This run focus on ENTERTAINMENT , speed is not a priority here. I tried to make a lot of variations of combos and never repeating the same strategy at any stage. I choose yoshi again, because it's one of my favorite characthers, has an excelent combo potential and is the funniest characther in game.
Stage 1 - Link: Every hit besides the egg is a combo, used the wall a lot to make it entertaining, the last hit was used for a more entertaining finish even notconnecting perfectly.
Stage 2 - Yoshi team : I tried to make this as entertaining as it could be, wasn't a fast completion but it sure was entertaining, a variation of items can be used here because i have the time required for them to appear.
Stage 3 - Fox : Average yoshi combo, although it doesn't look like, every hit conects, fox has already reached the ground at the DAIR so he cannot tech out, you can tell by his upwards spinning animation. Thinking of the perfect combo to kill him entertainingly is hard because of the lack of walls in the stage, the distance to the edge , and the fact that fox is a mid weight characther, being harder to combo with yoshi. Glad this turned out well. ( i didn't use airwing because they take about 15 seconds to appear and most times shoots at the wrong direction.)
Stage 4 : Mario Bros : A few hits in the beggining just to get everything in position, after the blomb explodes every hit connects on both brothers. IMO best looking combo.
Stage 5: Pikachu : Yoshi doesn't have much potential against medium - low weighted characthers, used venosaur to make the combo more entertaining and not having to finish it quicker, every hit connects.
Stage 6: DK : it's impossible to hit a 0 to death on giant DK using yoshi, so i decided to show the beastly damage per sec power yoshi has. Since DK is insanely heavy, the UAIR juggle can be repated very long while still connecting.
Stage 7: Kirby team : there aren't much ways of finishing off kirbys, the coolest way is to spike them to death, so i prefered using it. Added a shield breaker and manipulated link kirby suicide just for fun :P
Stage 8: Samus : This fight was already quite entertaining in my last TAS, did a few modifications at the beginning and spiked her to death , ping pong with lava was short but cool IMO.
Stage 9: Metal Mario : I prefered to keep the egg strategy. I could have also gotten him to 300% and then finishing him off as usual, but that was already done at giant DK, Metal Mario isn't much of a fun fight if u ask me, the eggs is the best way to kill him while still keeping some of entertainment IMO.
Stage 10: Polygon team: Made it less repetitive and used most items as i could. Pretty entertaining overall.
Final Stage: I used a diferent way of manipulating the Hand's move at the beggining which i couldn't get to work in the speedrun, that allowed me to parry the crush and keep going on with the hits. There really is no way more entertaining than that to kill the hand off, still it's a cool way.
Bonus Stages: Completed as everyone requested, since i'm not going to the fastest time there's no reason to skip them now.
I hope this run is better seen by the sight of the expectators than the last run, because it trully is more entertaining than pure speed.
mmbossman: This movie demonstates a good superplay of this game; it shows off funny and interesting fights while still maintaining a quick tempo. It is clear that this is a tool-assisted movie to a normal viewer, and viewer feedback has been extremely positive. As such, I am accepting this for publication as a "playaround" type movie. Future runs will be judged by the entertainment value and mastery of the game, rather than the final completion time.
Joined: 3/14/2008
Posts: 152
Location: United Kingdom
bkDJ wrote:
re people making an encode that might be published for this game: I understand why you might not want to crop the image so that the image is untampered or whatever (but really is all that black necessary) however PLEASE use video settings that are true to the N64, like Glide64 Napalm with "read every frame" on. That way more special effects work (like the transparent end-level scoresheet)
I have been experimenting with plugins for ssb on my laptop, and found jabo 1.6 emulates it best, closely followed by rice, then jabo 1.5.
Probably just my video card (integrated intel x3100) but Glide 64 Napalm is probably the worst of all i've tried, looking really weird, and getting error messages popping up every few seconds.
Ah, this is what I am looking for in a 1p run. I don't really care if the other one is published or not, but I say this one should be published. Yes vote!
