hmm, there's that deku stick mistake in the route and you forgot to add one improvement.
ok, improvement:
get 10 bombs before zora pots game and use the extra bombs for bomb long jump room strat and blowing up the last snowball while sliding up to snowhead
the 1/2 damage from the bridge room also allows you to skip 1/2 damage from the gyorg fight, what could speed that battle up
and is the SS over to epona needed or can you simply sidehop? if sidehopping is too slow, use HISS from alien
this could skip the extra bomb drop before the pots game, but it seems that the bomb drop saves more time, then it actually costs
even if we get the bomb drop, you should use HISS from alien, if possible, because it's so damn cool
we have only 4 deku sticks, so you have to decide, which battle costs more time, if you doesn't use a deku stick.
all I can say is, that garo's master only needs 3 deku sticks and 1 jumpslash, so you just have to decide, where to use the left stick.
I also have a great idea for the bridge room!
if we use bomb long jump, place a bomb next to the ice enemy and when you move away, the bomb explodes, so roll away after placing bomb and do a HISS from it :D
this would be way to awesome, if it turns out to be possible and faster
hmm, there's that deku stick mistake in the route and you forgot to add one improvement.
Hmm I don't find it at the moment. probably to late...
ok, improvement:
get 10 bombs before zora pots game and use the extra bombs for bomb long jump room strat and blowing up the last snowball while sliding up to snowhead
the 1/2 damage from the bridge room also allows you to skip 1/2 damage from the gyorg fight, what could speed that battle up
Bombs edited. though not where they are used... maybe you should just repost the route with the fixes. That should be the easiest cause of action.
and is the SS over to epona needed or can you simply sidehop? if sidehopping is too slow, use HISS from alien
this could skip the extra bomb drop before the pots game, but it seems that the bomb drop saves more time, then it actually costs
even if we get the bomb drop, you should use HISS from alien, if possible, because it's so damn cool
That SS is extremely needed. That's a far far way. Just get the additional drop...
The aliens are also far to close to the barn to be used at this point.
we have only 4 deku sticks, so you have to decide, which battle costs more time, if you doesn't use a deku stick.
all I can say is, that garo's master only needs 3 deku sticks and 1 jumpslash, so you just have to decide, where to use the left stick.
We can still try to get the infinite deku stick to work. Otherwise yes, we have to decide.
I also have a great idea for the bridge room!
if we use bomb long jump, place a bomb next to the ice enemy and when you move away, the bomb explodes, so roll away after placing bomb and do a HISS from it :D
this would be way to awesome, if it turns out to be possible and faster
Ok now it's official, you have to repost the route with the fixes and improvements.
Finally, brought to you by Slowking, MrGrunz and Azorae, here's the finished Majora's Mask TAS route:First Cycle
get 2r right after you get turned into a Deku (2r)
hear grandmas storys twice and dance with the scarecrow, deposit the 2r
get to ECT, do a full run through termina field to WCT (101r)
get to ECT, get fairy, do a half run through termina field to NCT, get 99r, get magic, deposit the rupees (200r)
Second Cycle
Hit CT Owl, Withdraw 200R, Buy Bomb Bag + 20 Chus (70R) (20B) (20C)
ISG-ISS to Fence, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Hover over Fence with Bomb and Chu, SS to GB (17B) (19C)
ISS to Water, Hit Owl, Get Zora Mask, Leaver Slide to South Bay (16B) (19C)
Flying Zora to Fountain, Blow up Rock with Chu, Play SoDT (at least somewhere around here), New Fairy Fountain Strat (12B) (10C)
SS to Owl, Hit Owl, 5 Bombs from Plant, Recoil Flip with Bomb down to River, Swim to Swamp, Go to Lost Woods, Get 10 Rupees, ISS from Bombchu, Get Bottle (15B) (9C)
ISS to Octo, Sidehops to Deku Palace, ISG-ISS past Deku Guards, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Use old Zora Jump Strat, Get Sonata + SoS (11B) (9C)
Get 3 Deku sticks from Dekus and 1 Deku Stick from pot on the way to Woodfall Temple, Enter Temple
Mega Flips past Gap, Kill Lizarfos with Jumpslash Strat, Get Bow (9B) (8C)
Recoil Flip to get OoB, 8 Mega Flips, Kill Odolwa (1B) (0C)
Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus, Leave to GB (0R) (1B) (20C)
HISS to bush, Megaflip of the blob down the ledge, ISS to other Bush, Get 20 Bombs + 20 Rupees, HISS of red blob to Milk Road, ISG-ISS to Rock, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, 3 Bombchu Hovers, SS to Epona, Get Bottle (20R) (17B) (17C)
Warp to GB, Swim to Pirate's Fortress, Mega Flip past Gap, Get Hookshot, Zora Egg, Recoil Flip with Bomb to second Zora Egg, Deposit Eggs (14B) (16C)
Back to Pirate's Fortress, Skip Pirate Battle with 4 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flips, Skip second Pirate Battle with Recoil Flip from Bomb, Deposit Eggs, Get rest of Zora Eggs, Learn NWBN (7B) (15C)
Play Zora Pots Game one time + get 10 Bombs from Stone + get 1/4 heart damage from leaves, Go to South Bay Owl, Get 5 Bombs, Enter GBT (110R) (20B) (15C)
Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip with Bomb Staircase + 2 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flip, Kill Gyorg + 1/2 Heart damage from Gyorg, Get 5 Bombs from pot (17B) (12C)
Get back to GBFF, Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp with new Strat, ISG-ISS up to Snowhead Temple, Blow up last Snowball while Sliding up to Temple (11B) (4C)
Block Skip, Bomb Long Jump Strat with HISS from Bomb to blow up ice enemy, Scarecrow Song Skip, Beat Wizrobe with 2 Arrows and 2 Deku Sticks, Get Fire Arrows, Hookshot to Torch (7B) (4C)
3 Bomb Hover + 1 Bombchu Hover to Snowballs, Bomb + Fire Arrow + 1/2 damage from Bomb, Strategy to Blow Up Snowballs (3B) (3C)
Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip, Kill Goth by ISS over to perfect shoot position (0B) (0C)
Get 5 Bombs from plant, Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus + 10 Bombs, Warp to Ikana, Pull out Bomb while walking to plant, Get 5 Bombs, ISS up to Stone Tower (19B) (20C)
Climb Stone Tower with Mega Flips, enter ST (9B) (13C)
Bomb Staircase + Sidehop strategy past Sun Block, Get small key and minimize Magic Meter, so you can only use 4 Fire Arrows anymore (7B) (9C)
Bomb Staircase + Zora Grab Trick past Sun Block, Get 10 Bombs from enemys + 3/4 Heart Damage from enemy, Recoil Flips in Updraft Room, Kill Garo's Master with 2 Deku Sticks and 3 jumpslashes, Death Warp (12B) (6C)
Play SoS, Inverted Stone Tower with Mega Flip, Bomb Long Jump past first room, Boss Key Skip, Kill Twimmold with Fire Arrow Strat (5B) (1C)
Warp to CT, Use new strat for Clock Tower early, SS to Kid, Kick ass of Majora's Mask, EPIC WIN (1B) (0C)
We'll try to get it to work but it doesn't change anything on the general route. It's just that if we can make it work bosses will go down a little faster, if we can't they won't...
And we only get 4 Deku sticks. We can use sticks with 3 bosses, which means even if we get the infinite stick to work we would need those 4 sticks anyway. (you allways have to have one stick left to be able to swing them)
So I'm not gonna go through the whole thread to check but I assume you guys know about changing directions while bumbchu hovering yes? Maybe it could be used to save time (bomb fuses) when you have to hover next to a wall?
ahhhhhh, swordless is going to hate me now :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n596eH-uhwI
I simply had to do this, sry
I tryed some figure out some new speed tricks.
1. HISS past last snowball. should be quicker and works with bomb as well
2. damage ISS in bridge room. I have a strategy, that should work with bomb as well.
3. Mega Flip past gap with 2 explosives. using a bomb hover in the beginning made this possible
4. the only way to manipulate goth is rolling over to him. he stands still, when you roll
I'll correct the TAS route later
SL, a suggestion for the first cycle:
Since we only do one and a half runs through Termina Field we should have quite some time left untill 12 o'clock. So you can just get rupees from the bushes past the NCT entrance and go back there without loosing time. That gives you 36 bushes, so you won't have to kill yourself over the luck manipulation and it reduces the time we have to wait for 12 o'clock, so it's a win win situation. ^^
Btw. do you think you will restart soon and are we going to see WIPs or are you not going to give those out this time around?
As far as I can see you are not doing it like we are going to do it in the TAS. You don't get the bomb drop in the beginning and you don't mega hover over to the snowballs from the bridge across from them.
