Microstorage just got back up.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/708664563/BOMBERMAN%20HERO%20Final.m64
It desyncs in Heaven Sky. I don't plan on redoing past that point. I may again look into Boss strategies for Natia and Garaden later.
I think my notes will be enough to get you through the rest of World 4.
ThMrksman wrote:
By the way, stopping at the pillar was unavoidable, i tested it, and i think that there is no way to improve on it. The fire resistant vest is necessary as it saves 12 frames overall (even with the pause considered).
Oh, I was unaware that this actually saved time. I thought you were doing it for entertainment purposes. Good find.
Anyway that's about all the work I'm going to do for quite sometime unless there is an issue you would like me to investigate. Periodic WIP updates would be nice, but do it as you please, you're doing an awesome job.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Ok, I looked through the WIP and some of the strategies, magma dam etc, look really good. Oh, and the shortcuts you found in mazone were exceptional :P
Also i now know that it is definately possible to get the phone in Fog Route without losing health or wasting any time, (might lose a frame or two lining him up for the gap but nothing worth wasting life over).
And finally, here is a WIP including the Nitros fight:
http://rapidshare.com/files/162722130/killedfirstnitros.m64.html
I worked out that 8220 is pretty much the maximum score possible, in fact i did a test fight and only got 8210. In the WIP i redid it and got 8220. I'm pretty sure Nitros is hit on the first frame possible every time, so i don't think there is any real improvement to be had. What i really want to know is, should i go for this style where i try to do something different most times, or should i try something else? I'm fine with redoing the fight if its not up to your expectations, its kinda hard to judge your own work in terms of entertainment so hopefully i can get some feedback!
Also i now know that it is definately possible to get the phone in Fog Route without losing health or wasting any time, (might lose a frame or two lining him up for the gap but nothing worth wasting life over).
Yeah this is good, skip that heart in Rock n' Road then. We literally don't waste any time grabbing a heart throughout the entire run now.
ThMrksman wrote:
What i really want to know is, should i go for this style where i try to do something different most times, or should i try something else?
The bomb combos were nice. You did some cool stuff with the music.
One of the times you hit Nitros he is a bit off the ground initiating an attack. That may or may not be losing frames, you should check that.
If that's not an issue I think it looks great.
In Dragon Road at about 19500 did dropping the bomb preserve your forward momentum while falling? That's how it appears to be at least. O_o If not I wouldn't worry about fixing it.
EDIT: 100th post. Awesome.
2nd EDIT: The thought about dropping the bomb to preserve forward momentum may be useful in water pool when falling into the tunnel area. I doubt it will help actually, but I thought I would mention it.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Kirkq wrote:
The thought about dropping the bomb to preserve forward momentum may be useful in water pool when falling into the tunnel area. I doubt it will help actually, but I thought I would mention it.
I'll keep checking for possible uses of it
Also im just posting to say that:
1: I've just finished world 1
2: My exams are almost over (meaning more time to finish this, so expect me to be at least a good way into world two in about a week)
The time from power on till the frame the score begins to move at the end of the endol battle is 9 mins and 7.43 seconds, so about 26 seconds faster than you test WIP
I'd like to see Warp Room, Dark Prison, and Killer Gate after/as you finish them.
As I said before you need to hit the switch as early as possible in Warp Room, perhaps with a bomb kick. In Dark Prison the routing is going to be important because of that stupid back platform. If you can get on the platform as soon as you need to, the route is probably pretty efficient.
As I mentioned before Killer Gate is going to require some intensive position and height manipulation to appear optimal. On that note I wonder if it would be feasible and more optimal to drop the first bomb earlier and have the bomb that actually delivers the first hit to the submarine explode early from the first bomb. If you are extremely low to the ground for the first hit you may be able to do this, but you can't hit yourself with it.
Also once you get to Baruda, make sure after you deliver the first hit he never gets too far away to hit him as soon as his stun time is up. It SHOULD be possible. There's a small chance that it isn't though.
I just mentioned this because I think it would be good to collaborate on these levels as you're doing them so that they appear optimal before moving on.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Kirkq wrote:
I think it would be good to collaborate on these levels as you're doing them so that they appear optimal before moving on.
Well I've got back into TASing bomberman hero and here it is up to and including a finished Warp Room!
Tell me what you think; I'm personally quite happy with how it turned out.
And yes, i will need a lot of help/time/effort with killer gate, but we'll worry about that when we get to it :)
Looked pretty good. Great Rock didn't look completely optimal, but I didn't notice any glaring errors. Fog Route you used one more jump to get up the cliff than I did.
