Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 144
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
As good as that run is, there seems to still be room for improvement. I was only able to watch up to Varia but he missed a couple of damage boosts, which is good for a couple of seconds, I'd wager.
Right, so yeah, not too much blabbing.
I guarantee that you will be stunned and shocked by my route choice, you will not know where I go next and why I do.
Throughout the run, I got better, and kept feeling the need to start over, but didn't have enough motivation to do so, and when this happens, a run gets dropped. So there is somebody very awesome to thank here for getting on my back to complete this run: Kriole.
He also did the Phantoon fight simply because I was too under motivated and disgusted with it, so thank you very much Kriole.
Next person is Cpadolf. To keep it summed up: he taught me how to TAS from day 1 and has put up with me ever since, which is simply amazing. I know I wouldn't be able to stand myself for a task like that.
Last 2 people are Saturn and Kejardon: I had asked Saturn for help with the KO grab from Ridley, and he had to re-do it 3-4 times due to energy/ammo management earlier in the fight, and I finally ended up getting one of my own that I was satisfied with.
This run would def not be as shocking if not for Kejardon helping me with.. well, you should all know. =)
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1864246507/SpooferRBO%21v1.smv
*I got very lazy and that is why the end is so ugly and entertainless/unoptimized.*
I think that is it.
Enjoy?
MAKE SURE YOU GUYS CHECK OUT M2K2 HACK SECTION CLIFFHANGER TO SEE WHAT ME AND KRIOLE ARE BREWIN!
Thread: http://forum.metroid2002.com/index.php/topic,7376.msg223431.html#msg223431
SMV: http://forum.metroid2002.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7376.0;attach=5585
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
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*reads your post again after watching*
Oh, so it DID improve after some time passed. At some point while it was playing, I was really enjoying the movie with how optimized it seemed to be. It was nice to see the unpowered wrecked ship in all its glory. There was another specific event I especially noticed, but now I can't recall what. What was the time obtained in the other recent RBO movie?
I'm sure you had a reason, but it was very odd seeing that only one of the missile expansions was obtained in the secret area early on.
I'm sure you had a reason, but it was very odd seeing that only one of the missile expansions was obtained in the secret area early on.
Yes, I did have a reason at that point in time, but I cannot tell you now because I do not remember why. I should have taken that expansion instead of the one under the crumble bridge.
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
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Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I might have a slight time saver for the new any% run. In the pillar room in LN, it might be possible to blue suit through enough of the pillars to obsolete the spark method.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1214188087/pillars.smv
Here is a method I made which gets through most of the pillars and uses a PB to clear the last 2. Unfortunately the PB does not clear the 'half' pillar at the end which means that a super short charge cannot be performed there.
If... someone can manage to do the CWJ with a higher speed, you could walljump off the second pillar instead of the first which would put samus far enough into the room that a PB would clear the 'half' pillar also.
This method would be much faster than the spark method (no cooldown, and no need to reverse direction to charge another spark). It also saves a huge amount of energy, which is vital for the any% route.
ot - I am also thinking of a possibility for an entirely new any% route, but I need to figure out a few more kinks before it is feasible.
I tried that method some time ago as a part of the testing for a 14% route (there are major energy concerns there at that point as well), but was stalled by the first cwj. Fyi, I tried doing it off the second pillar and at a higher speed (which was the reason for my roadblock). I'm positive it will be faster at least for that route simply because it allows concerving the energy for the rising acid room shinespark a bit later.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Yeah I remember thinking of this couple of times, but never testing it I'm used to my ideas not working so.. I think if you could get more speed and make it from the second pillar like moozooh said, you could make it but I don't know where do you get the speed from, going to the room left would only make it longer to set up...
Also, I don't think anyone has tested that past-WS skree room strategy left from missile lake I was talking once, without speed boots it's said that you'll hit the thing coming from the roof but with speed boots could it be used in 100% run? You can shoot the skree from the door and by the time you CWJ from the lowest step you can probably collect the pickup, shoot the floor in air, dive in and fall free to the door.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
The problem is not getting more speed. If you look at the smv I posted, I could have held the run button for much longer. The issue is that once your speed is too high, a CWJ becomes damn near impossible. I was thinking that if the right positioning was somehow found, the CWJ would be possible even with the much higher speed.
As for your skree room idea, I am not sure if I exactly follow. Do you mind posting a picture or something of where you are talking about.
The problem is not getting more speed. If you look at the smv I posted, I could have held the run button for much longer. The issue is that once your speed is too high, a CWJ becomes damn near impossible. I was thinking that if the right positioning was somehow found, the CWJ would be possible even with the much higher speed.