But on it's own this is a very nice TAS. ^^
Grunz: I'm not bothered at all. It's good to have something to compare to when I actually TAS that part. ;)
Slowking: That's an excellent idea about the rupees. And yes, I'll be posting regular WIPs, at least until a certain point, maybe halfway through or something. I'll be starting it soon, maybe tonight.
EDIT: Grunz: I noticed your number of deku sticks didn't go down on the first three hits in the Wizrobe battle. Does this mean I won't have to collect as many sticks in Woodfall?
EDIT 2: I wonder if we could set up a superslide right before killing Goht, so that we could roll into the bomb right before the last arrow hit and superslide over to the mask during the cutscene. No idea if this will work, it's just a theory. We should look into it, though.
we don't mega hover over to the snowballs
that's a million times slower and costs more explosive
Well if you hookshot yourself to the torch that is to the right of te torch you use to hookshot yourself up there and megaflip from there it should save explosives and not take that much longer. You could than use the gained explosives to gain speed elsewhere. For example you could get one less bomb drop in GB and/or use a bombchu instead of a bom in the bridge room to do the recoil flip.
Swordless Link wrote:
Slowking: That's an excellent idea about the rupees. And yes, I'll be posting regular WIPs, at least until a certain point, maybe halfway through or something. I'll be starting it soon, maybe tonight.
That's good to hear. ^^
EDIT: Grunz: I noticed your number of deku sticks didn't go down on the first three hits in the Wizrobe battle. Does this mean I won't have to collect as many sticks in Woodfall?
As far as I can see his Deku sticks allways go down when he uses them. When they don't go down he uses the sword and swings the sticks around just for show.
Maybe well get the infinite Deku stick to work, but even then we will need 4 sticks and that's the number you are going to collect in woodfall in any case.
EDIT 2: I wonder if we could set up a superslide right before killing Goht, so that we could roll into the bomb right before the last arrow hit and superslide over to the mask during the cutscene. No idea if this will work, it's just a theory. We should look into it, though.
That would certainly be very cool.
Edit:
Can you see what Link is holding here: http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/wizrobe_infinite.jpg :D
I'm not exactly sure how I got it to work. I have two theories:
1. I hit the platform wizrobe stands on and after that (with the same swing) wizrobe so the stick stays.
2. I get frozen shortly after the stick breaks and thus the broken stick stays.
Well no matter how it happened, it shows that it's possible. And with Garo Master and ans the 2nd or 3rd Majora Phase it should be even easier, since you can manipulate them to stand near a wall and then just use the strat I've shown in the video I uploaded to youtube. ^^
Edit:
Got it working again, this time by being frozen shortly after breaking the stick: http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/wizrobe_infinite2.jpg
hmm, getting frozen cost some time, but it allows you to skip one wizrobe cycle, what should be 1-2 seconds faster, but if I think about it again, it takes some time until wizrobe shoots the ice spirit at you, which eliminates all the saved time again ;)
another idea:
use a bomb to activate the infinite deku stick trick.
if the bomb way works, it gives us also a damage of 1/2 hearts, what could be pretty useful :/
we'll have one bomb for garo's master for sure and if it works, I'll simply create a route, that leaves us with this extra bomb for the stick trick
now on to the superslide trick:
it depens on how much time a arrow needs to reach goth.
we'll have to roll 37 frames before the explosion and we need 5-6 frames to take the bow away and turn around. so if we arrows needs more than 42 frames, it should work
then again, we don't know, if the cutscence stops the superslide
we'll have to test this
Swordless, you can simply start the TAS now. We still need to optimize the Ranch-GBT-Snowhead section a little bit, but we'll do that soon
hmm, getting frozen cost some time, but it allows you to skip one wizrobe cycle, what should be 1-2 seconds faster, but if I think about it again, it takes some time until wizrobe shoots the ice spirit at you, which eliminates all the saved time again ;)
Well as long as it doesn't loose us time it's still good. We need to use the infinite Deku Stick if we want to use sticks in the Garo Master and Majora battle, since we just won't have enough otherwise.
