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Posted: 12/9/2004 2:52 PM
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Tilus
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
No, you can't alter your speed, but it really won't matter much anyways.. what I was asking for is the world record score, not time. The bike race works like this: As long as you're ahead of Johnny, you gain points. When you fall behind, you lose points. Every time you go ahead/fall behind, after a second or so you both catch up to each other. So, to get a perfect score, you need to jump out ahead of Johnny immediately and then steer the bike so that he continuously bumps into you from behind when he attempts to catch up with you, keeping you ahead and continuing to build up your score. What I don't remember, though, is if being farther ahead causes your points to rise faster than normal, which will determine if I use up the other two boosts or not. But I guess that's going to wait until I get that far (which won't be very long now).
Posted: 12/9/2004 3:28 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
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Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
Tilus, it does. Which is why I made the distinction. the 2307 was about the highest possible score without boosts because I stayed ahead of him the entire way.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 12/9/2004 3:34 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
When you do the race, be sure to move the camera around in interesting ways, because you don't have to worry about your reflexes. :)
Posted: 12/9/2004 5:25 PM
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
You can move the camera in the race?
Posted: 12/9/2004 5:54 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Avin wrote:
You can move the camera in the race?
Yes, rotate the view.
Posted: 12/9/2004 6:10 PM
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Tilus
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
The first time around, you can't move the camera around, unfortunately. However, when you rerace (I think you need the race log, too), you can choose to run without boosts, and only then are you able to rotate the camera.
Posted: 12/9/2004 7:38 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Even the first time you can PAN the view vertically. I created a small video that demonstrates the full camera movements (and gets 2341 as score): http://tracker.tasvideos.org/chronotrigger-race-panaround.avi.torrent (7 MB)
Posted: 12/12/2004 1:53 AM
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Tilus
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
I have developed a newfound hatred of the bike race. As annoying as it was to just win the blasted thing every time I play it on the console, trying to win it perfectly without being able to rotate the camera about has finally managed to break my patience.. I've burnt way too much time and way too many rerecords, and I've still have yet to make it halfway across the track before Johnny manages to pass me up. Like with perfecting boss strategy, I'm going to put off perfecting the bike race until the final version.
Posted: 12/12/2004 2:01 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Johnny is easy to predict at slow-motion. He reads your acceleration and uses that to choose where to move. Keep your steering speed as small as possible, and it should be easy.
Posted: 12/12/2004 3:49 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Tilus wrote:
What I don't remember, though, is if being farther ahead causes your points to rise faster than normal, which will determine if I use up the other two boosts or not. But I guess that's going to wait until I get that far (which won't be very long now).
I see what you're asking. If you use a boost at the very end of the race the way Blechy suggested, it might end the race a little sooner and make the video a little shorter. But if your points don't increase faster, then ending the race sooner would result in a lower score and look a little less impressive. Maybe I should put an SNES emulator on my new computer one of these days and find out...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/12/2004 5:24 AM
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Emptyeye
Joined: 12/5/2004
Posts: 60
Just a quick pointer that the maximum possible score in the bike race is 2371. I believe I did this without boosts, though I did rotate the camera (Which doesn't help you a lot).
Emptyeye.com- Come for the music, stay for the blog.
Posted: 12/12/2004 9:19 PM
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Itstoearly
Joined: 8/10/2004
Posts: 173
Location: Bethel, VT
In all fairness, most people watching the video won't even glance at the score. I say just go for speed.
