Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
bkDJ wrote:
Raiscan wrote:
Stop bitching about the past and work on the future.
Is it cool to bitch about the future? Because I don't see this site getting any better if all we plan on doing is bitch and argue and argue about bitching. >:(
I think constructive criticism would work better than mindless complaining, but I don't see a problem otherwise :)
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Raiscan wrote:
I think constructive criticism would work better than mindless complaining
And mindless insults "like stop bitching and work in the future" and "mindless complaining" is constructive? How dare you?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
If you were not bitching, then what were you doing?v. bitched, bitch·ingv.intr.
To complain; grumble.
the verb "to bitch" has nothing to do with being a bitch. Also, I wasn't aiming "mindless complaining" specifically at you. Stop taking everything I say as a personal attack.
Both of my comments could be considered constructive since I provided an alternative to actions already taken.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Raiscan wrote:
If you were not bitching, then what were you doing?v. bitched, bitch·ingv.intr.
To complain; grumble.
the verb "to bitch" has nothing to do with being a bitch. Also, I wasn't aiming "mindless complaining" specifically at you. Stop taking everything I say as a personal attack.
Both of my comments could be considered constructive since I provided an alternative to actions already taken.
Instead of saying stop bitching and mindless complaining, present your opinion in a benign manner, like how warp, moozooh, kyrsimys and baxter did.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
AngerFist wrote:
First of all, we changed our beloved initial name Timeattacks to TASvideos, and now, some of you use the term tool-assisted-superplay-videos and whatnot.. Some assholes at M2k2 and SDA complained about the vague title Timeattacks, some even went so far to associate timeattacks with rape..
While I agree that the whole nontroversy about the name "timeattack" was ridiculous, there's a good reason why we stopped using it (Warp already explained most of it). The term "tool-assisted speedrun", and mostly its abbreviation TAS, have become very well-known in recent time.
At some point, in the Japanese speedrun community, the term TAS was mistakenly seen as a player's nickname, which has now led to the joke that all tool-assisted speedrun movies are supposedly made by TASさん (TAS-san). That alone is a cool enough story for me to want to keep the name.
I've nothing against the new voting system, it's the focus on shaving frames instead of providing an entertaining movie that's been slowly killing my interest in TASes and this site.
Exactly when was "shaving frames" *not* the focus of TASes in this site?
As far as I can remember, and I have been here from the very beginning, maximal speed optimization has *always* been the focus. The very first attempts with an almost unusable Famtasia were focused on completing games as fast as possible, by using any means. When I submitted my first Rygar TAS like one million years ago, a few comments were already of the type "you could save a few frames by doing this and that". The goal has always been entertainment by speed, not at the cost of speed.
Why do some people talk as if this was a machinima video website in the past, and slowly converted to a TAS website?
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Warp wrote:
Exactly when was "shaving frames" *not* the focus of TASes in this site?
If anything, it's the opposite; it used to be about shaving frames, and is now slowly and carefully inching into a more balanced entity. These days there are lots more players than way back when, and with them came a lot of new opinions. There are people who believe that it's perfectly acceptable to make a few tradeoffs if it can make the movie more interesting to watch.
I've never made a TAS (I've made a couple of attempts, though) but I've always said that when I get the time for it, I'd make a TAS of FF3j for NES. But I'm torn as to whether I should use a trick whereby you avoid battles by entering the menu and giving a potion to one of your team members. It saves a little bit of time compared to running away on the first move, but I personally think it's ugly.
At the very least, there's nothing wrong with the discussion on how to weigh entertainment and speed.
Exactly when was "shaving frames" *not* the focus of TASes in this site?
If anything, it's the opposite; it used to be about shaving frames, and is now slowly and carefully inching into a more balanced entity. These days there are lots more players than way back when, and with them came a lot of new opinions. There are people who believe that it's perfectly acceptable to make a few tradeoffs if it can make the movie more interesting to watch.
I thought I heard of more "entertainment tradeoffs" in the early days, when the videos were more of a novelty and people weren't such perfectionists. Now there are more tools to get everything perfect, so it's even more popular to shave frames. But people are also now choosing games that aren't as cool-looking to play perfectly, so that's why they have to make up other silly goals.
Omega wrote:
But I'm torn as to whether I should use a trick whereby you avoid battles by entering the menu and giving a potion to one of your team members. It saves a little bit of time compared to running away on the first move, but I personally think it's ugly.
Ugly? Avoiding random battles cannot be ugly, especially with such a funny method!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I think people are largely over looking the things that were not so good in the old days. This tends to be a strong factor in just about every aspect in life e.g. 50/60's were better compared to 80/90's. Normally this is what happens when diversity takes place over time.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Ugly? Avoiding random battles cannot be ugly, especially with such a funny method!