Ok, I and Slowking figured out, that we're able to activate infinte deku stick with bomb damage, what allows us to beat the mini bosses a lot quicker
here's the new route from ranch to the end of the game:
HISS to bush, Megaflip of the blob down the ledge, ISS to other Bush, Get 20 Bombs + 20 Rupees, HISS of red blob to Milk Road, ISG-ISS to Rock, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, 3 Bombchu Hovers, SS to Epona, Get Bottle (20R) (17B) (17C)
Warp to GB, Swim to Pirate's Fortress, Mega Flip past Gap, Get Hookshot, Zora Egg, Recoil Flip with Bomb to second Zora Egg, Deposit Eggs (14B) (16C)
Back to Pirate's Fortress, Skip Pirate Battle with 4 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flips, Skip second Pirate Battle with Recoil Flip from Bomb, Deposit Eggs, Get rest of Zora Eggs, Learn NWBN (7B) (15C)
Play Zora Pots Game one time + get 10 Bombs from Stone + get 1/4 heart damage from leaves, Go to South Bay Owl, Get 5 Bombs, Enter GBT (110R) (20B) (15C)
Mega Flip past Gap, HISS, Boss Key Skip with Bomb Staircase + 1 Bomb Hover + 2 Mega Flips, Kill Gyorg, Get 5 Bombs from pot (17B) (11C)
Get back to GBFF, Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp with new Strat, ISG-ISS up to Snowhead Temple (12B) (3C)
Block Skip, Bomb Long Jump Strat with Damage ISS from Bomb to blow up ice enemy, Scarecrow Song Skip, 1 Recoil flip with Bomb + Recoil Flip with Bombchu, Beat Wizrobe Infinite Deku Stick from Bomb Damage, Get Fire Arrows, Hookshot to Torch (8B) (2C)
Hookshot other Torch, Mega Flip past Gap, HISS strategy with Bomb for Snowballs (5B) (1C)
Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip, Kill Goth, HISS over to Warp Zone (1B) (0C)
Get 5 Bombs from plant, Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus + 10 Bombs, Warp to Ikana, Pull out Bomb while walking to plant, Get 5 Bombs, ISS up to Stone Tower (20B) (20C)
Climb Stone Tower with Mega Flips, enter ST (10B) (13C)
Bomb Staircase + Sidehop strategy past Sun Block, Get small key and minimize Magic Meter, so you can only use 4 Fire Arrows anymore (8B) (9C)
Bomb Staircase + Zora Grab Trick past Sun Block, Get 10 Bombs from enemys + 3/4 Heart Damage from enemy, Recoil Flips in Updraft Room, Kill Garo's Master with Infinte Deku Stick from Bomb, Death Warp (12B) (6C)
Inverted Stone Tower with Mega Flip, Bomb Long Jump past first room, Boss Key Skip, Kill Twimmold with Fire Arrow Strat (5B) (1C)
Warp to CT, Use new strat for Clock Tower early (2B) (0C)
SS to Kid, Kill 1+2 Cycle of Majora normally, Kill 3rd Cycle of Majora with Infinite Deku Stick from Bomb (0B) (0C)
Changes compared to old route:
- HISS before GBT Boss Key Skip
- Different Bridge Room Strat
- Recoil Flip with Bombchu over to Wizrobe
- Wizrobe with Infinite Deku Stick
- Mega Flip over to Snowballs
- HISS through last Snowball
- No more damage from Gyorg
- Mega Flip past last Snowhead Temple gap with less Explosives
- Garo's Master with Infinite Deku Stick
- 3rd Cycle of Majora with Infinite Deku Stick
This should be the best possible route with all the current tricks we have at the moment ;)
Here's the first cycle route made by Slowking:
get 2r at the very beginning on your sidehop route to the wooden stumps (2r)
hear grandmas storys twice and dance with the scarecrow, deposit the 2r
get to ECT, do a full run through termina field to WCT (101r)
get to ECT, get fairy, do half a run through termina field to NCT, get 99r from 36 bushes, get magic, deposit the rupees (200r)
get to clock tower, wait for 12 O'clock, get ocarina and SoT, timetravel
about goht... why do you have to kill him with an arrow? if you (HI)SS over to him couldn't the sword deal damage? and if it has to be an arrow maybe it's faster to shoot while backflipping than to shoot in 1st person.
