Use the (U) version of a ROM unless there is a good reason not to (as an example a shortcut/trick which only works in a different version, or superior music), or the version does not exist.
I dob't think there's any need to worry..
the music's the same.
the voice differences are too minor to me. you can live without the boss intros. X's voice isn't nearly as bad in game as it is in the cutscenes. with the actions performed in this run, both languages are equally annoying. and the dub's READY sounds better.
i don't think you're going to get away with it. and again, it's going to be a damn, damn shame, cause your work looks really good.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Let the movie speak for itself. It's his decision. Besides, it's not like PCSX rerecording has been finalized or anything.
The rules were in place mostly to prevent players from beating a published movie using trivial differences.
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
You seriously don't know the meaning of "not funny".
If you have nothing better to do, maybe it's a good time to take a long break from the computer, go outside, and socialize with people in real life. It seems like you need it.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
hahah... if you didn't find it funny, YOU are the one needing to get out more and meet REAL people. Unfortunately the real world is all about these "not funny" situations.
Now you should get back into the elevator. OH LOOK! Everybody turned left...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Ignoring the last half dozen posts, I decided it'd be a useful idea to do some testing for various things.
Firstly, getting the leg upgrade to perform the miniboss skip in split mushrooms stage actually turns out slower overall by about 200-400 frames. Right now I get the feeling I'm not going to find those frames elsewhere through using the leg upgrade, so I'll probably skip it after all, despite the fact I've already collected it.
Second, stock shots can be fired just as fast as normal buster shots, and all 4 can be on screen at once. You get the first 2 at 93 frames (the same as a normal charged shot without an arm upgrade, and presumably the charge time for a plasma shot), and the remaining 2 shots at 30 frame intervals after the initial 2.
If someone could point out a ton of frames, say, in excess of 400, (other than the split mushroom miniboss skip) that's guaranteed to be saved by having the leg upgrade, please do point them out as X looks better with the leg upgrade than without (although he always has really, so eh).
I'm not entirely sure on when I'll have web spidus' stage finished, but in theory it'll be within the next day.
Also, people like explosions, even if they're the cause of not really visible delay (in this case, 5 frames waiting for the gun animation to dissapear so I can climb a ladder), right ?
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Explosions kick ass. Especially considering that this is a first-of-a-kind movie, I'd go ahead and make frame sacrifices to increase the entertainment.
Firstly, getting the leg upgrade to perform the miniboss skip in split mushrooms stage actually turns out slower overall by about 200-400 frames. Right now I get the feeling I'm not going to find those frames elsewhere through using the leg upgrade, so I'll probably skip it after all, despite the fact I've already collected it.
That's bad news. The leg upgrade is quite useless (not to mention slow) save for the Mushroom skip. You could do the skip with the aid from the body parts, but picking that presents numerous problems, since the closest thing to a good route would be Spider-Owl-(Stingray?)-Beast-Dragoon to get the parts unless you can find a way to a) get a ride armor to the ledge where the capsule is or b) somehow glitch your way to the capsule. So far I have no knowledge how to pull either off, unfortunately.
The routes down sides would be that you need to fight more bosses without the recommended weapons and not having Rising Fire for Spider or Beast. While the body part would also save time in parts other than the Mushroom skip, the cost might be too much to pay. Also, getting the part itself probably takes more time than it takes to get the leg parts, so it's only a very slim possiblity that might work, if even that.
It's a bit of a shame that skip couldn't be used after all.
First off, why didn't anyone on SDA tell me about this topic? :-/
Just saw both runs, and they both have stuff that really impressed me and could be used for a future speed run. And some stuff that can't be used in a speed run, like that Owl battle.
Fractalfusion:
I know Satoryu asked you this already, but why did you pick Mushroom first? I'm pretty sure there is more benefit to fighting the midboss with the ryuuenjin (end of your first slash salvo, and when the boss is rising for a second time), than having a double jump for Dragoon's stage.
Also, why did you get hit by the first enemy? I didn't see any benefit to that.
I have to say the ladder climbing was impressive in Mushroom's stage.
Nice climb at the end of Cyber Peacock part 1.
To elaborate what Cremator said about charging up, if you charge up while in the air, then you can still dash when you hit the ground. You can look at my run (if you haven't already), if you want to see an example of this.
Wow my Stingray fight looks so bad in my SDA run, especially compared to yours :(
Atma:
Does jumping really low to the ground somehow take away the 6-frame firing cap? It looks that way, but I'm probably just imagining things.
Both runs:
Does it really save time to skip the armor in Magma Dragoon's stage? It looks impressive, but you have to climb up instead of just smashing through the rocks.
Anyways, good work guys. I'm eagerly awaiting more levels.
Does jumping really low to the ground somehow take away the 6-frame firing cap? It looks that way, but I'm probably just imagining things.