Even if you reached a speed of 2.32xxx, you'd have to start running from the room before, which definately is out of question. I managed to get a speed of 2.08192, which gives the lowest possible initial jump height. And no, it didn't work.
Weren't you working on a Speed 14% run, NameSpoofer? What happened to that? (Or am I doing that thing where I remember things incorrectly?)
Yes, as Cpadolf said, I dropped it when I found some shortcuts via x-ray abuse for the RBO.
Another reason was that it is very bad, 48.87(ouch) on Ceres I believe. That should give you an idea.
I might take another shot at the 14% SB run if I can find a partner to do it with, much funner to do a run with somebody and it keeps me focused and motivated. Probably better now anyways now that I actually know what I'm doing. =o
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
My SM-RBO
Current Project(s):
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While we're here, has anyone researched the max speed at which CWJ is still possible?
It seems to be 2.36864, anyone feel free to get it with 2.40960 :)
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1830213508/HighSpeedCWJ.smv
EDIT: Also Booya
The setup is of course not optimal here (you don't need to be that far back), but the jump needs to be extremely precise to work (margin of error is about 1/10th of a pixel or so). It might also be possible to pass through the last pillar (not counting the half one) with the bluesuit.
Nice entertainment-run, NameSpoofer. Good route choice, solid boss strategies, and some really cool tricks with the X-Ray climb. The final time is 31,26, so even without fighting Crocomire, getting a sub 30 would be pretty close here (but should still be possible with enough optimization, even without the X-Ray climb).
Regarding the Pillar room, nice idea, hero. I compared Cpadolf's method with all the needed setup delays, and it is still ~74 in-game frames slower (and even more realtime frames due to PB-lag) compared to a regular pillar-shinespark with the reverse charge in the end. With good energy management, I doubt it would be worth to skip that shinespark.
And no, there is no way I can think of to break the last full pillar with a blue suit, even if you would manage the CWJ at a much higher speed. The last pillar's position is just too high, and not reachable after a morphball bounce no matter what speed you would have.
hero of the day wrote:
I am also thinking of a possibility for an entirely new any% route, but I need to figure out a few more kinks before it is feasible.
Let me guess: You want to delay Kraid's Lair until after Norfair to pass it faster with Speed Booster, right?
That's the only route change I can think of that could be interesting for the realtime-oriented any%. But given the fact that you come empty in both, health and ammo after WS, there is pretty much no way to fast-pace through Norfair without some serious delays for refilling, especially when you will have one E-Tank less for the Norfair trip. The only option when delaying Kraid would be to take the detour to get the HJ-Boots E-Tank, and this would actually end up pretty exactly same fast (+/- 30 frames) in the end. I did a rough test for this a couple of months ago to find out. Even then, the Kraid first route has a huge advantage because you can refill alot of Supers from the mini Kraid 2 times, which are very important for Norfair.
If you think of a completely different route change though, would you mind to give more details about it? I'm pretty sure I could help you with some of the stuff that needs to be tested with it.
And no, there is no way I can think of to break the last full pillar with a blue suit, even if you would manage the CWJ at a much higher speed. The last pillar's position is just too high, and not reachable after a morphball bounce no matter what speed you would have.
Tada!
Due to the tremendous amounts of lag I doubt this new strategy through the room would be of any help in a realtime oriented run though.
-
Edit: Woo now I feel cool! Got links in my sig and shit!
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
My SM-RBO
Current Project(s):
1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Cpadolf,
Nicely done. I was starting to think that that tech would not be possible. Looks pretty smooth now.
Tonski,
I don't think that would would be any faster than simply running up closer to the hole and jumping down. The speed at which you CWJ off the edge is pretty low, and generally arm pumping can compensate for the time lost from stopping and landing.
Saturn,
You are pretty much correct. After reviewing how much time Cpadolf saved in kraid's lair with the speed booster (even more if you include the new kriole tech), it seemed like a logical choice. My idea was that the spazer should somehow be skipped, and Samus should go straight to norfair after getting the gravity suit. When in norfair, the ice beam is not collected early. It is saved for the trip out of norfair, which saves time due to having the speed booster for it. Anywho, on the way to collecting the speed booster, a visit to the pipe bugs can fully replenish both the energy and super missiles. I feel that the pipebug detour will be very minimal with good luck manipulation. After getting the speed booster, collect the missile pack and wave beam like normal and head down the LN. Now since there is 1 less etank, energy must be saved somehow (thanks to cpadolf the pillar spark is no longer needed) Saves a ton of energy. When Samus gets to the kago spike room, the PB pack can be collected with very little in-game and real time loses. On the way to ridley, you just need to pick up a couple Pb's and with 10 PB wave combos, that knocks off 12,000 of Ridley's hp the last 6,000 is owned by super missiles. Even with the realtime lag caused by the wave combo, I still think it would be marginally faster than using charged/spazer/ice/wave shots. Leave LN like normal and get the ice beam on the way. Go and kill kraid and get his etank. The rest of the maridia route would pretty much be the same. The only thing left to figure out is how to take care of mother brain. Without the spazer, it takes 40 more charged shots to kill her. If you collect the plasma it takes 40 less shots to kill her, but the plasma detour is ungodly long. Another possibility is to somehow refill the Pb's and then use a wave beam combo on her, but even that would not be enough for 18,000 hp. I cannot think of a good solution. Everything up until mother brain would work perfectly.