Posted: 12/13/2004 6:49 PM
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Tilus
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
More progress. Test run 1, update 2, up until the End of Time. Time is 00:58:06, with the official game clock at 00:54. A bit slower than Sampyla's supposed time he reached the End of Time, but I know I've made plenty of mistakes in the run already. And, because of this, I don't really like this version of the movie - it's mostly up to see if anyone can catch anything else I can improve on. Regardless, I'm certain I can improve on the current version by a good 5 minutes at least. Notes on the run: - Redid the movie up until Yakra, including in all the criticisms from the previous version as well as knocking 40 seconds off the version 1 time to bring it down to 00:16:09. Besides optimizing the Yakra fight itself, the strategy up to that point is pretty much final, with the exception of throwing in a trip to the market in 600 AD to buy Shelters. - Decided to go the flashy route during the prison tower escape sequence - I didn't realize how short it was to just escape the hard way - I'm now convinced it might even be faster than waiting it out. - Fights were fought with the goal of avoiding counterattacks above all else. They take up enough time and do enough damage that, especially at battle speed 1, that the extra time waiting through the counterattack and the extra time spent healing the damage caused isn't worth a slight damage increase in most cases. - In Arris Dome, in the room before you reach the computer terminal which shows you the Day of Lavos, I took a slightly lengthier route (by 1 second) which I thought was more interesting than the left branch which winds around the perimeter of the room. This was one of those speed-for-entertainment tradeoffs that didn't really affect my time that much. - Yes, you do have to go all the way through the right side of the factory. operating the crane and checking the computer screen to learn the XABY password, as strangely the game won't let you input it to get past the door at the bottom level without "learning" the password first. Things I know I can improve on: - I have no earthly idea why I wasted 30+ seconds to pick up the Shelter/1500G/Lode Sword (only ATK +2 over the SteelSaber for just one fight, ugh) in the jail escape.. that'll definitely be cut out in the final version. The money was spent on Iron Helms - losing them shouldn't affect the run any. - The Guardian fight and the fight vs the 5 Acids/Alkalines in the Factory were both absolutely terrible. There's not much I can do about the first but hope I can manipulate the fates for a better string of criticals. The Acids/Alkalines are weak vs. thunder (Slash), but at that point I'm still quite a bit away from learning it, so I guess I've got no choice in that fight either besides trying to switch targets around to try to get better damage. - I just remembered all the enemies in Lab 16 can be avoided, including both mutants just before the end (bypassing the two battles vs Shadows as well). - I didn't look too bad in the bike race (got passed up three times by Johnny, final score was 1930-something), but of course, that can be improved on too. - I don't think my dancing is quite as good as some of the other dances in other games that are on the site, but they did get a little better later on. - On second thought, bringing Lucca into the Factory instead of Marle might've been a bad idea. Everything in the Factory is resistant to fire, and Fire Whirl does no more damage to the Acids/Alkalines and the R-Series than just regular ol' Cyclone, not to mention Marle has better speed and her bow has better attack power. Anyways, feel free to watch over the run, burn me twice as bad as you guys did on the previous version with your comments, and so on. My next release will likely be all the way up to the entrance of Magus's Castle, which also happens to be the place where the run should really start to get interesting.
Posted: 12/14/2004 3:28 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
I might be wrong, but I think you don't need to watch the demo that comes when you win the race. Just press some button. At least that worked for me. I don't know what you are referring to by 'dancing'. I'd say this movie is 'very cool', but it's a little obvious to me. But I like it. At the conveyer belt where you had to wait, I think it would been funnier if you had just stood still. The rest of the party will stand still too (or actually, run still) and the robots would have rolled through them. And the screen scrolling fast left and right annoyed me. Same later in the scene where Robo is getting trashed - the useless screen scrolling is annoying.
Posted: 12/14/2004 4:28 PM
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Bladegash
Former player
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 484
Location: ­­
I've noticed that you have to walk into enemies to start an encounter, and them walking into you will just make them go through you. Marle (or whatever you've named her) will do something similar in the beginning.
Posted: 12/14/2004 4:30 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Bladegash wrote:
I've noticed that you have to walk into enemies to start an encounter, and them walking into you will just make them go through you. Marle (or whatever you've named her) will do something similar in the beginning.
