From someone who has only properly read the OP and skimmed the rest, (due to 50% laziness, and 50% assumption the majority of this topic will be flame wars...) when did the new forum begin and the old forum die? Because I thought I had been here, (lurking at least,) quite a time but now it seems I have not. (Timeattacks?) ...and I am guessing you are not talking about when the 'index' became 2 columns rather than the old single column..?
As for opinion on the whole thing...
I prefer TASvideos as apposed to NESVi... I mean, "Timeattacks." (I say that right?) It is more accurate. We live in an age where YouTube is king. And as the intelligence of the average YouTube'r is... from my experience, very low... but there are thousands of them. They need the basics spelled out for them.
A TAS that is not clearly labeled as such could be/will be seen as a non assisted runner trying to cheat. The mass of 1 star votes and thumbs down the runner will receive will not only deter the average joe, but pottential decent non tool runners and TAS'ers too.
I would also assume that a decrease in popularity in SDA (which I can more than understand at the moment) would hurt increase in new expansion here. Two side of the same coin I guess.
Tl;dr= a name change is irrelevant if it helps growth. (Pride is not just an argument in 'pride movies'?
And on the new voting system. I am not a fan.
It used to be did I enjoy the movie? Simple.
Now a quantitative answer is needed. I no longer feel qualified to answer. As a very casual viewer I feel like I need a diploma to justify voting. I know next to nothing about creating TAS's. That alone means I should not vote on tech quality. Thinking about it, it should not effect my entertainment vote... yet it does.
I like Sonic Runs. There fast and fun. I dislike Monopoly. its... a board game. I vote yes to Sonic. No to Monopoly.
Did I enjoy Sonic 1? Yes. Sonic 2? Yes. Sonic 3? Yes.
Which Sonic did I enjoy more?! Which Did you enjoy less?! By how many percent did you prefer 1 to 3?! ARE YOU HAVING FUN YET!! (IN A NUMERICAL FORM ABOVE X% OR ELSE YOU ARE WRONG!!!)Now that I am typing, this is not the friendliest of communities to outsiders.
As for why I did not mention this in the thread about voting changes... It was a descussion about what I saw about the very foundations of the site. AKA... The term, not the popular person... aka debatably the most important part of the site....
I vote one a month at most. What would I now what was best for the site? (ie, I didn't vote in that topic for the very reason I do not vote for movies anymore.)
Tl;dr The New voting system. I do not like it but I am an average Joe, who cares what I think. (Personally I not sure if that is a a good or bad thing)
And as for old versus new in general...
I prefer old (yet apparently it is not so old.) Both Timeattacks, I mean TAS videos, I mean NESvideos, and SDA (Though alot more SDA... though that is irrelevant to this topic.) seem to have lost the charm that appealed to me when I was younger. Whether that is due to the fact that I am no longer a 16 year old boy coming home from school, a change in site direction, or a change in administration.... I do not know. What I do know is that I no longer really care when it comes down to it. I am sure I will check the news/new additions to the site(s) till I/they die. But I am no longer interested in the community. (That being said I was alot more intrested in SDA than TASvideos, originally. And what I see as a major negative in administration change there, has unfortunately rubbed of on speedruning in general, Tool assisted included. Sorry bout' that,)
Great, that should be more visible, as should its counterpart in entertainment.
I think if you read down the list that you will probably agree that most of these movies are going to be hard to improve upon timewise. It will certainly happen, but it will probably not be trivial. So I think that the tech rating is nice.
I'm not arguing that it isn't -- far be it from me to tell people how they should appreciate a movie -- just that it shouldn't be folded into the overall score. I'd vastly prefer a system that shows both numbers side-by-side (with an aggregated number as well if you must).
quote]Oh, and having tech rating combine with entertainment to form the "real" rating is good because it skews the more optimized movies upwards.[/quote]I'd argue that the right way to handle this is to have more mechanisms for finding high-technical movies -- like that list you posted. :)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Actually, my first intention was precisely to have this as a "machinima" website.
In case I guessed the meaning of that weird word wrong, I mean that I originally intended the site to be a collection of all kinds of weird gameplay videos that have been created by utilizing tools, without changing the actual games.
This is still something I would love to see. Hiliarous or game-breaking bugs in games; it's an utter shame that a lot of the funny or weird tricks have to be left out in the name of speed. :\
It's not like I haven't suggested having parallel categories at tasvideos.org, including a category of freeform machinima videos, at least three times in the past. Guess how many times the idea has caught on and been implemented.
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
(I can't believe I'm actually defending myself over this point)
When I made that statement, I was referring to the mood report, where it shows superjupi and I have used the widest variety of the selection, using all but four available as of posting. The rest of you seem to focus on the half that was originally available. ;P
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
I'm a fan of the fast reply. I wish there was a fast edit too, so I would never need to see that disgusting page again.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Removed the off topic posts.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
upthorn wrote:
Interesting how you removed all of my posts, but none of the posts ferret made in reply to them, even though they were talking about the same thing.
