I just finished watching the Cel-shaded encode (how do you load hi-res packs in Mupen?) of the all medallions TAS. I think I saw some possible improvements, so I figured I'd post here for the largest readership (hopefully to get input on my comments):
General Observation: Couldn't that new turn-able super slide save gobs of time?
1. I already posted about this, but you don't need the Cuckoo to get by the waterfall to the Zora Domain
2. When getting past the Zora king guy, why was a superflip necessary? It is possible to get into that wall with a corner swordslash which, due to not having to wait for the bomb to blow up, may be faster
3. In the Forest temple, why was a super slide not used at the beginning of the 4 ghosts scene in the main room with the elevator? I know I've seen videos of getting into the elevator, why not slide into the middle of the room? (not the elevator)
4. When battling the Stalfos, there is significant slowdown when delivering the final blow. Is it possible to deliver that blow with something from a distance, like a bomb, to avoid the slowdown?
I look forward to an any% improvement!
General Observation: Couldn't that new turn-able super slide save gobs of time?
Not as much as you'd think. The infinite-superslide-from-superflip that I posted earlier should save a fair bit of time, though.
1. I already posted about this, but you don't need the Cuckoo to get by the waterfall to the Zora Domain
Bloob didn't know this when he was doing that part of the run, but he did consider going back and doing it, then hexing the rest in, but I told him it would never work, so he scrapped that idea.
2. When getting past the Zora king guy, why was a superflip necessary? It is possible to get into that wall with a corner swordslash which, due to not having to wait for the bomb to blow up, may be faster
I didn't know it was possible to jumpslash through there, but that would almost certainly be faster.
3. In the Forest temple, why was a super slide not used at the beginning of the 4 ghosts scene in the main room with the elevator? I know I've seen videos of getting into the elevator, why not slide into the middle of the room? (not the elevator)
The only way to superslide there involves Nayru's Love (which we wouldn't have) and using a bombchu in the previous room, so that the bomb explodes faster. It also means you go straight into the lift and therefore can't get the Fairy Bow, which is needed to beat the boss.
4. When battling the Stalfos, there is significant slowdown when delivering the final blow. Is it possible to deliver that blow with something from a distance, like a bomb, to avoid the slowdown?
I noticed the lag there too. I'm sure Bloob tried to avoid it as best as he could. The only other thing I could think of, other than what you suggested, would be a rapid camera change after dealing the blow, so that the Stalfos wasn't in view.
<i>General Observation: Couldn't that new turn-able super slide save gobs of time? </i>
<I>3. In the Forest temple, why was a super slide not used at the beginning of the 4 ghosts scene in the main room with the elevator? I know I've seen videos of getting into the elevator, why not slide into the middle of the room? (not the elevator) </I>
The only way to superslide there involves Nayru's Love (which we wouldn't have) and using a bombchu in the previous room, so that the bomb explodes faster. It also means you go straight into the lift and therefore can't get the Fairy Bow, which is needed to beat the boss.
Umm... why not? You jumpslash when you are in it, ride it down. Then when you get on it, it goes all the way back up. Then you have immediate access to the elevator whenever you want. It's just faster to superslide to the boss room. Also the bombchu timing requires waiting, and the use of NL wastes time too. But you have access to the elevator, you can still go get fairy bow, it's just like if you had all 4 poes and the elevator is at the top. The lift ride wastes more time and the whole thing is much slower, but without going OoB it's technically the fastest trick
2. When getting past the Zora king guy, why was a superflip necessary? It is possible to get into that wall with a corner swordslash which, due to not having to wait for the bomb to blow up, may be faster
I didn't know it was possible to jumpslash through there, but that would almost certainly be faster.
<i>2. When getting past the Zora king guy, why was a superflip necessary? It is possible to get into that wall with a corner swordslash which, due to not having to wait for the bomb to blow up, may be faster </i>
I didn't know it was possible to jumpslash through there, but that would almost certainly be faster.
Yeah, I used that trick to get under the ice in Zora's Domain in about 2001 (if I recall, this was the first way to get under there... too bad nothing special is down there). I think there is another corner that works around there, a bit to the right, as well. Thinking back, I suppose I did it as an Adult though, so I can't say for sure whether it is possible as child link.
I've never gotten the trick to work as kid Link. I'm pretty sure that's one of those acute angles that doesn't work for kid Link and only for adult Link.
This was the potential/known improvements I gave to Bloobieblah just after he submitted his run. Since then there has been more known improvements. Some of them obvious like the new superslide technique, while others are little things which have been discovered during our current any% TAS, which could probably save time.
The times are done relative to the cell shaded AVI.
