitudes took by OTHER users that really made me sick in the 16% run thread:
Neophos wrote:
Oh my god, the arrogance.
Setting that aside though, very entertaining run.
Raiscan wrote:
Saturn wrote:
And yeah, props to the vote abuser who aren't able to judge the run objectively. Keep it up.
I think you'll find everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Though the fact they chose not to explain themselves here pretty much nullifies the vote..
Twelvepack wrote:
Saturn wrote:
Twelvepack wrote:
Leaving out stuff like that intentionally is either lazy or obnoxious. A good run should be neither.
I defintely wasn't lazy with this run.
Then I guess that narrows it down.
mmbossman wrote:
Cpadolf wrote:
I prefer to stay skeptic to your claims.
With very good reason.
For those keeping track, the above linked "perfect" movie has since been improved by a whopping 30%.
DarkKobold wrote:
Saturn wrote:
Will you ever get over the past? One thing I can only repeat over and over is that Super Metroid isn't Chrono Trigger. The knowledge I gained in SM over all this years is just not comparable to CT, so don't worry, I won't make the same mistake anymore.
"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."
-Winston Churchill
You, Saturn, have managed to learn nothing from your past.
"Don't discuss yourself, for you are bound to lose; if you belittle yourself, you are believed; if you praise yourself, you are disbelieved."
-Michel de Montaigne
"Falsehood often lurks upon the tongue of him, who, by self-praise, seeks to enhance his value in the eyes of others."
-Arnold Bennett
Perhaps if you stopped singing your own praises, you'd actually be able to hear constructive criticism.
AngerFist wrote:
Saturn wrote:
not to mention the many new tricks and strategies it presents which would probably never be found otherwise. Good to know you're not one of them.
Saturn wrote:
Spoofer:
If you consider to make a Speed Booster run, be sure to contact moozooh with that. He should surely have some advice for you, doing "tests" for this route for the last 2 years.
Oh Jesus tap dancing Christ, your ego never ceases.
evilchen wrote:
other question: will you continue tasing :P?
I'll stop quoting, but I could go on, and on, and on. (note to self: page 4, 8 pages to go)
I really didn't found the post that I was looking for, commenting about the 16% run "magically" got obsoleted, and honestly I don't care. I believe I made my point. There's a lot of rage about Saturn, and most of these people are not unbiased enough to judge. Even the very judge that rejected this submission showed bias here.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ
I'd like to point a few examples of attitudes took by OTHER users that really made me sick in the 16% run thread
At least half of those were perfectly modest and civil responses. If it's this kind of posts that makes you sick, I believe you should seek medical attention.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
As much as I love to spread the Saturn-is-a-pretentious-asshole sauce, I'd like to see the 14% published. I personally don't give a shit how many categories Super Metroid has and have never really gotten the whole anti-SM argument. So what, the game's popular. See also CCC and 16-star runs of SM64.
The thing I like more about the 16-star and 14% runs is that they actually show more of the game without being excessively long, whereas the 0-star run skips almost everything and the 6% run (?) takes an hour and a half to perform the most boring glitch ever.
(Kind of funny in that regard, I guess. I've never been one to hate longer movies)
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I was going to avoid posting in this thread to let the conversation play out, but when my character is attacked, I feel I need to defend myself.
OmegaWatcher wrote:
There's a lot of rage about Saturn, and most of these people are not unbiased enough to judge. Even the very judge that rejected this submission showed bias here.
OmegaWatcher, you really have no idea what you're talking about. I addressed this particular complaint here:
mmbossman wrote:
Xkeeper wrote:
I'm just going to come right out and suggest that this TAS's rejection is due to the author.
While I doubt that there is any way that I will convince you that I judged this objectively, I tried to provide rationale for my reasoning. My dislike of Saturn is obvious, but I assure you that I did not base my decision on who he is, or how he has carried himself in the past. Everyone deserves a fair chance to have their submissions impartially judged, and I provided very clear reasons for why I thought this movie should be rejected. My dislike of the author did not factor into my decision.
I personally don't care if you believe that I'm biased. There is likely no way for me to change your mind about that. I can say that I take my judging responsibilities very seriously, and that I will never let my decision to accept or reject a movie be based on who the author of that movie is. If/when Saturn submits a run for SM Redesign, I will gladly accept it. And you can quote me on that. But don't assume that I have any other reasons for rejection than those listed in the thread already.
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