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Posted: 12/18/2004 7:20 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
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Okay, so I got a working version now. The last boss is two seconds faster than the last version, but it looks ugly (i.e. I take damage and I don't end the movie as quickly as possible, even though I end the level as soon as possible). I want to fix this, but it all depends on manipulating random (where the little heads decide to fly and shoot), and I'm not particulary fond of that. If I can't fix it then I'll probably submit the sloppy version, because I reaaaaaally don't want to drag this out over christmas. Tomorrow will tell. Over and out.
Posted: 12/19/2004 12:20 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Good luck. Looking forward to it.
Posted: 12/19/2004 3:17 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
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Done. Get it at the submissions page. http://tasvideos.org/queue.cgi?id=479 I was unable to fix the last level to my complete satisfaction. :( Still, it's two seconds faster than last time.
Posted: 12/19/2004 10:56 PM
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xou
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 118
Location: france
anytime if you need webspace :) gonna watch this new version very soon ! ( hehe really like your runs on this game )
hello world !
Posted: 12/22/2004 2:52 AM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
In a fit of boredom I mapped out the entire game, in case anyone was curious.
Posted: 12/22/2004 3:15 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Wow! Nice work Nifboy. I suppose planing would get easy the next round then?
Posted: 12/22/2004 6:15 AM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
nifboy = teh rox. Much thanks! So the absolute longest possible path would be...(btw, ones I'm not sure about are in parentheses) - Blue Lake Woods 1 - BLW 2 - Highwater Pass 1 - HP 2 - Elsewhere 1 - Under Skull Mountain 1 - USM 2 - Elsewhere 2 - USM 3 - Isle of the Lion Lord - Hills of the Warrior 1 - HotW 2 - Elsewhere 3 - Windy City - Sinister Sewers - The Crystal Crags 1 - Elsewhere 4 - The CC 2 - Dragonspike - The Pinnacle - Hidden Canyon - Stormwalk Mountain - Shishkaboss - The Whispering Woods 1 - Elsewhere 5 - The WW 2 - Devil's Marsh 1 - The Caged Beasts - Elsewhere 6 - DM 2 - Knight's Isle - Whale Grotto - Hoverboard Beach - Pyramids of Peril (Elsewhere 8) (Pyramids of Peril) - Madmaze Mountain - The Forbidden Tombs - Stairway to Oblivion (- Elsewhere 9) (- Stairway to Oblivion) - The Deadly Skyscrapers - Skydragon Castle 1 - Skydragon Castle 2 - Elsewhere 10 - Coral Blade Grotto - Boomerang Bosses - Woods of Despair 1 - WoD 2... Now is where things get interesting...is it longer to do Forced Entry + Cliffs of Illusion, or Valley of Life + Black Pit (or VoL + Elsewhere 11 + VoL + BP if that's cool)? Anyway, both these paths lead to Lion's Den, so going on from there: - Lion's Den - Wind Castles 1 - Elsewhere 12 - WC 2 - Blizzard Mountain - Frosty Doom - Elsewhere 14? (not sure what to number this one) - Bloody Swamp - The Nightmare Peaks 1 - Elsewhere 15 - The NP 2 - Bagel Brothers - Diamond Edge... Again, interesting possiblities here: Elsewhere 16? + Elsewhere 18 + Scorpion Isle + Hills Have Eyes + Elsewhere 20?, or Elsewhere 17? + Towers of Blood + Elsewhere 19? + The Crypt (+ Elsewhere 21 + The Crypt?). From there it follows: - Alien Twilight - Secrets in the Rocks - Elsewhere 22 - Tunnels Beneath the Woods - Elsewhere 23 - Hills of Forever - Monster Island (Elsewhere 24) (Monster Island) - Ice God's Vengeance - Beneath the Twisted Hills - Elsewhere 25 - The Shimmering Caves (Elsewhere 26) (The Shimmering Caves) - Elsewhere 27 - Alien Isle - The Land Below - Elsewhere 28 - Sky Fortress (Elsewhere 29) (Sky Fortress) - The Final Marathon - Plethora Alright then, one thing I'm not sure about. The reason I have some of these in parentheses...with the levels that have an Elsewhere that takes you back to the same level, can you just keep playing these two levels infinitely? And if so, should these Elsewheres be played at all? And feel free to point out if I made any other mistakes there. See, I actually want to see this run, and may even subject myself to the insanity if nobody else is willing, hence why I'm trying to get all this figured out... -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 12/22/2004 6:24 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
So I suppose the longest route level wise would be: 1: Blue Lake Woods I 2: Blue Lake Woods II 3: Highwater Pass I 4: Highwater Pass II 5: Elsewhere 6: Under Skull Mountain I 7: Under Skull Mountain II 8: Isle of the Lion Lord 9: Hills of the Warrior I 10: Hills of the Warrior II 11: Elsewhere 12: Windy City 13: Sinister Sewers 14: The Crystal Crags I 15: Elsewhere 16: The Crystal Crags II 17: Dragonspike 18: The Pinnacle 19: Hidden Canyon 20: Stormwalk Mountain 21: The Wispering Woods I 22: Elsewhere 23: The Wispering Woods II 24: Devil's Marsh I 25: The Caged Beasts 26: Elsewhere 27: Devil's Marsh II 28: Knight's Isle 29: Whale Grotto 30: Hoverboard Beach 31: Pyramids of Peril 32: Elsewhere 33: Pyramids of Peril 34: Madmaze Mountain 35: The Forbidden Tombs 36: Stairway to Oblivion 37: Elsewhere 38: Stairway to Oblivion 39: The Deadly Skyscrapers 40: Skydragon Castle I 41: Skydragon Castle II 42: Elsewhere 