Actually, if you stand on Marle's way, she'll run _around_ you. It looks somewhat funny if you can position Crono such that Marle will have trouble passing him.
Posted: 12/14/2004 4:33 PM
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Bladegash
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 484
Location: ­­
Hence the 'something similar' part of that sentence. >_>
Posted: 12/14/2004 9:48 PM
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Tilus
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
Bisqwit wrote:
I might be wrong, but I think you don't need to watch the demo that comes when you win the race. Just press some button. At least that worked for me.
Yeah, I forgot about that. There's another 5-10 seconds off the run..
Bisqwit wrote:
I don't know what you are referring to by 'dancing'.
Dancing = running about the screen in silly ways to keep the movie interesting during long dialogue screens. Also, as for the distracting dancing during the factory, the conveyor belt idea sounds good, but I think I should still be able to do a little something in the upper corner of the room while Robo gets beat up.
Bisqwit wrote:
I'd say this movie is 'very cool', but it's a little obvious to me. But I like it.
I didn't like the movie much, because there was quite a few mistakes I'm kicking myself for making, and that there's not a whole lot that's exciting or extraordinary about the movie yet (besides those inexperienced with the game saying "Wow, that enemy can be avoided?" or "I didn't know you could do that!", but pretty much all of them can be done consistantly on a regular console in realtime). It won't be until I reach Magus's Castle that I begin tempting the fates and start to fight bosses I really shouldn't be fighting at such a low level.
Posted: 12/18/2004 4:17 PM
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Tombad
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 380
Location: Finland
Okay, I finally watched all of this and you're doing a great job. I'm looking forward to the next updates. :)
"Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home." ( Pratchett & Gaiman: Good Omens )
Posted: 12/21/2004 4:02 AM
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ventuz
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Player (126)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
watched your run... in 2300 AD junkyard, were you trying to avoid enemies, or you fought them on purpose? (for xp/tech) theres way to avoid them also. -> smv
Posted: 12/21/2004 5:11 PM
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Tilus
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
ventuz wrote:
watched your run... in 2300 AD junkyard, were you trying to avoid enemies, or you fought them on purpose? (for xp/tech)
Tilus wrote:
- I just remembered all the enemies in Lab 16 can be avoided, including both mutants just before the end (bypassing the two battles vs Shadows as well).
No, it wasn't on purpose - I forgot they could be avoided. This is just a test run to make sure my strategy through the game works. But yeah, in the final version of the run, they will be avoided. Anyways, as for progress, Heckran, Zombor, and Masa & Mune have all been defeated, putting me well on the way to my next goal. The run's definitely looking better now, since now that I have magic there's lots more options for me to use to lay waste to any enemies I have to fight. The run's at just under 1:30 right now, and I'm starting to get a better idea as to how long the full run will take.. I'm expecting somewhere around the 3 1/2 hour mark. Getting it down to 3 hours or less will probably be a bit of a stretch, though.. as I'm relying more on techs and less on physical attacks, I'm seeing less of an opportunity to optimize boss fights to much shorter time than they are now.
Posted: 12/21/2004 6:44 PM
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ventuz
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Player (126)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
oh thats good. I wonder whats your plan for Blackbird? *You SHOULD bring Ayla *Party equipment, equip to crappy gears and put good gears in inventory (skip those til you pickup items) (dont know if this works) *Pickup Cash??? Plan to bring Magus? +why not show us updated run? so we can see if you make any mistake and point it out?
