I guess this would be a long term goal since those who can edit the website sound pretty busy, but perhaps a rating system could be implemented(1-5?), and could even allow the website viewer to sort them by rating. The players of the movies that don't get rated very high would notice and perhaps be pushed a little harder to try next time.
edit: to clarify, I meant the rating system for already existing movies. but despite this I see that it is under the "to do" section of the website.
But does a boring game done as fast as possible make a great video? No, IMO, and that to me is the biggest problem with most of the new videos coming out. The games themselves don't allow for any creative or extraordinary play.
Nope, I appreciate games I played often as a child being run through as fast as possible. Astyanax for example...a boring movie to many, but I loved it as this was my single favorite game back in the day (seriously).
That's why I'm doing Castle of Dragon now...it's another game that I liked when I was young and still have a soft spot for. The thing with that game is that there is room to do impressive stuff (dodge everything, which is EXTREMELY difficult to do in a real game), but it makes the movie FAR slower. So for now I'm just working on speed...might make a flashy version if anyone cares.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
I'd like to say that the idea whit listing unfinished movies (whit like course 1 and 2 only) is superb. In that case you can get info if there is something that needs improvement in the begining and you don't have to rerecord the whole game just to fix a smal thing in the begining. But maybe it's just me....
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
The way I think of it, entertainment is more important than speed. It just so happens that it is universally agreed upon that speed is the biggest factor in making up this entertainment.
May I say my opinion? I think,
"entertainment" is a vaguely factor(criterion).
"speed" is a clearly factor(criterion).
Everyone can try to improve "speed".
But not-everyone can try to improve "entertainment".
Because "entertainment" is not common-sense.
(Example)
Someone don't like "backstabbing in SMB1".
But Someone don't feel bad "Backstabbing in SMB1".
So,an author can't decide 'which is better',when he is making his movie.
---
:Another Problems - about "imitation"
Extremely, my SuperMetroid-Movie is an imitation,isn't it?
(Smokey,Jecy,Frenom,Red.S,etc)
A difference is "Speed".
(I can' judge about "entertainment of this movie", because of my first sentences.)
---
Umm,I have no good-idea about these problems,sorry.(^_^;)
But I think that we must think about these problems,as soon as possible...
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
being fast while doing the toughest and unexpected things is entertainment, to me. i dont want to download a video to see something i have already done myself playing normally. i want to be impressed
being fast while doing the toughest and unexpected things is entertainment, to me. i dont want to download a video to see something i have already done myself playing normally. i want to be impressed
I can understand, and I agree.
However, sometimes I happen to meet "trouble".
(Example)
In SuperMetroid, I happened to meet trouble.
>being fast while doing the toughest and unexpected things
'Using Murderbeam' is fastest.
'Not Using Murderbeam' is not fastest.
But many people said "Not using 'Murderbeam' is good."
So, I was confused "Which is the one, I must take precedence?"
Of cource, in this case, I can(could) judge "Many people's opinions are best".
But, when I(or someone) am making other movies, author can't judge which is the best-way.
If you can't understand, sorry.(^_^;)
In SuperMetroid, I happened to meet trouble.
>being fast while doing the toughest and unexpected things
'Using Murderbeam' is fastest.
'Not Using Murderbeam' is not fastest.
But many people said "Not using 'Murderbeam' is good."
So, I was confused "Which is the one, I must take precedence?"
I think that in this case you need a sense of proportion.
I believe that everyone agrees that an optimally played regular battle against the final boss (ie. not using the murder beam glitch) is immensely more entertaining than using the extremely confusing and ugly glitch. While it is of course subjective, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say that it's at least 100 times more entertaining (with whatever subjective measure you want to use).
And how much does the glitch save in this 40+ mins movie? 1 single second.
I really believe we can sacrifice that 1 second to make the final battle 100 times more entertaining.
This is not the case in most movies. This situation is actually quite rare. I honestly believe we can make an exception with this one for the sake of entertainment.
To Warp
Oh no,"1second of SuperMetroid" is just "EXAMPLE".
And couldn't you understand this sentense...?
>Of cource, in this case, I can(could) judge "Many people's opinions are best".
I have already solved...
My main point in this thread is "Entertainment is vague,sometimes."
>This situation is actually quite rare.
Sorry,but NO.
I can show you other cases.
1: Which is the best , "remove HiJumpBoots" or "not remove HijumpBoots",in my movie, 2times.
2:Which is the best , "removie Ice-Beam" or "not remove Ice-Beam".
3:Which is the best, "use MockBall" or "not use MockBall".
(and more)
I think that you can't understand about why I am perplexed about these.
So, Please understand like this.
The one's "in game time" is fastest. but loss "length" and "Beauty".
The other's "in game time" is not fastest. but "length" is faster, and "more beauty".
After all , these new-examples mean same as "MurderBeam-Problem".
So, I said "No, This situation is not actually quite rare."
To Terimakasih, please don't think too black-and-white.
When we say "murder-beam doesn't look good", we do not mean "comb the movie thoroughly and judge every choice and maximize the entertainment".
> Which is right,"Hyperactive player" means "warning about many posts" ,or "a kind of a joke"...
It means you have produced movies faster than most people can think.