43: Coral Blade Grotto 44: Boomerang Bosses 45: Woods of Despair I 46: Woods of Despair II 47: The Valley of Life 48: Elsewhere 49: The Valley of Life 50: The Black Pit 51: Lion's Den 52: Wind Castles I 53: Elsewhere 54: Wind Castles II 55: Blizzard Mountain 56: Frosty Doom 57: Elsewhere 58: Bloody Swamp 59: Nightmare Peaks I 60: Elsewhere 61: Nightmare Peaks II 62: Bagel Brothers 63: Diamond Edge 64: Elsewhere 65: Towers of Blood 66: Elsewhere 67: The Crypt 68: Elsewhere 69: The Crypt 70: Alien Twilight 71: Secrets in the Rocks 72: Tunnels Beneath the Woods 73: Elsewhere 74: Hills of Forever 75: Monster Island 76: Elsewhere 77: Monster Island 78: Ice God's Vengeance 79: Beneath the Twisted Hills 80: Elsewhere 81: The Shimmering Caves 82: Elsewhere 83: The Shimmering Caves 84: Elsewhere 85: Alien Isle 86: The Land Below 87: Elsewhere 88: Sky Fortress 89: Elsewhere 90: Sky Fortress 91: The Final Marathon 92: Plethora then?
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 12/22/2004 6:27 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
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Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
Josh the FunkDOC wrote:
Alright then, one thing I'm not sure about. The reason I have some of these in parentheses...with the levels that have an Elsewhere that takes you back to the same level, can you just keep playing these two levels infinitely? And if so, should these Elsewheres be played at all?
/me points up at his list. I made that one to point at the path featuring the most levels without using the same exit more than once.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 12/22/2004 4:30 PM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
I knew I missed a warp. There's a teleporter from Forced Entry through an Elsewhere to the Cliffs of Illusion. (edit: fixed map now) Except for the one in the Crypt, all of the recursive Elsewhere loops I can recall go backwards. The helmets might be useful, but there are some levels it's just not worth it. (Edit: The Elsewhere at Sky Fortress leads immediately to the other teleporter in the level, which leads to Final Marathon) Monster Island is particularly annoying, because it's a monster-filled level with two teleporters at the end. Choose the wrong one, and you gotta do the whole level over again. There are other levels like it (Stairway to Oblivion comes to mind) but Monster Island sticks out.
Posted: 12/22/2004 8:00 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
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Joined: 9/11/2004
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Well, that means that 46: Woods of Despair II 47: The Valley of Life 48: Elsewhere 49: The Valley of Life 50: The Black Pit 51: Lion's Den can become 46: Woods of Despair II 47: Forced Entry 48: Elsewhere 49: Cliffs of Illusion 50: Lion's Den and still feature the same number of different levels.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 12/23/2004 11:19 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
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Location: Sweden
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Wow, nice map there nifboy. I was wondering where you went, but now I know I guess. I'll doublecheck it when I get back to where my map is. One idea might be to number all the elsewheres, that might make it a little easier talking about. EDIT: Nifboy, can I stick that map in somewhere in the Kid Chameleon Tricks page or some related page? I think it would be a very worthy addition. You'll get credit of course. Josh wrote: >Now is where things get interesting...is it longer to do Forced Entry + Cliffs of Illusion, or Valley of Life + Black Pit (or VoL + Elsewhere 11 + VoL + BP if that's cool)? Anyway, both these paths lead to Lion's Den, so going on from there: Depends on how you mean longer... FE + CoE are longer timewise than VoL + BP (around 40 seconds) but obviously the same number of levels. But if you're taking the longest path (most number of levels), does it mean that you should do the longest levels as well?
Posted: 12/27/2004 7:37 AM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Hey guys, I already hate this. I made a test run of BLW1, ended up being 16 frames slower than Truncated I believe. So I went back, made a state at the start of the movie, loaded it, and improved the intro + title screen. When I played this one back, it just sat there at the title screen. So I picked "record new movie" and overwrote that one, did the same things, and it desynced again. Do I just delete the file itself and make a new one, and hope for the best? And am I going to have to constantly make backups? With FCEU I've never had this stuff happen to me so I'm pretty much a noob...any help here would be appreciated! Also, an actual game-related question: Since I can afford to take one hit in either BLW 1 or 2 in order to avoid a no-hit bonus, would it be best to do so by running through that one monster in BLW1 that you can't afford to bounce off of? There doesn't appear to be anywhere in BLW2 where getting hit would save time within the level itself... Thanks, Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 12/27/2004 9:00 AM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
Truncated wrote:
EDIT: Nifboy, can I stick that map in somewhere in the Kid Chameleon Tricks page or some related page? I think it would be a very worthy addition. You'll get credit of course.
