right at the end, couldnt you super slide from mega/super flip to speed into the loading zone?
sorry if its already been mentioned, or theres a reason for it, im a n00b
You could yes, but his video was meant to demonstrate optimal hovers, not a frame perfect ascent into the stone tower. Doing so would require manipulating the fire keese as well so they don't get in the way, which would be very frustrating.
Ah, yes, that...someone at SDA already beat you to the punch. You'll also notice I forgot to include actually getting the Great Fairy Sword after Stone Tower.
right at the end, couldnt you super slide from mega/super flip to speed into the loading zone?
sorry if its already been mentioned, or theres a reason for it, im a n00b
nope, ESS doesn't work here for some reason. you have to be completely out of Z-targetting mode while backflipping in order to do a ESS after mega flip
link seemed to be out of Z-targetting mode in my stone tower climbing video, but he wasn't.
There are 2 types of Z-targetting:
1. Things that show a yellow targetting-sign. When you target such a thing you can move freely around while standing in midar, but you can't backflip/sidehop or use your shield.
Example: Enemys
2. Things that show a green targetting sign. When you target such a thing you can only move a little bit to the right/left while standing in midair, but you can go on with bombchu hovering. There's a trick to move completely around after targetting a green sign, too ;)
Example: Bombchu
I hope this helps to understand everything ;)
Like AKA already said, the only way to do a ESS in the end of my stone tower climbing video would be targetting one of the fire keeses (those have a yellow sign) at the last mega flip.
Ncice one. But at the end of the GBT key skip Link falls straight down for quite some time. Are you sure you can't reduce the explosives a little by taking out a megaflip (and if needed replace it with a normal flip)?
Ncice one. But at the end of the GBT key skip Link falls straight down for quite some time. Are you sure you can't reduce the explosives a little by taking out a megaflip (and if needed replace it with a normal flip)?
there's invisible water all around this area, so I have to use that many hovers not to fall into it ;)
that is also the reason, why the old version of the GBT skip used so many hovers.
without the invisible water, we could do the new version probably with only one mega flip ;)
While doing my Stone Tower Climbing TAS I noticed, that sideways mega flips reach the same distance as normal ones, so instead of hovering in a diagonal line, we simply use sideways mega flips. this can save some explosive at certain hovers.
with this I was finally able to do stone tower boss key skip with 9 explosives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPDtEjZ80ho&feature=channel_page
While doing my Stone Tower Climbing TAS I noticed, that sideways mega flips reach the same distance as normal ones, so instead of hovering in a diagonal line, we simply use sideways mega flips. this can save some explosive at certain hovers.
with this I was finally able to do stone tower boss key skip with 9 explosives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPDtEjZ80ho&feature=channel_page
Yeah we get it, you are good. XD
Joking aside: Have you planed to break anything else or an idea what else could be broken?
stone tower boss key skip, snowhead boss key skip and great bay temple boss key skip are very unlikely to be improved now, because I had to search years for those OoBs and they are all very close to the boss room loading zone.
What we need now is a improved woodfall boss key skip. 24 explosives is a lot and this would force us to buy extra bombchus and get more ruppes, so this boss key skip isn't really worth.
the boss key skip method with clipping OoB with the mini boss I mentioned a while back could be useful now.
GBT boss key skip uses 4 bombchus, woodfall with mini boss clip probably 4-5, so we could this could perfectly work with our current route.
after we have beaten ST and snowhead, we buy 20 bombchus and go to pirate's fortress.
we would use 11 or 5 bombchus(depens on which method we use) to skip the last pirate battle, then we do GBT with 4 bombchus and finally woodfall part 2 with 5 bombchus.
let's think about, how many bombchus we need for our current route:
1. 20 bombchus for GB early, GB to Ikana Wron Warp, Deku Palace, wodfall Temple Part 1 and Ranch early
2. 20 bombchus Pirate's Fortress Part 1, Wrong Warp to Snowhead and beat Snowhead
3. 20 bombchus for Climbing ST and beating it
4. 20 bombchus for Pirate's Fortress Part 2, GBT and Woodfall
wow, we have to buy bombchus only 4 times, although we use the fairy fountain wrong warp twice and use 4 boss key skips O_O
mega flip kicks ass!