I would really like to see a multiplayer playaround though.
EDIT: Yes, Glide64 is problematic with low end video cards. It works ok on the integrated graphics on my laptop for the most part, except every time it is run there is an error message of some graphics mode that's unsupported and Paper Mario always causes video exceptions and ends up crashing. It looks great with most games (especially Paper Mario if it didn't cause those background errors).
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Much much much much much much much much better!
Meh vote.
I can't improve upon this message.
:D
I'd like to see the credits completed, definitely. That'd be good too (maybe as an updated submission file?)
Though as it is, I actually had to laugh at some parts. The home-run batting for the last Yoshi was great.
Probably just my video card (integrated intel x3100) but Glide 64 Napalm is probably the worst of all i've tried
The encode I made for blaze's other ssb submission used glide64 on a laptop. Though my graphics card isn't integrated, ouch. Anyway, it seems jabo 1.6 can do a fine job itself if you go to the advanced tab and put a check next to "copy framebuffer to RDRAM." (Napalm does this at real-time speeds, jabo does it slowly so I'd recommend only turning it on for capturing, not watching.)
..oh, and my favorite move in the run was the bat/spike combo for the final kirby.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
bkDJ wrote:
Anyway, it seems jabo 1.6 can do a fine job itself if you go to the advanced tab and put a check next to "copy framebuffer to RDRAM." (Napalm does this at real-time speeds, jabo does it slowly so I'd recommend only turning it on for capturing, not watching.)
Thanks for this information. I spent an hour or so looking for a plugin that had full support but couldn't find one (I managed to get shields looking okay in Rice though, somehow). I didn't have Napalm though, so I'll take a look and use that if this is accepted.
Edit: Okay Napalm doesn't work for me. Mupen shrinks to a tiny 20x20 box and won't do anything.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
I'm voting No.
I preferred the other run. I think a "fastest" 1 player (as previously submitted), and a multiplayer playaround would make the best runs.
Why publish a slow run through of the extremely limiting classic mode when you could make the much more entertaining multiplayer free for all that many have mentioned?
Most of these comments are directed towards the community's voiced opinions and not towards Blaze's efforts. I appreciate the fact the Blaze has put together two high quality runs to attempt to get this game published, but it seems I disagree on the opinion of what should be published compared to many members of this community.
The stuff done with items was interesting at times. I guess what doesn't really impress me is the simplicity of comboing by one player in this game (especially perhaps with the limitation of using Yoshi).
EDITED OUT A BUNCH OF CONTROVERSIAL STUFF
I don't support this category for a run, and I wasn't really impressed with this run's "entertainment through speed tradeoffs" as compared to the previous run which aimed purely for speed.
The run was somewhat entertaining and somewhat fast, which to me does not make it a publishable "playaround" movie.
As I said, why publish a slow run through of the extremely limiting classic mode when you could make the much more entertaining multiplayer free for all?
As I said, why publish a slow run through of the extremely limiting classic mode when you could make the much more entertaining multiplayer free for all?
I briefly tried out a concept of 1p vs 2p demonstration for Street Fighter. It quickly became evident that I could not do it in a way that could satisfy both an expert of the game and a random viewer. Multiplayer free for all would definitley need to use four players and somehow be able to make every player feel independent of each other. If anyone wants to do it then I hope they actually try to plan it out first by writing ideas down and critizing what they're actually doing; rather than diving into it, doing a bunch of random shit and praying that it will get accepted. As it will end up being "Why would someone behave like this, or do that during a match", or will most likely not be any different or exciting from watching a competitive match on YouTube.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I also liked this one so I am going to vote yes. But I certainly would not mind if your other submission would be accepted as well.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
If anyone wants to do it then I hope they actually try to plan it out first by writing ideas down and critizing what they're actually doing; rather than diving into it, doing a bunch of random shit and praying that it will get accepted.
Yes!