I don't care about your posts. There are only two posts about the mood report thing remaining, and thats Ferret Warlord's and Xkeeper's. Xkeeper's reply about it was enough and therefore stayed. Get over yourself.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I would've just left the topic alone, because quite honestly the thread was getting slightly derailed long before our posts.
A simple notice requesting the topic be returned to would've worked a lot better and been a lot less prone to "But my post was less off topic than that one".
And before you even open your mouths, I am not thrilled that mine stayed while others didn't.
The good old days. :(
To me, the best days were closer to the beginning. Nobody knew much about tool-assisted videos; we invented it as we went along, a group of gamers brought together by a common interest in something that really hadn't been explored much before. The forums made up a small community where everyone knew each other and TAS/timeattacking was born and shaped based on our day-to-day visions.
The "Frame Battles" are what really killed most of the fun imo, despite probably being the inevitable result of most of the popular games having been done to death, which ran the well of creativity dry ushering in the micro-TAS era where reducing lag/falling frame-optimally became all the hype. Competition and front page glory helped breed perfection, but usually at the cost of collaboration. (Nothing beat staying up late night on the forum/IRC channel trying to come up with a tactics to beat ALttP or DKC with some of the best speedrunners and TASers in the world, and finally revealing it on the forums the next day. )
Another issue was that the forum users started attacking each other almost as intensely as they would the games, often multi-quoting posts and trying to prove one another wrong on the smallest of issues. Vitriolic arguments over technical details occurred weekly; if your post wasn't bulletproof or logically ironclad, you were going to get burned. As a result, the forum atmosphere became more strict and mechanical. In defining the science of TAS I believe we neglected the art. And that's what mostly ended it for me, though I still enjoyed talking with some of the cool people I've met here in the IRC channel from time to time.
end rant.
Edit: good to see my last run is still standing :).
The "Frame Battles" are what really killed most of the fun imo
I think that's not exactly accurate. The same basic goal has existed from the very beginning: To complete the game as fast as possible, using any means possible. Already when there were something like 20 movies published, people were already commenting and suggesting tiny shortcuts which could save fractions of a second in existing publications. That phenomenon hasn't changed a bit.
What has changed is the tools. Back then all we had was famtasia. That's it. Just famtasia. That emulator didn't have luxuries like frame advance and it was very prone to breaking your movie if you loaded the wrong savestate (because the movie was not saved in the savestate file).
If you want to think that frame polishing has killed most of the fun, then the major culprit for this are the emulators and other tools, not the people making the movies. The goals haven't changed, only the tools. Now we do have better tools to save that last frame, and people are using them. I would, in fact, say that it's plain wrong to blame the TASers, because they are doing just what the whole TASing has been always about.
What you and the others are remembering about the "good old days" is basically the limited emulator tools, which more or less forced imperfect movies to be made (against the goals of TASing).
What I find ironic is that people seem to always complain about how extreme frame polishing is boring and that the videos should be more about entertainment and fun, yet when suggestions have been made (like a dozen of times already, during the years) about creating special categories for that exact purpose (eg. machinima videos, "powerplay" videos, etc.) it never catches up. People will just nitpick and complain, and nobody will actually go and do something to implement those suggestions.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I'm inclined to agree with Kyrsimys on the problem with the site ethos. That is the main concern that everyone should be focusing on. I prefer the old community, but only because I knew that the people who were there were there for the site.
However, here are some ramblings. The site has changed a lot in the 5+ years I've been around. Some things good, which were welcomed with somewhat open arms. Some things bad, which I feel I attempted to dissuade (along with others) and failed. So long as the consensus of the site was that we are doing this as a means of entertainment and expression through research and merit, rather than just getting low times in order to get our names published.
In the last few years, though, it seems like that whole ethos has been lost. I don't know if it's been drowned out in too many new and, to be honest, inexperienced opinions. It may be that we still try to treat the community as egalitarian, when it is so obvious that there are some people who deserve more sway than others. Hell, maybe it's just because there are too many people like AngerFist and myself: those who have strong opinions and are willing to go to it on the forums to make sure there is enough discourse. Either way, things seem to be taking the wrong direction as of late. It's the reason why a lot of people seem to come and go.
People just need to keep things in perspective. The change in voting is silly, and I've said my piece on that, but it keeps the concept out there. There are other things running afoul in the community, and I think those would be better suited for addressing. I'm looking at you, anyone who registered in the last 24 months.
I could be being dense but I don't get why you are looking this way, actually I didn't get anything you said, but that last sentence grabs my curiosity more.
There are other things running afoul in the community, and I think those would be better suited for addressing. I'm looking at you, anyone who registered in the last 24 months.
While I (think I) sort of understand what you're getting at here, I think you're mistaken on the time period. For instance, xipo, Nitsujrehtona, and klmz joined within the past 24 months, and some of the people who I'm pretty sure you're specifically thinking of joined a few months before that cut off.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