No, it's still there. I mostly only stay that low for the purpose of not actually overshooting the enemy, as for the first few frames of firing the bullet rises or falls as you do, unless you turn around after firing it.
Does it really save time to skip the armor in Magma Dragoon's stage? It looks impressive, but you have to climb up instead of just smashing through the rocks.
Indeed it does, by, at the very least, 100 frames. In realtime playing however, I'd probably suggest still using the ride armor on the basis that if you were to skip getting it, there's a fair possibility of screwing up and landing yourself more damage and stun time than if you'd just taken it.
Anyways, good work guys. I'm eagerly awaiting more levels.
In theory I'll have the next one up in a couple of hours :)
Thought of a couple more things.
FractalFusion:
How many frames does the game pause for when you jump slash with Zero?
Also, did you know that the second slash in Zero's combo does more damage than the first slash? I don't think doing 1-2, 1-2, 1-2, is faster than 1,1,1 due to how quickly you can cancel the slash in a TAS, but I figured it's worth mentioning.
Atma: Cremator is right, dash boots are useless.
Turns out that took way longer than I had planned. As usual. Good thing I TAS after work and not before it :P
Web Spidus
I was a little surprised to actually realize that there's a different damage set for things with a life bar in comparison to normal. A standard shot does 1, a half charged does 2, and a fully charged does 3 (with special weapons presumably doing a steady flow of 3 or above, I haven't got any weaknesses to test with :P). This would probably explain why it looked like a fully charged shot didn't do all that much damage in comparison to a half charged compared to normal situations.
I was going to try and do parallels with legs/no legs/stock/plasma to see which was best, but in the end I presume it'll just be way too much work to either redo everything multiple times, or manually sync all the input to work.
Oh well. Another stage gone, another pain in the ass stage to come.
FractalFusion: I noticed a couple of things that make it pretty obvious that you haven't seen my run, or at least you haven't seen it in a while.
There isn't much that can help you in it, since it's an old run, but it might give you some ideas.
http://speeddemosarchive.com/MegaManX4.html
Anyways, here is what you should know, if you don't feel like watching my run.
When you do the kuuenzan (the upgraded jump slash) with Zero, you can turn around to score extra hits. Turning around to get extra hits out of your slash is useful against the wall in Web Spider part 1, and Slash Beast's midboss.
Also, when Frost Walrus reaches the left wall and starts to stand up, you can hit him twice as he is transitioning from crawling to standing.
If you did Web Spider before Slash Beast, you would have been able to cancel your last set of slashes before Beast starts dashing into a Raijingeki (the lightning lance), which would have killed Beast.
Oh, for the colonel battle, test and see if you can make the first icicle take off half of his life. I swear I did that once, but I've never been able to reproduce the incident (I think it has something to do with him switching animations).
And yes, I know I'm being ridiculously picky and anal about this, but godammit I've played the shit out of this game. And I heard being picky and anal is rewarded on tasvideos ;)
Keep up the good work.
Quick question - Why is this the most popular MMX on PSX?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
yeah, this one sucks a bit less then the other PSX sequels.
But hey, Derakon... MMX2 wasn't bad! On the contrary... you had a bike and a different ride armor and you fight Zero and you get a shoryuken and there is that cool soundtrack.
So, things starts to get worse AFTER MMX2.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Oh, yeah... that's totally true, Alden. After MM2 it just got easier and crappier. I was referring to the X series only... but there seems to be a connection...?
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
I know Satoryu asked you this already, but why did you pick Mushroom first?
It was early on, and I took account of the fact that I can SDC the bug miniboss, that I get Kuuenbu/Kuuenzan from Split Mushroom, and that everyone loves to see Split Mushroom's stage beaten. I didn't expect to take the run further.
I think ground slash does 1 and Ryuenjin does 2 (but of course a hit delays for 5 frames). I can't tell if Ryuenjin does better or not.
mikwuyma wrote:
Also, why did you get hit by the first enemy? I didn't see any benefit to that.
Apologies. That was me not caring.
I only attempted to dodge the spike enemies at the third one, and succeeded, of course.
A similar thing happens for the first big enemy thing in Magma Dragoon's stage.
mikwuyma wrote:
Does it really save time to skip the armor in Magma Dragoon's stage?
Atma already answered, but I'll add that I didn't care about the time and only did it because it was impressive.
mikwuyma wrote:
How many frames does the game pause for when you jump slash with Zero?
5 frames.
mikwuyma wrote:
When you do the kuuenzan (the upgraded jump slash) with Zero, you can turn around to score extra hits. Turning around to get extra hits out of your slash is useful against the wall in Web Spider part 1, and Slash Beast's midboss.