We have every possible wrong warp discovered (petrie tested with debug rom), the temple are pretty much broken to its limits, we can get to every area early and we have a mega flip, so we the any% category is nearly pushed to its limits now.
I'll try to find a better woodfall OoB tomorrow. That's the last thing left to discover
What we need now is a improved woodfall boss key skip. 24 explosives is a lot and this would force us to buy extra bombchus and get more ruppes, so this boss key skip isn't really worth.
the boss key skip method with clipping OoB with the mini boss I mentioned a while back could be useful now.
Yeah but if we need the hookshot to get OOB there it won't be worth it. Then you can just get the Bosskey and go the normal way. Without the hookshot it might be worth it, since it probably makes not splitting woodfall viable...
MrGrunz wrote:
1. 20 bombchus for GB early, GB to Ikana Wron Warp, Deku Palace, wodfall Temple Part 1 and Ranch early
You don't need Chus at the Deku Palace. Petrie did it all with staircasing bombs.
Btw. might you be able to megaflip through the rock blocking the milk road? That could save 2-3 explosives, a little time and ofcourse look really cool. XD
2. 20 bombchus Pirate's Fortress Part 1, Wrong Warp to Snowhead and beat Snowhead
3. 20 bombchus for Climbing ST and beating it
4. 20 bombchus for Pirate's Fortress Part 2, GBT and Woodfall
Yeah those might work. Though you'll be pretty low on Chus in Snowhead. You might have to bomb and shoot the snowballs after all. :p
so we the any% category is nearly pushed to its limits now.
>.< Every time you say that something major is discovered. :D
I spend 2 hours in woodfall yet and there's nothing
there are a lot clipable ceiling, I was able to clip through with recoil flip + levitation, but clipping through them is only possible with levitation. mega flip doesn't work :(
boss key skip with hookshot should be also worth. clipping OoB in that room and doing 4 mega flips is still faster than beating gecko, opening the chest, going out of the room, flying over to the other side of the room, shooting a torch with a fire arrow and going through the last room, I think.
I doubt, that we will discover a useful trick next time, but let's see
what we could try, would be woodfall temple without sonata of awaking. you know, everything, that appears in a room or area after doing something is already somewhere on the map. that means, that every boss and a few other things are already somewhere on the map, although they didn't appear yet.
the woodfall temple for example is under the woodfall area, but there's one problem:
the area is a water area. the map is made off water, so there's water everywhere under the area, so no way to get over to temple. maybe a bottle dive to clip through the ground over the entrance of the temple. it's definately worth trying it
Hmm if everything is already on the maps somewhere shouldn't the Turtle with it's loading zone be on there somewhere? That thing would be far more usefull than woodfall...
To get to woodfall you have to get to the Deku palace anyway. Those 2 minutes getting the song are probably allways faster than gltiching in the temple somehow. That goes twice if you split woodfall.
Btw. I saw the temple under there myself, but I cant see it on tility of time. So the tool is less usefull than I thought...
before you've played new wave bossa nova the turtle is simply at the place, where the real turtle is. if you play the song, the turtle simply awakes and the loading zone appears.
the sleeping turtle is simply a normal thing on the map without a loading zone
Hmm but it is a completely different model. So either it is somewhere on that map or it's not. :D
But ofcourse that doesn't ahve anything to do with the loading zone.
Btw. I've thought about the route you listed above and I would change it up.
After the ranch I would do the whole pirates fortress and GBT.
The thing is we get 180r from the Zora bottle game. Since we do this twice that's 360r. Combined with the 210r from the first cycle that's probably more than we'll need. (if we really only need to refill 4 times it will cost us only 550r even if we refill bombs and not just Chus)
But if you do GBT as your last temple this money deosn't help you anymore. Besides you might even save a song of soaring if you do the temple directly after collecting the eggs...
think about it:
we need only 320 rupees for the whole run!
we get 270 in the first cycle and the another 90 rupees on the way to the GBT fountain ;)
so we have all the rupees, we need ;)
Afaik we get only 210r in the first cycle and it's probably faster to just get 360r from the Zora game than constantly going out of your way to get bomb drops...