Personally I wouldn't mind three categories: time, entertainment 1p adventure, entertainment 4p (preferably with SRAM and 3 mathces with all twelve characters as mentioned before: Hmm... Kirby Pikachu Ness Jigglypuff, Falcon Link Fox Samus, Mario Luigi Yoshi DK? First one would be a float fest :)
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 19
Location: Brazil - Rio de Janeiro
Kirkq wrote:
I've seen many SSB64 tournament videos, and most competitive players can pull off combos like those in the Link and Fox fights fairly commonly. Seeing combos people do in tournaments accomplished tool assisted doesn't really excite me much.
The combos used cannot be pulled out in a tournament fight, it's nearly impossible for a human to connect every hit in the DJC based combos and most attacks hit just a few frames before the enemy recovers, so it's not executable in a tournament match.
Pardon me, Kirkq, but I have a bone or two to pick. :)
Kirkq wrote:
I preferred the other run. I think a "fastest" 1 player (as previously submitted)
As compared to the previous run
Samus - Basically same thing done in the previous run.
Metal Mario - Same thing.
Race to the Finish - Same thing.
Master Hand - Worse than previous run.
I don't support this category for a run, and I wasn't really impressed with this run's "entertainment through speed tradeoffs" as compared to the previous run which aimed purely for speed.
Forgive the mass of quoting; it's only to make a point. Why did you compare this so much to the other run? I'm genuinely curious, is all--would you have enjoyed this run if the previous "speed run" wasn't submitted? Or would you still hold it to the high standard?
The stuff done with items was interesting at times. I guess what doesn't really impress me is the simplicity of comboing by one player in this game (especially perhaps with the limitation of using Yoshi). I've seen many SSB64 tournament videos, and most competitive players can pull off combos like those in the Link and Fox fights fairly commonly. Seeing combos people do in tournaments accomplished tool assisted doesn't really excite me much.
Blaze already addressed this but I want to add (since you addressed your comments at people who complained about the first run) that the main complaint about the runs by other forumgoers is that it's not impressive. You're confusing me a bit by being anti-tournament-moves but pro-speed, when they're the same thing in this game. Besides the point Blaze made that a ton of this stuff is not doable in tournaments, the first video was much closer to tournament strategy for Yoshi (all about that DAIR/NAIR/FAIR). It is faster but you don't like tournament stuff? I guess it's okay if a run uses un-interesting techniques if it's only to beat it as fast as humanly possible? That's fine if you're impressed by that, but you should understand why many of us weren't.
As I said, why publish a slow run through of the extremely limiting classic mode when you could make the much more entertaining multiplayer free for all?
I can't really add to what AKA said much. I agree with him fully--it's extremely difficult to make that sort of run believable, because the premise is that multiple people are playing, but it's less impressive manipulating characters if you have full control over them already. Getting the computer to do what you want makes for a more impressive-looking TAS for your average viewer (because the sense of "wow!" is much less diminished if you can see another player is walking into the attacks).
Of course I also like antdgar's movies which use players, but it'd be hard to make a good TAS of unbreakable combos that last long enough to make them worth publishing. The best would be a montage of short combos (like watching every one of antdgar's 10-20 sec. combos), but that's not something that can be published, is it?
Pardon the long post, I have no problems with your opinion--I'm merely interested in your response.
From what I gather this goal of this run was to please the people who complained of repetitiveness in the previous run.
Acheron86 wrote:
would you have enjoyed this run if the previous "speed run" wasn't submitted?
The reason I'm comparing it the the previous run so much is that when I view this run, the entertainment it provides beyond the other run is really not that much more to me than beating it as fast as possible. The excitement of seeing the previous run beaten as fast as possible was not made up for by the somewhat more "entertainment" provided in this run in my eyes. So, yes, I'm using the previous run as quite a harsh standard.
This run provides okay entertainment, but I'd expect more entertainment to make it publishable, especially after (all but) rejecting the previous submission.