Thanks. It seems strange that I would use the Kuuenzan turnaround to avoid extra hits (against bosses), yet I forget that I could use the Kuuenzan turnaround to inflict extra hits.
mikwuyma wrote:
Also, when Frost Walrus reaches the left wall and starts to stand up, you can hit him twice as he is transitioning from crawling to standing.
I looked at Frost Walrus for cues rather than his life bar, so I missed it because he had no reaction and I thought it was doing no damage.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that it is better to Ryuenjin away from him on the last few hits rather than toward him, to reduce unnecessary hits. I missed this as well.
mikwuyma wrote:
If you did Web Spider before Slash Beast, you would have been able to cancel your last set of slashes before Beast starts dashing into a Raijingeki (the lightning lance), which would have killed Beast.
Curiosity. I wanted to test the Shippuuga, to see if TAS power could make something out of it. Unfortunately, it is as useless as everyone says it is.
mikwuyma wrote:
Oh, for the colonel battle, test and see if you can make the first icicle take off half of his life. I swear I did that once, but I've never been able to reproduce the incident (I think it has something to do with him switching animations).
I don't know why a game could be so glitched as to do that, but I take your word for it. Do you mean that the same Hyouretsuzan did multiple hits on him when he should have been invincible?
The reason why I think tacking on a Ryuuenjin saves some time at the Split Mushroom midboss fight is because I kill the midboss in nearly the exact same amount of time in my speedrun (second time it rises).
I didn't even think about Ryuuenjining away from Frost Walrus.
About Colonel, you can hit him multiple times (I usually only hit him twice, but I know more hits is possible) when he switches between certain stances. For example, in my Zero run, I hit him twice right as he swings his sword for energy waves (standing to attacking), and another time when he dashes up against the wall (transitioning from dashing to standing). This might be related to hitting Frost Walrus twice, but I'm not 100% sure.
EDIT: The General's weakness is Shipuuga, maybe you can get a few hits on him?
DarkKobold: It's because X4 still follows conventional Mega Man format, you have to fight 8 bosses, and none of that boss level BS. Also, the game doesn't rely on stupid one-hit kills for challenge like X5 and X6.
Other random people in the topic: Last time I checked, this was the X4 topic, not the bitch about when the series started to decline topic :-/.
More minor testing and some thoughts, although no actual progress as of yet.
On a test against slash beast(leo), I decided to find out the boss damage caused by the stock/plasma shots. A stock shot is equivalent to a normal charged shot damage wise, as it does 3. A plasma, I'm not entirely sure about, since I had varied results on how many shots it took to kill him. I averaged somewhere in the range of 12-14 shots to , usually coming closer to 14. The plasma residue always seemed to get another hit in of one damage , also causing him to go invulnerable for however many frames his period is.
I'm thinking (without actually having done any testing) that it may actually be ever so slightly faster to go without the ride armor in storm owls stage, but I don't know if I'll be able to kill things as smoothly by doing so, given the ride armor has a homing charged shot.
Another is that since colonel still requires 16 hits even with the frost tower, perhaps it might be reasonably possible to down him relatively fast using the stock shot (although not very likely, it'd probably just bring down the overall shot requirement by a few notches instead of being just as fast).
This would allow me to do a different stage instead, as soul body would cover the no-plasma issue for frost walrus' stage (it dominates the ice, and you can still fire normally while using it), but at the same time would slightly increase the amount of time that it takes to kill the split mushroom miniboss without frost tower/aiming laser.
And that's my random musings for the night.
I'm thinking (without actually having done any testing) that it may actually be ever so slightly faster to go without the ride armor in storm owls stage, but I don't know if I'll be able to kill things as smoothly by doing so, given the ride armor has a homing charged shot.
I'm skeptical about this, I don't think it's possible to dodge the missile-shooting bots or the turrets because they're placed in really awkward locations.
Atma wrote:
Another is that since colonel still requires 16 hits even with the frost tower, perhaps it might be reasonably possible to down him relatively fast using the stock shot (although not very likely, it'd probably just bring down the overall shot requirement by a few notches instead of being just as fast).
You do realize that the glitch I was telling Fractal Fusion about also applies to frost tower. I'll admit, it is harder to apply the glitch with X, but it's still very possible.
Atma wrote:
This would allow me to do a different stage instead, as soul body would cover the no-plasma issue for frost walrus' stage (it dominates the ice, and you can still fire normally while using it), but at the same time would slightly increase the amount of time that it takes to kill the split mushroom miniboss without frost tower/aiming laser.
Try more like increase the amount of time it takes to kill the Split Mushroom miniboss by at least 10 seconds (IIRC). It's actually not very hard to get through Walrus part 2 without Soul Body. Well placed fully charged shots blow through the ice walls quickly, and it doesn't take a long time to charge the buster.
Granted, I'm talking from a speedrunner's perspective, but considering there is a 6-frame firing cap, I don't think a TAS is much different in this case.