It's a positive kind of joke.
It's a ephemeral rank.
To Bisqwit
>please don't think too black-and-white.
Ok, Thanks for your adivise.
>It's a positive kind of joke.
I felt easy, thanks.(^_^;)
By the way,"think too black-and-white" is native-English-word?
If you searched Japanese-expression,thank you.
I can understand in easy.
By the way,"think too black-and-white" is native-English-word?
If you searched Japanese-expression,thank you.
I can understand in easy.
Dictionary offers "黒白", but I think it's not the right word.
The expression refers to exaggeration and extremes.
Like "hey, slow down a bit, you walk too fast - oh, you mean I should crawl then??? - no no, that's not what I mean - oh, so now you're hoping I run like a tiger??".
black-and-white = can't see shades of gray.
By the way,"think too black-and-white" is native-English-word?
If you searched Japanese-expression,thank you.
I can understand in easy.
Dictionary offers "黒白", but I think it's not the right word.
The expression refers to exaggeration and extremes.
Like "hey, slow down a bit, you walk too fast - oh, you mean I should crawl then??? - no no, that's not what I mean - oh, so now you're hoping I run like a tiger??".
black-and-white = can't see shades of gray.
Don't worry, I understood like your example-sentences.(^_^)
In Japan, "白黒"(Siro Kuro) means "to clear something."
(Or it means just "monochrome"(TV,Picture,Paint...)).
I think that both(Siro Kuro & Can't see shades of gray.) are resemble closely.
(Edit)
Whoops... And thank you.
All this discussion makes these speedruns all the more intimidating to newbies who want to learn not just the intricate hows and whys but who also want to feel encouraged and supported.
How good are those of you who are active players and recorders about offering feedback and commentary, and encouragement?
That's a good point.
It takes experience to learn to make good movies, and experienced players can easily spot mistakes in beginner movies.
Anyone can become experienced. It starts from trying.
Unfortunately, there's no other way around it, but people just need to find their courage; to actually start trying.
Do not fear criticism! Criticism is the basis for growth. Use it for your advantage, to learn.
And from time to time, even first-time submitters make publication-worthy movies. Digest the spirit of the guidelines and you should be on the right road :)
fruitbane wrote:
How good are those of you who are active players and recorders about offering feedback and commentary, and encouragement?
At least when I review movies, there are three levels of feedback I provide:
- Sloppy playing: negative feedback, pointing to guidelines etc
- Flawless playing: "ok" result
- Creativity and surprises: praises and encouragement
Needless to say, the extremes stick out and determine the general colour of the feedback. If the movie alternates between sloppiness and flawlessness, the general colour will be negative, even if there are periods of flawless playing.
All this discussion makes these speedruns all the more intimidating to newbies who want to learn not just the intricate hows and whys but who also want to feel encouraged and supported.
I don't feel that they should discouraged, but at the same time they must know that making one is not a quick and easy process. I feel a good thing to remember when submitting a run is that you are putting your name on it, and do you want your name on something which is sub-par? As you are working on it, and after you are finished take a look at what you have done and ask yourself some quesitons:
- Does it compare to the currently published runs in terms of skill and entertainment?
- If it was someone elses run would it be worth watching?
- Finally probably the most important; Can it be improved?
If you ask yourself those questions and give yourself a negitive response, then you should redo it. It can be hard to find problems in your own work, so if you can spot it then other people will most likely be able to aswell. Especially as there are some really keen eyed people on these forums.
You should be critical of yourself, and keep trying until you get it as close to, or as perfect as possible. Do not be discouraged that because it's your first submission it will be rejected, as a first time submitter you go through the same process as even the most experienced people on this forum. If the movie is high enough quality it will be. Both ViPeR7 and I had our first submissions accepted, but look at the quality of his Super Mario World run. There is VERY little room for improvement, and it's very entertaining. He spent alot of time on it.
I think there should be a Category called "Exhibition Mode", or something like that.
I have seen two SMB1 videos, the 5:00 one is great. The other is about 12 minutes long, but is also great to watch, as it performs a lot of stunts.
There are games in which speed runs aren't very fun to watch, also. A MK time-attack would get repetitive because if a certain combo is the fastest way to defeat enemies, it would be used against all the combatants.
But I guess a MK run in "Exhibition Mode" would be very interesting. There are a lot of glitches and stunts that can be used (triple fatality of Liu Kang, kill you five times before you reach ground with Johnny Cage/Kano, etc.)
Of course, time-attacks with stunts are cool, and movies to show 'tricks' shouldn't waste time without reason, either.
"I think there should be a Category called "Exhibition Mode", or something like that. "
That'd be a great idea.
You should also dedicate a place for WIP and just crazy things we've done. They don't have to be officially "published" just either WIP or interesting tiny movies just for fun, not competition.
I think you should seperate all the "time attack" movies from the "entertainment" movies.
I like this thread, especially since it echoes my thinking about how to approach my (hopefully) upcoming Jurassic Park TAS, which will be my first. I actually have trouble figuring out why anyone would bother to submit something less-than-perfect, especially when they have all the tools to implement perfection. I see emulators as an way to trade real time (as in rerecords) for perfection, and would be glad to spend an hour to perform some trick that saved .2 sec.