Posted: 12/21/2004 8:29 PM
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Tilus
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
I'm not too worried about the Blackbird, actually. I do plan on bringing Ayla (she has many excellent single target Double Techs) and skipping over the three character equipment chests by deequipping my best stuff before I get caught by Dalton, if I can. I will likely be picking up my cash, since I'll have plenty left over from the whole Ocean Palace and likely several locations before that, which I will need later, should I decide to do the Sunken Palace quest after all and splurge 150,000 G on 3 Vigil Hats. However, my biggest worry is what I'll be doing *after* I escape from the Blackbird. At this point I have access to everything I need to go after Lavos with. If I don't wind up getting Magus after all, I'll need to do the Sunken Desert subquest to get access to Vigil Hats, which have status protection on them. Attempting to beat Lavos prior to the Ocean Palace disaster is suicide, since both his first and second form can inflict nasty statuses (such as Chaos) on the entire party, and the soonest I get any status protection is when I obtain Magus after the Blackbird goes down, so if the Magus tactic falls through, this'll be my best alternative. The entire Black Omen is out - there's nothing there that'll help me fight Lavos quicker or at a lower level, except for a massive cache of Speed Tabs and MegaElixirs - which I think I'll have plenty enough of by that point in the game. Initially, I pretty much discarded Magus as a potential idea to replace Crono (thus skipping having to revive him), thinking that the effort needed to get his good techs would offset the advantages of having him, but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced it's a good idea. Magus (only needing Dark Bomb) + Lucca + Robo + Blue Rock can use OmegaFlare, the most powerful magic-based triple tech in the game. With Magus's Amulet you get from recruiting him, and the equipment you can get from Ozzie's fort, and a Sight Cap from the Giant's Claw, that'll be 2 of 3 people I can have resistant to all statuses (and all three resistant to Chaos) without needing to go through the whole Sunken Forest quest. However, I would need to go through half the Ozzie's Fort subquest to pick up the equipment, half the Giant's Claw subquest to get the Blue Rock/Sight Cap, as well as having to get Flare for Lucca (her most expensive and longest to obtain tech), and having to do something about Robo's TERRIBLE M.Def, needing to buff the party up a lot to compensate and/or throw a bunch of M.Def raising equipment on him. ...And, I'll post an updated run once I reach Magus's Castle.
Posted: 12/23/2004 8:42 AM
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Itstoearly
Joined: 8/10/2004
Posts: 173
Location: Bethel, VT
I still think you should, if possible, kill lavos in 12,000 BC in the underwater palace... but people may not consider that a completion of the game, as you do not get the normal ending this way (I forget which one you do get)
Posted: 12/23/2004 5:06 PM
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Tilus
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
I would if I could, but unfortunately, it's not realistically possible to kill Lavos in a speedrun at the Ocean Palace, or any place prior to that. There's two main things that prevent me from attempting to kill Lavos at that point in time - the opening attacks by forms 1 and 2 of Lavos, as well as the very next attack it throws, which inflicts Chaos on the entire party, giving Lavos multiple free shots at pasting me into the ground. The first can't be avoided without either casting Lifeline, which isn't possible since Lavos acts first even with ** speed, having the GreenDream accessory, which can't be obtained until after the Ocean Palace, or leveling yourself up to rather astronomical heights - you'll need to have a very high Def or M.Def rating (I think in the realm of 200+ Def or 90+ M.Def to live through the enhanced Ocean Palace version of Lavos 1's opening attack.. I don't remember if it's a physical or magical attack. Even with maxed out stats of ~230 Def and ** M.Def it does in the neighborhood of 300 damage).. and that's not going to happen with the equipment you can get at that point in the game without some SERIOUS leveling.. well above 50 or so. My goal is to end the game at level 40, with all the levels I need after the Ocean Palace being covered with a trip to the Geno Dome conveyor belt. The second can't be avoided until after the Ocean Palace anyways - you simply have no access to protection against Chaos (or any other status ailment for that matter, except Slow/Stop) until at least after the Blackbird goes down. Hoping I hit myself out of Chaos won't help, either - Lavos 1's attack pattern, if I remember correctly, is Destruction Rains From Heavens! -> Chaos -> Needle Spin (1 target, high physical based damage and most likely death) -> Repeat. Even in the best case scenario, I'll have myself too occupied with keeping myself alive to be able to throw any attacks at Lavos.
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