Everything else looked pretty good.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
With Great Rock I had just started using Nitsuja's TAS input 0.6 for Mupen64 which I was still getting used to. If you mean the bit at the start where i could have jumped a bit further right i'm still kicking myself over that one but in terms of time i don't think it would make a massive difference because bomberman would have to travel further right accelerating to make the jump if he was further right to begin with once on the next ledge.
I thought I followed your route for Fog route?!?
Well, anyway, on to Dark Prison, i'll post that up once i'm happy with it for you to see.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
I actually haven't been working on it for a little while now, i've sort of lost interest in it . . (my sig is a lie)
Ive redone Dark Prison about 3 times but i keep having to start again because i've left out an obvious shortcut/faster route etc.
By any chance you can upload said 30% up in video form (stream site like youtube or somewhere to download the video file) The reason being my computer can't run n64 emulators (gaming computer died a few months ago)
I really enjoyed this game.
ThMrksMan's World 1 progress:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArxX0LjhDa8&feature=channel_page
Also I plan on taking this up after/while I'm finishing working with 7th Saga this summer (I'm done with the college semester in 3 weeks.). My test run (complete with late game desync.) is a few pages back if anyone is interested. If anyone wants to work with me or review progress just let me know.
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Kirkq wrote:
ThMrksMan's World 1 progress:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArxX0LjhDa8&feature=channel_page
Also I plan on taking this up after/while I'm finishing working with 7th Saga this summer (I'm done with the college semester in 3 weeks.). My test run (complete with late game desync.) is a few pages back if anyone is interested. If anyone wants to work with me or review progress just let me know.
Well, ill give you the lastest .m64 file that i did if you want it, of course i wouldn't blame you for wanting to start from scratch heh
Most progress is good progress. I'm sure you found some things I will miss, so it would be worth my while to observe your WIP. I do plan on starting from scratch though.
(Just edit your post if you want. Add comments to where you think I could improve or if you found any neat movement tricks that haven't been mentioned.)
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Kirkq wrote:
Most progress is good progress. I'm sure you found some things I will miss, so it would be worth my while to observe your WIP. I do plan on starting from scratch though.
(Just edit your post if you want. Add comments to where you think I could improve or if you found any neat movement tricks that haven't been mentioned.)
May as well make a new post:
Latest WIP<----
and now for a running commentary on said WIP:
Firstly, the routes on the levels of world 1 area 1 are pretty tight, but you should be able to get good improvements on them simply by using that TAS input plugin 0.6 instead of just arrow keys, you'll save seconds on optimisation alone.
Sometimes you can drop a bomb on an enemy (pressing R) without losing a frame, experiment and see if you can when convenient as it would be much more entertaining.
For hole lake, it seems that shooting actually slows you down, i still went crazy with firing bombs anyway, up to you how you handle the water levels, but you do need the fire resistance suit, it does save time.
With red cave, it seemed like doing a small jump was the fastest way to gain speed after injury, however its not the fastest way to gain speed after climbing up onto a ledge, might be good to check different things for each of those situations.
On Dragon Road i discovered the old dropping a bomb while falling off of a ledge to preserve momentum trick, see if you can find other uses for that too, and im sure that the route i took for that level wasnt optimal, so aim to beat it by at least a second or two :p (there may be a few frames to save with the boss as well, i didnt experiment with its invulnerability for long)
You handled Nitros better than me if i recall correctly, so ill leave those fights all to you :p
Early jumps in Great Rock were poorly executed, the later ones might be hard to emulate, but see how you go, you shouldn't have to kill any of those fireball spewing things.
In Fog Route, you will have to jump to get between the two bombs after touching the remote, rest is straightforward, again im sure it can be better optimised.
You can't fall off of the course after killing Endol or Bolban have fun with that :p
World 2:
Groog hills is one spot where it will be worth losing one bar of health (well duh), try and land the jump into the water early, because you can't get into the exit until after bomberman has recovered from taking damage.
In Bubble Hole, you'll get to manipulate the bubbles' movement, i found that slightly changing the direction Bomberman travels in seems to change it, prehaps something more time-friendly like jumping will do the same.
Erars lake: *yawn*, and a bit more luck manipulation
Okay, with waterway, you'll have to experiment a lot with the first jump into the water, see how you go, my run was not optimal there, perhaps if you manage better you might be able to jump right over the enemy waiting for you at the end of it.
Also, throwing a bomb while you are in the air (sometimes?) helps you fall faster, test it, it may help, i employed the R edge trick here as well, i don't know if it was neccessary . .
I hated the boss on Rock and Road, just had to mention that :p so hard to optimise . .
