Arguably the 14% run is a "non-glitched low%" (or is that 15%?). But from what Saturn was saying about the end of the run (I haven't yet watched the run myself), it sounds like he did use the glitch techs from the 6% run at the end, so I guess that's out.
Not quite.
The 6% run skips motherbrain. Saturn skips the zebitites, and fights MB. Yes, it is a non-glitched 14% run. If you want to get technical, he did use 2 small glitches: Zebitite skip and reverse crumble jump just be4 Botwoon, but those aren't really considered glitches, just abuse. =)
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
My SM-RBO
Current Project(s):
1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
Rather, it just depends on what one calls a glitch.
In both cases, Saturn passes through solid object, which the game doesn't normally want nor even allow the player to, so I guess that's technically a glitch. Torizo skip, on the other hand, is merely an engine abuse, because the game doesn't want the player to succeed, but fails short in the method. This is much like edge-of-ledge oversights in many platform games where you can propel yourself on a higher ground (that you can't normally jump to) by the means of absolute movement precision or using enemies as platforms.
However, the real major difference is that he has to fight all bosses, and the 6% run just glitches around them and tricks the game into thinking the player defeated them. One could say a 14% run is still playing by the game's rules, while the 6% run is setting your own.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Hello everyone, I thought I would stop by and weigh in my own opinions on SM's categorizing.
I was suprised to see the recent changes, and I didn't even know that the 6% was published. SM seems to be getting the most attention around here, its something like the Doom of TASvideos. I personally have enjoyed watching many of the unpublished runs, and I think they deserve to be given their own section. I see the breakdown of Metroid runs like this:
Goals---------------------------------------------->Sub-Categories
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Standard.........................................................................low%
(All main bosses killed)......................................................any%
.......................................................................................100%
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*NBMB.............................................................................low%
(All main bosses skipped...................................................any%
via major glitching)...........................................................100%
-------------------------------------------------------------
*Challenges.....................................................................Reverse Boss Order
(Semi-Arbitrary restrictions)..............................................Suitless
......................................................................................Other entertainment runs
---------
Now, we still have variations based on realtime/in-game orientation to consider (don't forget Redesign!). I think we should have SM runs sorted under categories of goals on the SNES page, listing various sub-category runs. Still, some of these sub-categories are more entertaining, or simply better suited to their goals. Therefore, we should have those runs be the "face" of the category, something first-timers can check out without sifting through piles of runs.
Now this is just my opinion, and I've been lurking for a while, without doing actual tasing myself. I'm not sure you guys really want to be creating all of the possible runs, or if they would be worth doing. I'm just throwing this out there as a guy who started looking through the forums, and to my suprise finding videos that weren't published, like NameSpoofer's entertainment run or Saturn's RBO.
And one does wonder, how healthy it really is to be watching the same game being run over, and over... o_O
Just as healthy as playing the same game over and over, which many people do. :)
In regard to your plot, NBMB and 100% are mutually exclusive goals (you can't glitch past certain bosses and still get all the items they unlock), unless by NBMB you just mean glitching through walls when feasible, while still getting all items. I guess that could work. NBMB low% and any% are the same, though, and there's no real difference between in-game and realtime runs for them either, except some different door entries and gratuitious lag abuse (amounting to no more than a couple seconds of meaningful difference).
I guess it's no much use dreaming (despite your username) of some ideal conditions on the site, becasue that's still extremely unlikely to happen.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
will metal fit a super metroid music video? or should i stay techno/electric style? gimme some feedback here or per pm please :)
(yes iam working on something with evil help from spoofer-> thx :D )
Ah, what I wouldn't do for an RBO category. =\
Tho, my recent RBO wouldn't be publishable due to the retarded mass amount of un-optimization. I would, however, jump on a new optimized RBO right away if a category were to open up for it. =S After the any% w/Cpadolf tho.
Saturn's RBO won't be published (unless he were to start a new 1), and I won't think it will be finished either. Methinks me might drop it for a newer, more insane RBO. =\
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
My SM-RBO
Current Project(s):
1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
In regard to your plot, NBMB and 100% are mutually exclusive goals (you can't glitch past certain bosses and still get all the items they unlock), unless by NBMB you just mean glitching through walls when feasible, while still getting all items. I guess that could work. NBMB low% and any% are the same, though, and there's no real difference between in-game and realtime runs for them either, except some different door entries and gratuitious lag abuse (amounting to no more than a couple seconds of meaningful difference).
Yeah, some of those are redundant. RBO is probably the one of the cooler alternate runs, as well as 14%. I liked Hero's and Cpadolf's any%, but do we really need to have both listed while not including the former runs? Though I can see how 14% and RBO can be arbitrary goals.
moozooh wrote:
I guess it's no much use dreaming (despite your username) of some ideal conditions on the site, becasue that's still extremely unlikely to happen.
saturn do you think 00:26 is possible with new tricks? techs etc?
As said just one post before your question, no it isn't. New tricks and max optimization could save, as Spoofer already guessed, around 10 sec in the early part of the run. And since the route is as optimal as it can be, there is nothing else you can do to catch up the other 50 sec missing until a 0:26 is reachable. Be realistic guys.