A bomb drop only gives you 5b, so you won't have enough on your way in a lot of cases anyway.
btw. you forgot the bombbag that costs 50r.
we'll have to plan a completely new rupee route now
you can only play the zora pots game at day, what is another problem, but you right, I didn't think about bombs. we'll need a lot more now :/
tomorrow my latin school test will be over (yeha (: ) and then I'll test a few things
Well if we play the Zora game 4 times (and yeah we already discussed the problem that it only works at day a few pages back) we have more than enough money.
I'm pretty sure that's the fastest way to get money. A game lasts roughly 7 seconds, so 4 games are about 30 seconds. Plus the little detour you have to go it's about 1 minute for 360r. Even Light Arrows are slower.
The thing that it has to be day: Well we have to play the song of double time a few times. But since we come from the ranch (which is over at 5:15) before we do 2nd gerudo fortress and the 2x pinnacle rock it will be day anyway. ^^
The question in the end is if we get really by with the amount of explosives that MrGrunz said. If so I guess a few minor route changes are in order and SL is going to hate me for it, since it means changing up the first cycle again. ^^"
(I won't list the explosives needed or when to buy them, since that's not my expertise, just the general route and what the rupees amount to)
Cycle 1
Night of the last day:
- get Fairy in ECT
- do to full trips through Termina Field and deposit money (198r)
- go the normal way from ECT to NCT
- Get 2r from the bushes in NCT (200r)
- Get magic
- deposit 2r
- get OoT and play SoT
Cycle 2
- get into north bay and hit the owl
- play Zora bottle game 2x (380r)
- play Song of double time
- FFWW to Ikana
- Hit owl and swim to witches
- Get witches bottle
- Make your way to the Woodfall (swimming in shallow water should save time), on the way get SoA and SoS
- Hit owl and do woodfall1
- do ranch and get bottle
- get 4 eggs and the hookshot from the gerudo fortress
- get 3 eggs from pinnacle rock
- get New wave bossanova
- go to GBT and beat it. on the way there play the Zora game 2x (560r)
- FFWW from woodfall to Snowhead
- get in and beat Snowhead
- climb and beat stone tower
- do woodfall 2
Now if MrGrunz is right that we only have to refill 4 times we need 550r to complete the game. That means we even have 10r to spare at the end...
I don't remember there being so much free time on the night of the 3rd day of the first cycle. Is getting 2r from NCT at that time really better than 99 from ECT right away in the second cycle?
um, I think you may have miscalculated there
it costs 80r to refill bombchus. 4 refills means 320r, plus the bomb bag makes 370r. Unless you're suggesting we're going to be filling up bombs at the shop, too.
Yeah that's what I was suggesting. Since we are doing the mega hover a lot we'll have to have a lot more bombs than before and I don't think we can fill that need with bomb-drops on the way.
A second Zora game just costs 7 seconds, so I really don't see why it wasn't used in previous runs... It's by far the fastet way to make money.
Btw. ofcourse should we do it this way getting the 2r before first getting to CT would still be the fastest by far, but I guess that would take to much redoing...
contrary to whhat I said in my post above the second fastest way would probably be getting one from a chest in ECT after or before hearing grandmas story and one from the vase in the shop the scarecrow is in. This way you only have to go out of your way slightly and no screen transitions are wasted...
So if this route really proves to be the fastest here is the fastest way to do the first cycle (with a lot of redoing ^^" ):
- get 2r before getting to CT (right after the horror kid tranformes you)
- hear grandmas storys twice and dance with the scarecorw.
- deposit 2r
- do two runs through Termina field, get fairy in ECT on the way and deposit the 198r (200r) and get adault wallet for it.
- go from WCT to NCT the normal way and get magic
- get into the tower, get OoT and SoT and timetravel...