5:18: Should ricochet sword off fence to gain control more quickly
6:28: No need to get 3rd stick,will explain shortly*
*10:10: Equip a deku stick while sidehopping and jumpslash into the pre Ghoma cutscene, cost 27 frames but getting another stick wastes significantly more time.
20:23: Sidehopping and changing direction of sidehop would probably be better here instead of diagonal backwalking
26:20: Could manipulate the enemy to drop 20 rupees near where you open the door it would save a detour in Dondongo's Cavern**
27:30: Because of previous reference you would have avoided this
30:50: **
33:13: Could have jumpslashed with a stick into the pit the moment the floor crumbles
37:10: Cucco running paths could have been manipulated better by increasing the delay before supersliding, there is also the possibilty of using the cucco warp trick when supersliding
It is difficult to detail improvements here because small changes will make it hard to describe other things later on when gathering cucco's
39:55: You can setup the next sidehop before the speech so no turning after speech required
40:20: Seems this could have been combined into 2 bombs instead of 1, sidehopping till you're off the platform and whipping out a bomb as you're falling off then supersliding would
have been better
45:30: Could kill yourself before Impa avoiding the cutscene
48:25: Could have avoided the cucco
48:46: Bomb hover oportunity here by going over the gate simalar to the one in Gerudo Valley
48:15: Could use a superflip to get through the waterfall
***************possible route change to be added here********************
ADULT PARTS
1:12:00: I'm sure backwalking is faster here
1:17:57: Should use a superflip
1:27:18: Could kill Link before cutscene to avoid triggering it
1:40:38: Hookshot side of fence to avoid having to grab fence.
1:51:20: Possibilty of skipping Boss key, hard to say whether it's possible
2:09:14: There is a trick which can be used to get round the iron bars It would save having to detour
2:09:54: There is also a way to skip the boss key, need to deternmine whether it's feasible/saves time
***************possible route change to be added here********************
Route change notes: For the child adventure it's possible to get the bombchu's from the well provided you have Zelda's lullaby. This also provides another advantage early on because Link could obtain the bottle at the same time, which would allow both DC and Jabu to be completed faster. In the adult part you do not have the Requiem but you can still skip the Fortress if you have the hover boots. They may also be some other untested method which is faster. You should be able to get to the Spirit quickly as AL because of Superslides.
I have a terrible memory...I guess this means a 100% TAS should be under 5:30, but at any rate I guess I should get to work learning the tricks of the trade first.
What would be the best way to do this? Should I first map out the SDA route and try to follow it as closely as possible? Would it be a better idea to first see where I might be able to take shortcuts that YautjaElder could not take because they require too much precision? Should I just master everything on this Wiki page and go from there?
I thought about a way to change the route that would allow having bombs when crossing the desert, but I ran into a problem with the bean. Is there a way to skip it or maybe not planting the bean and working through the temple would still save some time
I doubt it though because you also lose time waiting for night to change to day so you can move talon and probably have to listen to the owl in order to talk to malon to get the egg unless there is also something to skip that
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
I thought about a way to change the route that would allow having bombs when crossing the desert, but I ran into a problem with the bean. Is there a way to skip it or maybe not planting the bean and working through the temple would still save some time
I doubt it though because you also lose time waiting for night to change to day so you can move talon and probably have to listen to the owl in order to talk to malon to get the egg unless there is also something to skip that
Perhaps just use bomb hovering to get to the chest, rather than the bean. Am I missing something?
Well we wouldn't have that many bombchus to spare unless we buy some and have to get pretty high off the ground so bomb hovering would be pretty slow
Kinda depends on how much time getting chus would waste
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
Disassembling the rom would probably not yield much results in terms of finding new time saving glitches, but it would help in gaining a fuller understanding of how the randomness works, atm I only understand 3-4 main factors but I reckon there may be 10+.
Now we know that we are able to begin an infinite slide without any source of damage:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O8UC7T3M
This shows that an infinite slide can be started by exiting water at high speeds (i.e. after a superslide), while the speed here being the knockback from the jumpslash against the hard surface. This only has a couple minor uses, one being what's shown in the video, but the idea of not needing a damage source is neat.
Hey guys, I was wondering if this guy's second method works?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFn-OCa4Fc8
The video cuts off or something so it could definately be a fake, but I was able to get through the wall using this, however I couldn't land it on the other side. It looks like it could be slightly quicker than having to set up it up the way he does in the first part of the movie.
To explain more in detail what I mean about the second method, he's sort of looking almost straight at the door, instead of standing parallel to it (play from 0:43). I'm thinking it's probably just a video edit anyway.