There might be a faster way to fall off of the first ledge in water pool (mabye throwing a bomb?)
I was really happy with how Warp Room turned out, see if you can beat it :p
The second crystal in Dark Prison can be collected much faster, just jump up straight away for it and jump again onto the next platform, instead of acting like an idiot and trying to do both in one jump. Then with the time you've saved, you shoud be able to jump onto the moving platform from the main spiralling platform and thus collect the third crystal much faster, saving several seconds.
Well, thats all i can think of for now, good luck!
I get a desync at the end of warp room jumping just short of the final warp.
If you can still view dark prison (maybe you still have the bad save you loaded off of.), can you perhaps upload a video of just your dark prison route?
I made a complete table of frame values to reference your run as I progress, and I will get started soon. Expect updates to start coming in about two weeks.
I may edit more onto this post later.
EDIT: Battle Room complete, (I think?) , jumping over the last enemy may have lost me a couple frames. I'm 19 frames ahead currently due to a better accelerated jump after using the booster.
EDIT2: saved another frame while altering slightly to bomb the last enemy. 20 frames ahead, 3 in game intro, 17 in Battle Room
Most progress is good progress. I'm sure you found some things I will miss, so it would be worth my while to observe your WIP. I do plan on starting from scratch though.
(Just edit your post if you want. Add comments to where you think I could improve or if you found any neat movement tricks that haven't been mentioned.)
May as well make a new post
Latest WIP<----
and now for a running commentary on said WIP
Firstly, the routes on the levels of world 1 area 1 are pretty tight, but you should be able to get good improvements on them simply by using that TAS input plugin 0.6 instead of just arrow keys, you'll save seconds on optimisation alone.
Sometimes you can drop a bomb on an enemy (pressing R) without losing a frame, experiment and see if you can when convenient as it would be much more entertaining.
For hole lake, it seems that shooting actually slows you down, i still went crazy with firing bombs anyway, up to you how you handle the water levels, but you do need the fire resistance suit, it does save time.
With red cave, it seemed like doing a small jump was the fastest way to gain speed after injury, however its not the fastest way to gain speed after climbing up onto a ledge, might be good to check different things for each of those situations.
On Dragon Road i discovered the old dropping a bomb while falling off of a ledge to preserve momentum trick, see if you can find other uses for that too, and im sure that the route i took for that level wasnt optimal, so aim to beat it by at least a second or two p (there may be a few frames to save with the boss as well, i didnt experiment with its invulnerability for long)
You handled Nitros better than me if i recall correctly, so ill leave those fights all to you p
Early jumps in Great Rock were poorly executed, the later ones might be hard to emulate, but see how you go, you shouldn't have to kill any of those fireball spewing things.
In Fog Route, you will have to jump to get between the two bombs after touching the remote, rest is straightforward, again im sure it can be better optimised.
You can't fall off of the course after killing Endol or Bolban have fun with that p
World 2
Groog hills is one spot where it will be worth losing one bar of health (well duh), try and land the jump into the water early, because you can't get into the exit until after bomberman has recovered from taking damage.
In Bubble Hole, you'll get to manipulate the bubbles' movement, i found that slightly changing the direction Bomberman travels in seems to change it, prehaps something more time-friendly like jumping will do the same.
Erars lake *yawn*, and a bit more luck manipulation
Okay, with waterway, you'll have to experiment a lot with the first jump into the water, see how you go, my run was not optimal there, perhaps if you manage better you might be able to jump right over the enemy waiting for you at the end of it.
Also, throwing a bomb while you are in the air (sometimes?) helps you fall faster, test it, it may help, i employed the R edge trick here as well, i don't know if it was neccessary . .
I hated the boss on Rock and Road, just had to mention that p so hard to optimise . .
There might be a faster way to fall off of the first ledge in water pool (mabye throwing a bomb?)
I was really happy with how Warp Room turned out, see if you can beat it p
The second crystal in Dark Prison can be collected much faster, just jump up straight away for it and jump again onto the next platform, instead of acting like an idiot and trying to do both in one jump. Then with the time you've saved, you shoud be able to jump onto the moving platform from the main spiralling platform and thus collect the third crystal much faster, saving several seconds.
Well, thats all i can think of for now, good luck!
Joined: 8/3/2008
Posts: 157
Location: The Land Down Under
Captain Forehead wrote:
I noticed you did a lot of :P. :P
My favourite smiley!
and to Kirkq:
I'll have another look at Dark Prison then, i'll upload what i think is the optimal route onto youtube or something. I'll also try to have it done shortly, and obviously before you get started on Dark Prison.