Probably almost half of this run had much of the same appearance as the previous run, which is why I'm somewhat "not in agreement" with this run being published over the other one.
Acheron86 wrote:
You're confusing me a bit by being anti-tournament-moves but pro-speed, when they're the same thing in this game.
Perhaps the tournament reference wasn't the best. I guess all I was trying to say is chaining hits together really doesn't really give me the "tool-assisted feel" from the run, because that is mostly what you see in unassisted play from high level players or perhaps my thought is better explained through training mode combos where the opponent doesn't DI. Perhaps this is somewhat unsubstantiated, I feel more strongly about the previous points in this post.
Acheron86 wrote:
would you have enjoyed this run if the previous "speed run" wasn't submitted?
The reason I'm comparing it the the previous run so much is that when I view this run, the entertainment it provides beyond the other run is really not that much more to me than beating it as fast as possible. The excitement of seeing the previous run beaten as fast as possible was not made up for by the somewhat more "entertainment" provided in this run in my eyes. So, yes, I'm using the previous run as quite a harsh standard.
This run provides okay entertainment, but I'd expect more entertainment to make it publishable, especially after (all but) rejecting the previous submission.
Probably almost half of this run had much of the same appearance as the previous run, which is why I'm somewhat "not in agreement" with this run being published over the other one.
Acheron86 wrote:
Getting the computer to do what you want makes for a more impressive-looking TAS for your average viewer
I can agree with this point. Perhaps 1 player vs 3 computers would provide more entertainment? I just don't feel that this run showcased the amount of entertainment that could be provided by a superplay of this game.
I enjoyed this 1 vs 3 by antdgar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otagizR3zk
Also, another thing definitely missing in this run is taunt cancelling.
(See 1:10) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXIFPMb_Rlk&feature=related
Regardless of what I have to say, at this point it appears this run is liked much more than the other and it will probably be published.
Thanks, I understand where you're coming from better now. Can't say I agree but it makes sense at least. :)
I watched the antdgar 1v3. That's exactly the kind of thing I would like to see in a versus mode TAS! Thanks for the link.
Watched, enjoyed, voted yes. Would probably be better if more/different items were used (2x beam sword is slightly wasteful in entertainment, though it is basically the best offensive item).
Bat->Spike was good, setting the Mario Bros up for bomb was good, the bat-stance at end of team was good...
I think pacifist would've been better for Metal Mario, I'll go try and see if what I remember doing to manipulate it works on V. Hard.
[offtopic]
There are a couple of debug levels left in the game, and you can play on Race to the Finish in VS mode with a simple GS code- and it is possible to KO through the walls there, though not reliably until 600, not guarantably on 999 weak hits. Fun times.
[/offtopic]
On another note, though Master Hand should be slower with any other character due to the Million Billion Kicks' (yoshi d-air) unreasonable damage potential, a light character might be able to get through RttF faster by being hit properly from the polygons, but this is an entertainment run, and Yoshi has sufficient variety.
edit: Well, M. Mario will kill himself, though he's not as much of a dummy as in easier modes (go fig)- this time, he stayed away mostly and only died when he down-specialed and floated off the edge after me. But it did take less than 30 seconds.
I did like the Kirby+Pikachu thing- the problem with that and falcon/yoshi is that you have a do-nothing player instead of a CP.
I liked the team fight, and I didn't know about the grab+thunder trick before, and the teamwork was nice and cleanly executed.
edit: comments on Blaze's youtubed TASes, not the run under consideration in this thread. Argh?
This team fight was highly entertaining. Unfortunately, a run like this would be extremely difficult to judge compared to other runs for entertainment as mentioned.
The team combos are also awesome.
nice windows live popup :D
Anyway, it was entertaining (I chuckled at Ness trying to absorb the egg) but the star finish made it seem slower than it was IMO.
nice windows live popup :D
Anyway, it was entertaining (I chuckled at Ness trying to absorb the egg) but the star finish made it seem slower than it was IMO.
