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Posted: 12/24/2004 4:25 AM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
20 seconds counts for less than 0.5% of a 1:44:45 minute run. Someone can't beat TSA by just avoiding the blue mail, they'll also have to match him in all other parts of the game. Easier said than done.
Posted: 12/24/2004 11:53 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Yeah. I didn't say it was easy. :)
Posted: 12/25/2004 6:15 AM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
now that we've seen the legit run, it's time to continue work on the tool-assisted version. Is anyone willing to take on this project? A collective effort would work too provided there are enough people interested.
Posted: 12/25/2004 6:25 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Using it as a model, what changes would be made, other than no blue mail?
Posted: 12/25/2004 6:50 AM
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Fro_Jackson
Joined: 8/25/2004
Posts: 44
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
Blechy wrote:
Using it as a model, what changes would be made, other than no blue mail?
My guess would be more percise movement, and I imagine a lot more time would be saved from not getting hit, although the run by TSA was absolutely wonderful to watch : ) Also, with the possibility to manipulate what items one gets from defeated enemies, it could save a little bit of time picking up the items you need as you go, rather than going out of one's way to pick them up.
Posted: 12/25/2004 9:01 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I just meant for changes in path. Like, are there any things TSA avoids because they rely too much on luck(similar to the Legend of Zelda path he avoided), or something similar? It seems to me that the route is pretty solid...
Posted: 12/25/2004 9:05 AM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
just meant for changes in path. Like, are there any things TSA avoids because they rely too much on luck
the gambling game is one.
Posted: 1/8/2005 8:15 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
I'm very interested in seeing a tool-assisted run of this... is anybody planning on doing it? Some people were waiting for the next release of Snes9X to come out, but the 1.43 final just came out and they didn't fix the problems yet... But it's definitely possible to work around the desyncs as it is. For one thing, frame advance never causes it to desync, so it can be played extremely precisely with that, and carefully to avoid having to use too many re-records. When re-records are necessary, they can be used, but they sometimes screw up the RNG after they're used, so a little while afterward it's necessary to check if/where a desync occurs. If it did desync, just have to (ugh) watch everything so far with fast forward until the desync happened, then continue recording from there. It'll be a pain to get past the boss fights since they're really random, but everything else should be easy enough, considering there's TSA's speedrun to use as reference.
Posted: 1/8/2005 11:44 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Whats RNG?
Posted: 1/9/2005 12:13 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Oh, sorry... RNG = random number generator. I think it's used to determine the next direction some boss monsters move, the directions guards start moving in when you enter a room, and whether a defeated enemy drops anything. I don't know how this game generates its random numbers, but it must be using something that gets messed up by reloading save states. Since when I load a saved state the sounds that were currently playing when it was saved become garbled or possibly turn into other sounds, I'm guessing it's an audio issue. But turning off the sound should have some effect on the emulation in that case (if it uses the current state of the sound CPU to decide things) so I'm not really sure.
Posted: 1/9/2005 10:55 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
So you think the random number stays after loading a state and thus screws up the upcoming play?
Posted: 1/9/2005 6:33 PM
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qbproger
Joined: 12/7/2004
Posts: 69
but a save state also turns the music back to where it was (at least in ZSNES). I thought it got it's name from saving the exact state of the machine. I'm not sure how this could change anything.
Posted: 1/15/2005 9:28 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
(Oh, didn't see this had been replied to for some reason...) Yeah, loading a state where the random number is different seems to carry over the previous random number to the incorrect point in time. That shouldn't happen, but maybe the state Snes9X is saving is missing some important bit of info that no other games use.
Posted: 1/16/2005 5:15 PM
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Culden
Joined: 4/1/2004
Posts: 83
Location: Canada
heh heh ooo right. Yeah anyways, after much work and patience (and a new computer 3 times faster than the one i had 1 week ago), i finally finished my zelda run(just a test pretty much), just to prove it CAN BE DONE, although it takes ALOT of patience. The desyncing seems to be more frequent in the dark world than in the light world. Something i have noticed, and i think i have mentioned before is that i think the randomness of certain enemies is the reason why it desyncs, cause when i make the video and play the video, some enemies have different movements, i also believe that it is affected by your movement. With all that said, i finished it, but its the european rom. I was thinking about doing a run as well as you guys do it, but i don't have the patience for it, i might do a different game, but this one was a real pain. So i will leave my video as a videogame walkthrough (Like my other rpg runs) If people are interested in seeing this, let me know and i will put it up for download, otherwise i hope someone takes this run, cause it is very interesting to watch, just a real pain to make. Items collected - 100% Number of hits taken - 0
When scores are drawn, who will you die for?
Posted: 1/16/2005 7:38 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Hehe.. I like the comment "If someone is interested in seeing it...." some people are always interested. Me, I'm just getting frustrated when I can't find a way to download it already. So please put it up for download. :)
Posted: 1/17/2005 3:33 AM
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OmegaFlareX
Joined: 7/20/2004
Posts: 108
I wanna see it too.
Posted: 1/19/2005 3:40 AM
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Culden
Joined: 4/1/2004
Posts: 83
Location: Canada
Sorry, i just got to get a day off when my roomate isn't on the computer so i can upload it. He is LITERALLY ALWAYS on his computer. I will have it up very soon and sorry for making those who wish to see it wait ^-^
When scores are drawn, who will you die for?
Posted: 1/20/2005 12:25 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Err... Uploading should take like 5 seconds, including launching an FTP client or something. :D Poke your roomie and annoy him until he moves away from the computer. Then do your stuff. Otherwise you can mail me the file and I will host it for you. You could mail both SMV and AVI (if you have one). My inbox can take like 1GB attachments per mail or something. As long as there is any space on my harddrive left. :)
Posted: 1/20/2005 5:40 AM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
Boy, that video was pretty sweet! I definitely can tell, however, that I think a tool-assisted run would definitely be around an hour and a half. There were a couple of major parts, such as toward the end of the final palace, that could be redone to save some time. I really look forward to this...
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 1/20/2005 9:52 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
You mean TDA's run?
Posted: 1/20/2005 11:36 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
TDA = TSA + SDA? :D
Posted: 1/20/2005 11:42 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I always mess things up. :) Thanks for the corrections.
Posted: 1/20/2005 2:42 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
Yeah, it was the TSA run, sorry. I thought it was still on that topic some. o_O That's what I get for reading posts when I'm about to fall out of my chair and onto the floor sleeping.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 1/21/2005 1:11 AM
Post subject: Zelda Desync (hopefully) fixed!
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Fabianx
Joined: 12/17/2004
Posts: 99
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Hi, I think I fixed the Zelda Desync. Please test: http://nesvideos.stc.cx/viewtopic.php?t=1680 cu Fabian
Posted: 1/21/2005 4:06 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Awesome. I would like that patch to get included in the official release soon. :D
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