When facing Ridley, you have 0 power bombs, unless you refill with extreme delay, and with that pack you only have 5. Thus only causing 6000 damage. The damage difference between a powerbombshield and a charged spazer/wave/ice is not that huge, with about 160 frames for the powerbombshield (120 for charging, about 40 for the shots to connect and realtime lag) it only causes 7,5 damage/frame, whereas spazer/wave/ice does 5 damage/frame.
Also, when facing motherbrain you have to add a pausescreen to turn off ice for the powerbombshields, unless you use power bombs to kill metroids which then leaves you with close to 0 power bombs. Plus the fact that the powerbombshields probably need alot more time to connect, since not all 4 of them can hit at all time (MB's body is in the way for the one coming from the lower left). Thus, this new route is extremely sketchy, given the fact that I and Taco have already been toying around with LN with only 200 energy, the delays done there are about as big as the savings on Kraid Lair with SB. Even if it IS faster, the delays from refilling will make up for the lost super missiles from mini-kraid.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Yeah I realize that MB would be reason why the route does not work perfectly. The only way it would work is if you could get into tourian with a full 10 power bombs.
As for ridley, I think that using the PB wave combo saves more time than you give credit for.
160x10=1600/60 is 26.5 seconds plus 3.5 more seconds to kill with 10 super missiles. The total fight is around 30 seconds long.
Using the charge/wave/ice/spazer is takes 40 shots at exactly 1 second a shot. Including the 10 super missiles the fight would be about 44 seconds long.
That is a 14 second difference right there. Now getting to ridley with 10 power bombs is not much of a delay. At most you would need to collect is 5, but it should actually be less than that. I estimate 3. The eye door room would only require a 2-3 second delay to fully fill all the power bombs and super missiles.
If you could get to MB with 10 power bombs (seems pretty difficult), then the loss of time in the fight would be pretty minimal. Doing 900 damage every 120 frames would cut her HP in half within 20 seconds. The last 9,000 hp would take 50 seconds using charged/wave/ice shots. The net loss would be 10 seconds.
The gain from ridley pretty much cancels out the loss from MB. The time spent getting the spazer is about 20 seconds longer than the time spent getting the LN power bomb pack. So the route is not completely insane, it just requires that the Power bombs be replenished before tourian.
mother brain really IS an evil overlord, thwarting entertaining routes.
I've always preferred the realtime-route, it's risky, offers enough situations not possible in regular play, and the route looks like you are just tearing through the game as you see fit, not being hindered by backtracking, detours or intended sequence. Your new ideas look intriguing, screwing up the boss order even more.
And it's fastest in both real-time and ingame time just until mother brain comes along and ruins everything.
Yeah I realize that MB would be reason why the route does not work perfectly. The only way it would work is if you could get into tourian with a full 10 power bombs.
As for ridley, I think that using the PB wave combo saves more time than you give credit for.
160x10=1600/60 is 26.5 seconds plus 3.5 more seconds to kill with 10 super missiles. The total fight is around 30 seconds long.
Using the charge/wave/ice/spazer is takes 40 shots at exactly 1 second a shot. Including the 10 super missiles the fight would be about 44 seconds long.
That is a 14 second difference right there. Now getting to ridley with 10 power bombs is not much of a delay. At most you would need to collect is 5, but it should actually be less than that. I estimate 3. The eye door room would only require a 2-3 second delay to fully fill all the power bombs and super missiles.
If you could get to MB with 10 power bombs (seems pretty difficult), then the loss of time in the fight would be pretty minimal. Doing 900 damage every 120 frames would cut her HP in half within 20 seconds. The last 9,000 hp would take 50 seconds using charged/wave/ice shots. The net loss would be 10 seconds.
The gain from ridley pretty much cancels out the loss from MB. The time spent getting the spazer is about 20 seconds longer than the time spent getting the LN power bomb pack. So the route is not completely insane, it just requires that the Power bombs be replenished before tourian.
Pause screen of doom !? How will you fire off shields?? Took that into consideration?
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
My SM-RBO
Current Project(s):
1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