Ok just for convinience I'll copy the routs together. I think we should allways have a complete copy of the route. And hey we got it before page 100! XD
First Cycle
get 2r at the very beginning on your sidehop route to the wooden stumps (2r)
hear grandmas storys twice and dance with the scarecrow, deposit the 2r
get to ECT, do a full run through termina field to WCT (101r)
get to ECT, get fairy, do half a run through termina field to NCT, get 99r from 36 bushes, get magic, deposit the rupees (200r)
get to clock tower, wait for 12 O'clock, get ocarina and SoT, timetravel
Second Cycle
Hit CT Owl, Withdraw 200R, Buy Bomb Bag + 20 Chus (70R) (20B) (20C)
ISG-ISS to Fence, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Hover over Fence with Bomb and Chu, SS to GB (17B) (19C)
ISS to Water, Hit Owl, Get Zora Mask, Leaver Slide to South Bay (16B) (19C)
Flying Zora to Fountain, Blow up Rock with Chu, Play SoDT (at least somewhere around here), New Fairy Fountain Strat (12B) (10C)
SS to Owl, Hit Owl, 5 Bombs from Plant, Recoil Flip with Bomb down to River, Swim to Swamp, Go to Lost Woods, Get 10 Rupees, ISS from Bombchu, Get Bottle (15B) (9C)
ISS to Octo, Sidehops to Deku Palace, ISG-ISS past Deku Guards, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Use old Zora Jump Strat, Get Sonata + SoS (11B) (9C)
Get 3 Deku sticks from Dekus and 1 Deku Stick from pot on the way to Woodfall Temple, Enter Temple
Mega Flips past Gap, Kill Lizarfos with Jumpslash Strat, Get Bow (9B) (8C)
Recoil Flip to get OoB, 8 Mega Flips, Kill Odolwa (1B) (0C)
Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus, Leave to GB (0R) (1B) (20C)
HISS to bush, Megaflip of the blob down the ledge, ISS to other Bush, Get 20 Bombs + 20 Rupees, HISS of red blob to Milk Road, ISG-ISS to Rock, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, 3 Bombchu Hovers, SS to Epona, Get Bottle (20R) (17B) (17C)
Warp to GB, Swim to Pirate's Fortress, Mega Flip past Gap, Get Hookshot, Zora Egg, Recoil Flip with Bomb to second Zora Egg, Deposit Eggs (14B) (16C)
Back to Pirate's Fortress, Skip Pirate Battle with 4 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flips, Skip second Pirate Battle with Recoil Flip from Bomb, Deposit Eggs, Get rest of Zora Eggs, Learn NWBN (7B) (15C)
Play Zora Pots Game one time + get 10 Bombs from Stone + get 1/4 heart damage from leaves, Go to South Bay Owl, Get 5 Bombs, Enter GBT (110R) (20B) (15C)
Mega Flip past Gap, HISS, Boss Key Skip with Bomb Staircase + 1 Bomb Hover + 2 Mega Flips, Kill Gyorg, Get 5 Bombs from pot (17B) (11C)
Get back to GBFF, Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp with new Strat, ISG-ISS up to Snowhead Temple (12B) (3C)
Block Skip, Bomb Long Jump Strat with Damage ISS from Bomb to blow up ice enemy, Scarecrow Song Skip, 1 Recoil flip with Bomb + Recoil Flip with Bombchu, Beat Wizrobe Infinite Deku Stick from Bomb Damage, Get Fire Arrows, Hookshot to Torch (8B) (2C)
Hookshot other Torch, Mega Flip past Gap, HISS strategy with Bomb for Snowballs (5B) (1C)
Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip, Kill Goth, HISS over to Warp Zone (1B) (0C)
Get 5 Bombs from plant, Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus + 10 Bombs, Warp to Ikana, Pull out Bomb while walking to plant, Get 5 Bombs, ISS up to Stone Tower (20B) (20C)
Climb Stone Tower with Mega Flips, enter ST (10B) (13C)
Bomb Staircase + Sidehop strategy past Sun Block, Get small key and minimize Magic Meter, so you can only use 4 Fire Arrows anymore (8B) (9C)
Bomb Staircase + Zora Grab Trick past Sun Block, Get 10 Bombs from enemys + 3/4 Heart Damage from enemy, Recoil Flips in Updraft Room, Kill Garo's Master with Infinte Deku Stick from Bomb, Death Warp (12B) (6C)
Inverted Stone Tower with Mega Flip, Bomb Long Jump past first room, Boss Key Skip, Kill Twimmold with Fire Arrow Strat (5B) (1C)
Warp to CT, Use new strat for Clock Tower early (2B) (0C)
SS to Kid, Kill 1+2 Cycle of Majora normally, Kill 3rd Cycle of Majora with Infinite Deku Stick from Bomb (0B) (0C)
bkDJ wrote:
about goht... why do you have to kill him with an arrow? if you (HI)SS over to him couldn't the sword deal damage? and if it has to be an arrow maybe it's faster to shoot while backflipping than to shoot in 1st person.
I'm to 99,9999999999% sure that Goth just runs away when you slide over to him. But even if he didn't, a jumpslash does 2 points of damage and so do arrows. So what would be the point?