Go right ahead.
Posted: 12/27/2004 5:29 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
OK, figured out the problem. It seems that if you do the intro + title screen too fast, the movie will always desync. 3 frames below optimal is the best you can do... Have had no problems since then, thankfully. And I answered my own questions by playing...however, I have a new one that has me stuck. How do you fit through the wall at the start of BLW2 without losing speed? I'm 13 frames slower than Truncated in this level as of now, and this is the only flaw I could find; I always run into the upper or lower part of the wall before landing, which slows me to a halt and forces me to start accelerating again once I land. Am I supposed to delay a few frames before moving forward, or is there actually a way to do it without stopping? Thanks, Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 12/27/2004 7:01 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
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Location: Sweden
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Hm, that sounds strange. I've actually never had any descynchs with this game, it runs like a clock. I thought I did the intro as fast as possible, at least I didn't willfully delay it. Are you running the same version as me? That is (U) on Gens 9c? You don't have to make a lot of backups but it's a good idea. I make backups constantly, every time I play back to see how things look. Beginning of BLW2, just hit the hole straight on, there are a few pixels of leeway. There shouldn't be any need to slow down, just jump at the right frame and hold the jump button for the correct number of frames. I guess it's just a matter of time before you start beating my times. Hmpf. Good luck in any case.
Posted: 12/27/2004 7:08 PM
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xou
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 118
Location: france
I had no problem watching truncated's record with gens_movie_test9a and Kid Chameleon (JUE) [!].zip ! But dunno much about that problem you've got
hello world !
Posted: 12/27/2004 8:16 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Yep, I'm using 9c and the same rom. And the intro, even as suboptimal as I had to do it, was still 7 frames faster than in your movie; IIRC you were too slow at the title screen (best way is to press start once, wait 2 frames, then press it again). I also beat your BLW1 time by 66 frames, almost all of which came from taking that hit I mentioned; I am counting the lack of no-hit bonus in the time saved here. Of course, since you couldn't do that in your route this is irrelevant; I think I only improved something like 2-3 frames aside from that. Thing is, with BLW2, I always tried to hold B for the longest possible time and make it through. So maybe that isn't possible, eh...back to work. EDIT: BLW2 done, 3 frames faster than you. I'm impressed you did so well without frame advance, seriously...I can't live without it anymore! Thanks a lot, Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 12/28/2004 8:04 AM
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Truncated
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>BLW2 done, 3 frames faster than you. I'm impressed you did so well without frame advance, seriously...I can't live without it anymore! This whole thing will probably end with me doing the first few levels with frame advance over again, just to gain those extra 3 frames per level. :P But that will have to wait until I get a new computer, because I am NOT carrying that thing back and forward from campus anymore just to do this. Tell me if you want more tips and stuff. I'll be glad to help you.
Posted: 12/29/2004 1:11 AM
Post subject: New to Kid Chameleon
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Joyleopard
Joined: 12/29/2004
Posts: 5
Hi! I just received Kid Chameleon for Christmas and I'm so stuck! Sorry for such a simple question but how do you get out of "Highwater Pass 1"? After I bounce on the rubber blocks up to the ledge. I kill the monster and find all the blocks. Then I go farther along and when I climb up the walkway and see the tunnel going up there's one block that I can climb up on and when I try to go farther I land back on that block and smash it and then I fall and then I'm stuck!!! I've tried clicking on the links to see everyone's runs that they've posted but I'm unable to download them. Has anyone burned them onto a cd? Can I make a deal with anyone for a copy? Please help a newbie! Joy
Posted: 12/29/2004 2:54 AM
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xou
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 118
Location: france
i just wonder if its serious ... ! :]
hello world !
Posted: 12/29/2004 3:22 PM
Post subject: The Stuck one!
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Joyleopard
Joined: 12/29/2004
Posts: 5
If you're referring to my post yes I'm serious! Sorry I'm not as up on Kid Chameleon that you all are but I need help! So if anyone could please just let me know how to move to the next level I would sooooooooo appreciate it! Thanks
Posted: 12/29/2004 4:51 PM
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Truncated
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>I just received Kid Chameleon for Christmas Uh-huh... right. It sound like you're joking but I'll make an effort. Movie page here: http://tasvideos.org/movies.cgi?id=273 AVI via bittorrent: http://tracker.tasvideos.org/kidchameleon-timeattackv2-truncated.avi.torrent
Posted: 12/29/2004 8:06 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Just redid first two levels. Compared to my last attempt, this one saved an extra 3 frames in BLW1 (better jumping in a couple spots), and 7 in BLW2 (a couple little things, and abuse of an interesting quirk in this game's physics). I would explain the physics thing in further detail, but I need to go somewhere now... -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 12/29/2004 10:47 PM
Post subject: Thank you!
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Joyleopard
Joined: 12/29/2004
Posts: 5
Yep it's for real. I just got it for Christmas. Thank you for link that helps a lot. Joy
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