About the glitch-arguments regarding the 14% run, yes, it uses 2 small glitches (Zebetite skip and ghost through platform before Botwoon). Both are common techniques in every other run form nowadays (any%, 100%) though, making the 14% not different than this "legit" runs.
so if i find a trick saving 1 minute what will happen saturn? it "may" be possible with NEW tricks not just optimizing only... i mean really new trick like "omg bugged draygon 1 missile kill" etc
edit: nevermind what i wrote
i just say
Acheron86 wrote:
Any time I read one of Saturn's "this is impossible" sentences, I just mentally add "unless new tricks are found" and it all makes perfect sense.
Wow. As we can see, this is only possible with fully optimized luck manipulation to get every single refill drop from the lights. This is something I just didn't bother at this early part of my testrun.
The fight itself is exactly 4 seconds faster than my 2-round strategy, but due to the missing refills of the 2nd round, which you would probably have to get back at a later point, the total gain would probably be around 3 seconds in the end.
Good job, Kriole.
Wow. As we can see, this is only possible with fully optimized luck manipulation to get every single refill drop from the lights.
Actually, I found a pattern during my own tests of doing this (before getting distracted by something else >.>) where Phantoon drops two flames before opening his eye, without losing any time. This could, theoretically, allow for an energy pick up at best, or another missle refill.
I still have the SMV too. ^.^
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
My SM-RBO
Current Project(s):
1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
Ha ha, that was pretty amusing with the echoes! Confused echoes are confused. That'd be nice if, at all possible, that could be stuck in a run or something just for some aesthetic fun.
Wait, is this an actual glitch?
It looked like you just changed Samus's animation delay with a code or something before recording (Though I know heat + speed booster + no varia or grav will mess with the animation but haven't looked into it). And the echoes are stupid, but that's old news.
Anyways nothing interesting happens in the smv, everything interesting happened before it so I can't debug anything.
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
It actually worked fine on my SNES9x, using v1.43, anyway.
I don't know what you used, but if you can't get it to work, I'll make a little AVI of it and post it somewhere.
What if Samus didn't loose all her equipment at the start of the game? Well then Super Metroid would be a very short game indeed. I decided to do a run after using the reset glitch to get back to ceres for the lulz, the ingame completion time became 00:06:41.
Get!
I actually thought of pitching that as a legit run idea a couple of days ago, but I thought people would kind of jump at it and be all "No!" and such, so I just stayed silent about it.
Wow it is a huge pain to debug stuff without a debugger... Geiger's debugger won't play movies made in ninjutsu's snes9x, so I am currently using PAR codes to write in-game debug checks viewable with ninjutsu's memory watcher. x_x
I finally determined that something is causing the index for the load at 9085C3 to be too large. The catch is is that index is supposed to be Samus's speed counter (the thing that makes Samus blue when it hits 4). It looks like Samus's speed counter is jumping from 3 to 5, but then being reset to 4 before the frame ends. The catch to that is that I don't know of any way the speed counter can jump from 3 to 5, so I'm inclined to think something else is corrupting the value between the LDA $0B3E and TAX.
Then I finally realized that there's a JSL to a sound routine when blue suit starts that leaves a garbage value in A replacing the value of $0B3E (seriously. It's RIGHT THERE BEFORE the TAX. It's GUARANTEED to mess the value up when you hit blue suit speed. How did this glaring fact get past whoever programmed this?). Soooo.
Typically that usually leaves a 0 in place of the index, which is relatively harmless. It does the same thing (extra frames in that foot-down pose), but it only lasts 3 frames instead of the 129 frames in your video. Somehow, you had to have had 5 things in the sound queue for miscellaneous sounds (this is the garbage value that gets used instead of Samus's speed counter) waiting to be played.
::edit:: a bit of clarification. The tables are set up to be used with an index from 0 to 4 - the full range of Samus's speed counter. Even if the index of 0 is used, the 'garbage' data is still applicable data, and the only noticeable difference is a 3-frame delay where there's supposed to be a 1-frame delay. When 5 is used though, you get more... interesting garbage data (I don't even know what RAM offset 7E0303 is supposed to be used for, let alone what to expect it to be. In this case it ended up being 129). ::/edit::
And I'd like to assume that the clicking sounds from Beetoms draining your health were stacking up and call the case solved.
As for effects of the glitch... You get a garbage value for the animation delay as you've seen. You also get a garbage value in the low byte of Samus's speed counter (generally only the high-byte is important, it is typically 00 - 04, 04 = blue suit speed. In fact blue suit speed is 0402 or 0401). The low byte counts *down* instead of up though... when the low byte reaches 0 the high byte may go up by 1 and the low byte is reset. If the garbage value put in is 00 however, Samus's speed counter will decrease the next time the animation loops, and you will have to run through 256 animation loops before Samus's speed counter high byte will increase again. Or you can just stop running to clear the counter and start running fresh. This drop is NOT an expected, programmed drop though, and so it doesn't properly clear blue-suit status. Hence the confused echoes and blue suit graphics that disappear in the next room.
Sooo unfortunately there really doesn't look like there's any use for the glitch, but it's an interesting find (and also a chance to laugh at how ridiculous Nintendo's code can be).
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