The problem is that no one other than the author knows why, and 80% of people don't care even if you told them. Entertainment above concept, right?
It only works if it is obvious just by looking that some battle was supposed to occur but didn't.
I don't care that they don't care! Not everything can or should be obvious.
Derakon wrote:
This is what explanations in the submission text are for. Same as e.g. missed shots or walking out of your way for luck manipulation.
Unfortunately, most people (especially the casual observer) base their judgment on the movie alone, some not even bothering to read the submission text or know how the game works in particular. I am one of the few who would (sometimes) prefer concept over entertainment, but that's the minority.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I prefer the old forum because I think there's too much frame shaving nowadays. People were less nitpicky about that back then, it was more about what was visually entertaining on the video. Now all people seem to care about is numbers. I don't know, I don't have the free time to spend hours testing if something saves a frame here or there. Also I got discouraged about that whole super mario land 2 emulator bug incident.
But that's about the people using the forum, not the forum itself...
About the forum especifically, the rating system sounds great but maybe it's overly complicated for something that's very subjective. I think the "technical rating" should be removed altogether and unify it into 1 rating system: "what did you think of this movie?" going from "boring" to "awesome!". It's (should be) all about entertaining, right? Just my suggestion.
Exactly when was "shaving frames" *not* the focus of TASes in this site?
As far as I can remember, and I have been here from the very beginning, maximal speed optimization has *always* been the focus. The very first attempts with an almost unusable Famtasia were focused on completing games as fast as possible, by using any means. When I submitted my first Rygar TAS like one million years ago, a few comments were already of the type "you could save a few frames by doing this and that". The goal has always been entertainment by speed, not at the cost of speed.
Why do some people talk as if this was a machinima video website in the past, and slowly converted to a TAS website?
Actually, my first intention was precisely to have this as a "machinima" website.
In case I guessed the meaning of that weird word wrong, I mean that I originally intended the site to be a collection of all kinds of weird gameplay videos that have been created by utilizing tools, without changing the actual games.
I think the "technical rating" should be removed altogether and unify it into 1 rating system: "what did you think of this movie?" going from "boring" to "awesome!". It's (should be) all about entertaining, right?
I agree with that.
While I think the original idea for technical rating was a good one, people don't use it like that. Instead they use the "how close to perfection you think this movie is" thing, and that's completely wrong. Technical quality of a movie is not something subjective, period.
I don't see the point of allowing "ignorant" people rate the technical quality of games they've never TASed. They will always rate your movie with lower technical ratings and then you can only think "well, just tell me only one f*cking place where I can save a single frame in my movie"...
So... Yes, I don't really have anything to say about the original topic. :P
You're just fucking stupid, everyone hates you, sorry to tell you the truth. no one likes you, you're someone pretentious and TASes only to be on speed game, but don't have any hope, you won't get there.
Technical quality of a movie is not something subjective, period.
If technical rating is not subjective, why is there a vote on it? Shouldn't we be able to take the first 'vote' and use that since there is no individual bias involved.
(I don't count it as a vote, if you only have one option.)
"Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home."
( Pratchett & Gaiman: Good Omens )
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Omega wrote:
But I'm torn as to whether I should use a trick whereby you avoid battles by entering the menu and giving a potion to one of your team members. It saves a little bit of time compared to running away on the first move, but I personally think it's ugly.
Ugly? Avoiding random battles cannot be ugly, especially with such a funny method!
I usually would agree, but in this case I think people might get really annoyed with such a strange concurrence for three to four hours of gameplay.
By the way, now that I think about it, I realize you're absolutely right. Perfectionism was not the main reason for the existence of this site. Morimoto's movies weren't optimized, even for what was known about tool-assisted speedrunning at the time, but they were close enough and that's what made them entertaining.
You're just fucking stupid, everyone hates you, sorry to tell you the truth. no one likes you, you're someone pretentious and TASes only to be on speed game, but don't have any hope, you won't get there.
While I think the original idea for technical rating was a good one, people don't use it like that. Instead they use the "how close to perfection you think this movie is" thing, and that's completely wrong. Technical quality of a movie is not something subjective, period.
Yes it is. There is no way to objectively gauge technical rating except for (rarely) one or two people per game, and even then it can be based on incorrect ideas or complete guesses.
After all, if you objectively rate a movie anything under 10, you should be announcing why the movie could be done faster, or even just making a new version yourself immediately.
Hell, let's remove the whole idea of objectivism by saying that if it was an objective matter, there wouldn't be an option to rate it in the first place. After all, objective would mean that it would be based on something other than an individual viewer's knowledge and ideals, so it might as well be calculated by a robot.
